poly carbinate enclosure material

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 24th, '12, 00:03

Is anyone familiar with this stuff? From what I gather, it's kind of like a thin piece of plexiglass, and, is fastened with zippers to attach to C channel which is secured to the boat and framework of the tower. I don't know much about it, but, alot of the 50' boats in S.Texas are using it, and, loving it. It's supposed to last 9 or 10 years in direct sun light...that's about all that I know. Any comments are very much appreciated.
John.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '12, 08:51

I have a conventional U shape window in front of my enclosure.ihave tried every product on the market,
Ezcy,essenglass,stratoglass, every year they become distorted or scratch from rolling up ,believe me my canvas guy is a good friend.last year he turn me on to this new product . He had to put in a Contour channel around the top of bridge ,there are no snaps or fasteners and the zippers are hidden looks real nice perfect contour . Front window is like looking out quality widow in a house. I cannot take photo boat is under wrap and I was going to post this subject in the spring.i design a real nice feature the entire window hinges back and zippers to cross bar under top or I can unzipper and remove from inside and stow in v-berth.

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jan 24th, '12, 10:23

I had polycarbonite on my B31 for 7 years and LOVED it. Crystal clear and cleaned up easily. I don't know about it cracking due to rolling as when I had it made, I did the center U a little different that most -- I had Snaps put on the U and on the underneath of the hardtop. Instead of rolling it up, i used the canvas at teh top of the U as a hinge and snapped the U onto the top perfectly parallel to the top.
Note, I did have a canvas vent that unzipped and rolled up above that canvas U, so on days where I wanted some air but couldn't open the U due to weath, I just opened the canvas vent.
I highly recommend polycarbonite.

Tom

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '12, 10:40

tom i don`t know if we have the same poly. you would really have a hard time rolling mine up in let say a 6" roll. thats why i pull mine back on hinge in one piece and zipper it to cross bar. i should have given detail it may help those whom are following this thread. there is a permanent 3" piece of stamoid that slides into a vinyl strip that is screwed to the bridge (he even used the same holes that the old snap use to go into) now that piece lays flat in the contour of bridge semi- circle . now there is a velcro strip on all four sides internally that cover the four internal zippers . looks like a finish window on inside and outside . outstanding job and not a big money thing i now i have too make his boat two miles a hour faster!!!!!!!

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Jan 24th, '12, 10:43

Bob:

I said I didn't roll mine up -- it snapped directly to the hardtop perfectly flat and parallel to the top. That's the same stuff my Maui Jim's are made out of -- I had it set up to use the canvas as a hinge.

Tom

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 24th, '12, 10:44

There are a few more competitors to EZ2CY on the market now.

The hard products have gotten much better over the last 10 or more years.

Downside to hard glass is it won't roll up and you have to hinge it. Kinda like what Bob was talking about, certainly not a new theory but proven. If you need zippers your better off with 40ga. sheet glass. If you don't have to access riggers and such and can hinge a piece or two for ventilation then the new poly carb stuff can work.

Some of the products need to be patterned then glued to the stamoid, others can be sewn (with the right machine) Maintain your zippers with the right hard glass and you could see 8-10 years out of it. The latest EZ2CY product is holding up very well.

Good Luck

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 24th, '12, 11:30

I've had the best luck with strataglass, but be sure to use their lube & polish, and never roll it up when its real cold.....and I had my canvas guy made the "hngner straps" out of solf lined fleece lined stuf to keep from scratching the rolled up vinyl. Part of my hi dollar suite of the Swiss fabric (Stamoid), Gore-Tex stitching and strataglass.....which, 10 years later in pure outdoor use, is still like new except for some faulty zippers that were nylon vs. delfin.

The hard "bullet-proof" stuf is not what its cracked up to be. Many years ago I was on a panel to examine how bullets penetrated bank windows and we used that stuff as one of the controls. Duck fast.

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 24th, '12, 11:47

ok tom now we are on the same page. jp my side curtains are ez2cy with stamoid. ok but not even close to the clearness of the poly carbonate also somewhat or slightly wavy in hot sun . the poly seems to take the extreme hot sun facing due south and the 20 degree days of early winter bass fishing.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jan 24th, '12, 18:45

My enclosure is ez2cy on the front panel and 2side panals that wrap arond3/4 of the way aft, no distortion day or nite, I have the same type install on my big boat for 8 years, the stamoid is not compatible with polarized sun glasses, u won't like,found out the hard way years ago, once a year we remove the panels to have them polished to remove scratches, other than that we wax it with car polish

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 24th, '12, 23:26

Thanks for the input,guys.
Sometimes I'm glad that this project has taken so long, as far as, that, new products are always coming out, and, I've been able to increment them as they come my way. I'm having a couple of bids being worked on for a EZ2CY enclosure, and, one for a poly carbonite enclosure...I'm leaning toward the later, as it might be better for my application. By the way, I took your advice,JP, on going with a tower instead of a half tower...you told me that going with the half tower is like putting a big styrafoam cowboy hat on a beautiful girl.
Bob and Tom.
Great info as always...I'm glad that you guys posted up.
Thanks again,
John.

