All I Want For Christmas Is

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 4th, '11, 17:33

6LPA-STP2 Diesels, ZF 63A 8 degree down angle 2 to 1 trannies, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Dec 4th, '11, 17:35

Rocky, Dont forget the props in the stockings...BH

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 4th, '11, 20:52

My wife is making those custom 21" wide stockings now, good one Bob!
I don't know how diesels can fit down our chimney but I'll let the magic of Christmas come through..

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 5th, '11, 14:05

Rocky,
I hope that Mrs. Santa comes through for ya, since you're not asking for too much or anything!
Is Yanmar still making the LP 315's? For how much longer?
Mind your P's and Q's and be a good boy for at least 3 more weeks or so.
John.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 5th, '11, 17:03

John,
As far as I know yes the lp 315 series is still made (I just got a quote from a dealer) but of course that came with sticker shock. Sloooly trying to save for the 6lpa's but not new, could never afford that. Yanmar far exceeds other brands in my immediate area for support so there goes the Steyr idea, Yanmar is everywere here. As for these for Christmas, yea right, wishful thinking! (Wishing's free so I'll keep on doing that I suppose)!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 5th, '11, 18:17

step# 1 every week or so go on boat diesel ' com and review the adds sooner or later you can purchase used low hour gears IRM-220 -A1 in 1.53 to one ratio (about 6000 for pair). when the money starts coming in again purchase remax cummins 330 or 270hp from tony athens in ca. save 18,000 and buy your wife flowers!

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 5th, '11, 20:21

Oh great Bob, perfect timing Melissa was reading this and now I got the "what about our kitchen" question! Cummins is second in the popularity in my area I'm told by a few boat yards but you really can't go wrong with either they say too. I see your point about the 6bta remans pricing with warrantee, I don't see why the reman Yanmar should not have a warrantee either though, unless I'm missing something like it's too expensive to reman. I've seen 6lpa's remans for 12.5K but like Bruce had written before "reman" can mean a thousand different things from one place to another, nobody I've called so far has info on what exactly they did to any one particular engine as far as reman specifics, which bothers the @#$% out of me. I guess most of there customers don't need/want to know.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 5th, '11, 22:30

Tony Athens' remains aren't remains. They're brand new but can't be sold as such. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 5th, '11, 23:10

Rocky

How bout one of those From Rocky to Rocky for Rocky Christmas gifts.....

Don't dare tell Melissa I suggested this but I have to tell you "Forgivness is easier to get than Permission"

I'm pulling for ya, buddy! ! !

LOL

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 5th, '11, 23:29

rocky what walter was saying is absolutely correct . lets say there was a little loophole in the epa law and cummins for the time being figure a way around it. (the feds say if any part of the car, boat, airplane, whatever is used then the rest of the vehicle is used) ok so we take the brand new bosch fuel pump and run it thru the assembly line twice------bingo engine is reman, just like you guys cannot sell a car that was called back on the "lemon law" as new. i purchase my engines june 27 2006 the engine built date is may 25 2006 and the block date code is april 2006 . how do you think a engine was made and two weeks (considering building time) later it was rebuilt!!!!!!! trust me i took my engine partially apart and placed on dyno brand new motor and the cummins factory would not give you a two year warranty on a rebuilt anyhow. there is one stipulation the engine can only be used as a replacement to existing cummins you do have old cummins now right %$#@** JUST SAY YES.

jrhaszard · Post by **jrhaszard** » Dec 5th, '11, 23:45

Rocky,I would NEVER tell a lie to my (young,second) wife.However,what Harvey said.We're all pulling for you.Keep your stick on the ice."Quando omni flunkus,mortati"

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Dec 6th, '11, 00:08

i 2nd Harry!

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 6th, '11, 00:24

Rocky,
And I know that Melissa is not gonna settle for Formica and partical board.
Best wishes, pal.
John.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Dec 6th, '11, 00:41

They will fit down the chimney. Just have to it one piece at a time.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Dec 6th, '11, 07:00

you guys are gonna land Rocky one thing for xmas.... a doghouse.
and they tend to be the gift that keeps on giving !!

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Dec 6th, '11, 10:08

I know how that goes Rocky! I am in the middle of tiling our bathroom right now as penance! I have determined that nothing is square or plumb in my house!!