Craig G · Post by **Craig G** » Feb 2nd, '12, 19:48

I used a poly carbonate called Makrolon, which is made by the Bayer company. This stuff is amazing! It is very thin (not sure of exact thickness, but I probably could measure it). I have a 31 Bahia Mar with a hard top. The Makrolon is sewed to canvas that slides along a track for easy removal. I always leave it on though, but will take it off for hurricanes. When my canvas guy did the job, I insisted on using Makrolon, or he wasn't going to get the job. He broke several needles before using one strong enough to sew it. I snap it down on the sides, and snap them up to my hard top. The canvas part acts as a hinge. It only takes a minute or two. They are crystal clear, will never shrink and won't turn brown. They do scratch easily though, but are virtually unbreakable. I discovered the material about 6 years ago when I made some hurricane windows for my house with the same material that is 1/4" thick. Just to give you an example how strong it is, I made a 4' x 10' x 1/4" thick window and carried it over my head, and it curved to about a 2 foot radius flapping around like a wet noodle. It didn't even think of crazing or cracking. Try that with lexan or plexiglass. I've been told it is 30 times stronger than lexan. It is bullet proof when it is 1 inch thick. I have had that window on the side of my house for 6 years now, and you still can't tell it is there when looking from inside out. A 4' x 10' x 1/4" piece was about $250, so a very thin piece should be very affordable. I buy all my Makrolon at ET Plastics in Ft. Lauderdale. I wouldn't use anything else.......period!

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 3rd, '12, 13:44

Craig,
Thanks for the details. Makrolon sounds like the right stuff. I didn't know that they actually sew the panels to the fabric. Sounds like the way to go.
Thanks.
John.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 3rd, '12, 14:18

Craig,
I found out that E&T Plastics has a location in Dallas. I was wondering what thickness Makrolon did you use? E&T said to use either .060 or .080.
Thanks in advance.
John.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 3rd, '12, 19:38

Marlin when my ez2zy installation was completed they supplied me with a can of ez2cy spray . I guess this is actually a wax? You say you use regular car wax . I have a scratch on the ez2cy side curtain and was not sure what to use I guess you answer my question other then what wax did you use?

Craig G · Post by **Craig G** » Feb 3rd, '12, 21:24

JohnCranston wrote:Craig,
I found out that E&T Plastics has a location in Dallas. I was wondering what thickness Makrolon did you use? E&T said to use either .060 or .080.
Thanks in advance.
John.

John, I'm not sure, but I will try to measure it tomorrow when I go to the yard. I'm thinking it was thinner than that, like about .035 or so, but I will check. If it is too thick, it will break needles if you try to sew it.

Craig G · Post by **Craig G** » Feb 12th, '12, 01:46

I couldn't measure my Makralon on my boat because the canvas border is too large to be able to measure it, but I think it is in the .035 range. If you go .060 or .080, I don't think you can sew the canvas on it. I would suggest getting some samples from ET Plastics and bring them to your canvas guy to try sewing them. I'm sure .060 and larger will break the needles. Even though mine is very thin, it doesn't distort at all, and other than a few scratches, they still look new after almost 2 years.

alano · Post by **alano** » Feb 13th, '12, 08:34

Been working with Makrolon for a few years now and this is what I know - It is available in .30 and .60 - the .60 is coated with scratch/UV resistant, the .30 is not (the peel off is red on .30 and green on the coated FWIW). There are other brands of polycarbonate available thru distributors that come in .20 and in rolls of .20 and .30, an outfit in CA also offers a coated product in .60 as well. Fabricators will need diamond pointed cutting needles and a PTFE thread - Solarfix 2000 denier seems to work good, Tenara's 92 will break quickly from heat and sharp edges and thier 138 is a bitch to sew with. Differences between EZ2CY and Makrolon is that the poly can be sewn - it's Lexan and not nearly as brittle as the Acrylic in EZ2CY which is glued/heat welded and is usually .90. Have seen the acrylic shatter from swinging in storms but not yellow and have seen the poly yellow but not shatter. "They" say the newer coated poly is yellowing resistant and so far (the last few years I've been doing it) it seems OK. Material cost is in the Strataglass range but it's probably 1.5 - 2 times more difficult to fabricate, you can't roll it up to get the u-zips under the machine throat so are limited in design - makes me wish I bought that 30" machine. Also be sure to file or sand down corners and sharp edges before sewing the panels. U-zips are hinged and swung up, even the .30 can't reasonably be rolled tight enough - haven't used .20 so can't say. Typically the .60 is used forward and .30 sides and aft. Alan.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Feb 13th, '12, 18:55