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 6th, '11, 10:15

Thank you for the inspiration guys, I believe the hardest part is the
"compromise" between house and boat. I keep telling Melissa "but the house doesn't ever go anywere, don't you want to have the joy of exploration?"
Return- " Do you like when I cook you dinner?"

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 6th, '11, 10:35

Rocky.....your on the right track here

You can go sleep on the boat but you cannot go fishing in the house...

But I can tell you this.....from experience...... "Do what ever in the f*#k you want to do" don't really mean exactly what it says! ! ! !

An another one to run from (its a trap) when she says "Honey I don't need anything for my birthday, I feel like I already have it all"......the translation is.......your ass better not show up empty handed on my birthday! ! ! !

Steve....sounds like you have input here! ! !

hb

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 6th, '11, 12:13

I read ya loud and clear Harry, sounds like words to live by from experience!

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Dec 6th, '11, 13:44

Did I understand correctly, I can't get the 6bta "remans" if the boat currently has gas in it?

UV, isn't that a constitutional violation and discriminatory?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 6th, '11, 14:58

don`t get nervous tom it is just a box to check off on dealer sheet. of course you have worn out cummins and the old ones that did not meet tier one will be dispose with and not sold in ny,mass, conn,ri, and ca. as a matter of fact they will go to scrap yard-------------------right!!

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Dec 6th, '11, 16:28

Bob:

When you mean "you will save $18,000" - compare to what.

For example - how much for a pair of Cummins 270? (average, I know is an estimate)

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 6th, '11, 16:35

Tom - repower at night.

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 6th, '11, 17:15

the cummins 270hp are 17,000 per side complete engine without gears .34,000 a pair brand new with two years parts and labor the same as 6lpa`s.if you want the ZF gears brand new thats additional 7 grand again you don`t need new gears provided you buy from reputable people they available all the time especially in 1.53 ratio in which you need for a 31 bertram. there is also something very important i should mention the irm 220-a1 is a 10 degree down angle instead of the 8 degree behind the yammies. the engines can be set much deeper in the hole and further back (opps i am not allow to say that it offends some people) by purchasing seperate you can order vulcan drives instead of those noisy spring type flex plate.the yammies are about 52 grand from our yard.there are other money considerations i cannot mention here.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 6th, '11, 17:36

Some general info on the Cummins ReCon engines:

http://boatdiesel.com/News/News.cfm?P=2 ... ruiser.cfm

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 6th, '11, 18:13

vic thats only part of the picture . cmi stock went from 45 dollars to 96 dollars after they blew yanmar out of china and the pacific rim countries then to make matters worst cat too the top hp and cummins the low hp and new holland excavating machines went to cummins and left yanmar out in the cold . cat bought perkins diesel corp to provide engines for there small machines. china did extensive tests for there mining opperations and chose cummins.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 6th, '11, 20:01

Damn, Bob, that reminds me of the three happiest days of my life: (1) 45 years ago when I handled my last divorce case; (2) 25 years ago when I sold my lawnmower, and (3) 15 years ago when I sold most all my stocks.

A great lesson on why the stock market is a bookie game.

Seriously, Cummins has made a superior engine for years, really starting with the B & C series back in the mid-80s, a real game changer.

UV

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 6th, '11, 22:32

So Bob, all that is not to say Yanmar is weak or a sinking company, correct?
It seems they are as strong as anyone else in the bay area here as far as selling there products go.
As far as pricing, here is one place saying they will beat anybody else in the area(were have I heard that one before)
Yanmar 6LPAM-STP2 with ZF 63A $29,086.00 x2= $58,172.00
Retail Pricing with ZF 63A $34,220.00 x2= $68,440.00
Of course this is new and did not get a reman price, I might go there again
to get that quote when the time comes.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 6th, '11, 23:05

sounds about right 58,172 retail and ny. and ca. same engine. i should add to the above Yanmar mother company could care less. a sale is a sale to a competitive company like Yanmar but marine diesel is less than 1% of there sales . like cat also not concerned with small hp diesels. as most of you know cummins team up with the hp wizards at Mercruiser and the results are all cummins engine less then 480hp are high speed diesels.
rocky, cummins can not even sell a rebuilt 6bta-m3 due to the redesigh of the block for electronic engines cause them to up the camshaft a 1/4" in dia along with the new storm block basicly in major production 2006. they would not be able to get rebuiltable cores in numbers. the block can go on for ever sleeved. you would be real lucky if you could find a storm block core today. the entire engine is brand new with the tell tale double numbers on the bosch 7100 pump.(to keep the feds happy).check the block casing date if you buy a pair note the one to two month lead time -------up north we call this hoodwinking.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 7th, '11, 22:56

I put the 270 Remans in my when I repowered. Heck when the Cummins dealer took the boat, the gas big blocks were already out and sold.