What about the polarization that appears in strataglas and not in ez2cy, none of this stuff is easily movable or rollable, if u fish and need to have a safe and easy access to the riggers or need to lower the antennas to clear bridges, do a lot of planning in the side panel design. I carried my side panel as far aft as possible to keep a cleaner look and minimize seams, I ended up installing hydraulic riggers and electric antennas because of the frequency of actuating these 2items. My front to sde panels are gently bent around the bridge corner and with no optical distortion , thought about the front panel swinging in and up but the length or height of the panel was to long to switch easily, I actually have remove my ez2cy center panel replaced it with isinglass that rolls up, if u don't have any way for air flow it gets super hot, exceeds 150f, I measured it with an in fared thermometer,I do have a/ c in the enclosed bridge but as soon as I open the aft enclosure to communicate with the mates/ angler it gets hot quick,I guess my lesson learned is to think out your practical needs and the routine daily mechanics involved

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Feb 13th, '12, 23:12

Alan do you do canvas work in Va Beach?

alano · Post by **alano** » Feb 14th, '12, 13:29

Capt. Frank, yes I do although fortunately (?) I've hooked up with an outfit that re-does RHIB and small patrol boats for gov't agencies so have been seeing gray and black for the last 8 months - that takes 90% of my time. Been working some private work in but mostly existing customers who are kind enough to wait for me. The gov't boats have real hard deadlines (the ship's leaving and the NAVY don't wait for Al to finish a top). Still trying to get to mine, 2 years now. Alan.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 14th, '12, 14:52

Craig,
Thanks for getting back with me. After doing some research, looks like the .060 can be sewn, and like Alan said, is coated for scratch resistance.
Alan,
Thanks for the technical info on Makrolon. I got a price of $37 for a 4'x8' sheet of the stuff...E&T said that they'll cut it for free...whatever dimensions I need.
I just got a quote for a 3 sided Strataglass and Stamoid enclosure of $3150 but still trying to find someone that'll work with the Makrolon.
Many thanks, fellas.
John.

alano · Post by **alano** » Feb 14th, '12, 17:58

John, for $37 you're probably looking at .30 non-coated, my cost from distributors lands about $160 for the .60 coated - about the same as strata, if it turns out to be .60 coated, please forward contact info, that's a real deal. Be aware that polarized glasses can cause some "flaring" at certain angles, not a problem for most but you may want to go look thru a boat with your particular glasses to see if it's going to be problem for you. Also Stamoid/Strata 3 sides for 3150 is a very fair price, the prices for materials is getting stupid, would recommend that you spring for the Tenara or comparable lifetime thread - shouldn't add more than $80 or so if that. So you'll get 5-7 years out of zips and the strata more if it's taken of. Alan.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 15th, '12, 01:29

Alan,
The price was $37 for the .60 and $39 for the .80...I'llcall tomorrowand see if it's coated or not and let you know. The Strataglass enclosure was with 40mm on the front curtains and 30mm on the side curtains, and, the panels were to be pinned up under the tower and not rolled up. Which Tenara thread would you recommend?
Thanks again for your help.
Bertram,
I'm listening to you. I've been planning this project out since I had my tower built. I want the enclosure to be as inconspicuous as possible...I want as little fabric showing as necessary...the fabric guy called it "the low profile look"...and am trying to hide the zips behind the tower and side support legs.
I'm also faced with an obsticle as far as the front panel behind the helm and clearance issues...will probably have to go with the Strataglass panel on this one.
Thanks for your advice.
John.
"

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 15th, '12, 01:34

Sorry, Marlin,
I called you Bertram...not a bad mistake...Bertram is a cool guy.
Thanks.

alano · Post by **alano** » Feb 15th, '12, 08:34

John, I use the "TR" which is the 92 size thread is the smaller thread, a monfiliment and it works fine for me, have a large Searay camper package on a lift at the mouth of a river that funnels the wind and it's been thru a nor'easter, hurricane/tropical storm and tornado-ish storm with 70+ gusts with no thread failure. It's not as strong polyester to start with but doesn't lose strength from UV or acid rain and whatnot so supposedly (keyword there) they're equal in couple years and stronger after that. They may also recommend SolarFix which is a PTFE, I've been using it some lately, more of a thread versus a monfilament like Tenara, I haven't had it out there long enough to say that it's great. Alan.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Feb 15th, '12, 14:22

Alan,
I called E&T Plastics and was told that I'd have to buy a pallet of the coated stuff just to get any...24 sheets...struck out.
Thanks again,
John.

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