Never seemed to be a problem for him In 2008 a pair of 270 reman cummins with new tansmissions, cost around 38. New 315 Yanmars, were going to cost 50 without the harness and gauges. As bad as I thought I wanted to put in the Yanmar's, the dollars made the difference.

The dealer who sells Cummins, Yanmars, and Volvo's said go 270's. More than enough power, easier to maintai since it has a fresh water cooled after cooler.

As you can see I followed his advice. I run light. No tower. On a good day at 2200 RPMS I am cruising around 23 knots with a full load of fuel. Top Side is around 30 knots.

Remember despite what Bob says, it is a 31 ft. boat. How often are you going to be able to run more that what the 270's will give you. Yes we have those flat days. To the Canyon at 28 knots would be nice but is 3 to 4 knots worth 10 grand?

Now order the engines, hide them and don't tell the wife until they are in.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 8th, '11, 00:59

Rocky,
If you're putting together a Christmas list for Santa, then, write down what you really want! If you want Yanmars, then, write down Yanmars..In the long run...less hastle for him...no re-mans, and all of that non sense. If he's running a little short this year, then, you'll get the 270's...hopefully, with some spare tools and an injection pump or two, and a bunch of impellers...

Merry christmas, everyone.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 8th, '11, 01:48

and, if St. Nick thinks that you've been a heel all year, then, maybe he'll throw in Tony Athen's personal cell phone number...

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Dec 8th, '11, 08:05

Harry Babb wrote:
Steve....sounds like you have input here! ! !

hb

Yeah...many years ago, I bought this little white MGB. Horrible little car, but I loved it. Problem was, I bought it without the "OK" from the powers that be. Sold the car about two years later, but that series of events taught me the term "gone, but not forgotten" !!

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 8th, '11, 09:51

John, Tony, It'll be Yanmars as that is my preference/ most logical choice based on local support. I think I'll follow the kind words of wisdom on the wifee thing and be honest upfront! If I had a limitless fund for this boat I'd still do it myself. It's the pride and joy of "messing with boats", plus it would be boring if you got everything you wanted for Christmas all the time! Where's the challenge in that. I seriously think of diesels every day, Melissa thinks I'm obsessed, and I tell her Yup, that's free along with wishing!

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 8th, '11, 09:54

Jeeezzzz.....we must all be afflicted with the same disease....I bought the same little white MGB years ago, fought the damn thing for two years then traded it for an even worse 23 Mako with twin seldom-running Evenrude 140s with something like 12 carbs between the two....I was drinking a lot back then.....

UV

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 8th, '11, 11:55

Vicroy wrote:Jeeezzzz.....we must all be afflicted with the same disease....I bought the same little white MGB years ago, fought the damn thing for two years then traded it for an even worse 23 Mako with twin seldom-running Evenrude 140s with something like 12 carbs between the two....I was drinking a lot back then.....

UV

LOL

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 8th, '11, 14:32

UV that's a lot of carb sinking! I remember when I was a
BMW addict,(had 5 2002s) the mikuni side draft sinking was
enough for me let alone over twelve! Glutent for punishment!

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 8th, '11, 21:59

Rocky
I showed up with a 69 Corvette one day.....unannounced......I gotta tell ya, it was touch and go for the first little while.....but when I told her that I took out a home equity loan for it.....things started going down hill pretty fast.

Its a good thing I have a loving understanding patient tolerant wife who must feel really sorry for me! ! ! ! LOL

BTW.....I still have my wife...........and the little red Corvette

hb

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 8th, '11, 22:56

Harry,
I'm sure you would know, if that's a L88 427 stingray your sittin on gold.
I love that body style by the way! My father raced quite a few cars but one of them through the SCCA was a '80 Corvette in the ITGT class. Holy @@#$%
that was fast. Blueprinted and balanced 350 that redlined way above it's time.
BTW, In my position today I'd need Melissa's co-sign for a second line of credit so that blows that idea!

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 9th, '11, 01:20

Rocky,
Do you think that Harry can handle 435 ponies and a Muncie M22?...sure he can...he's a Bertram man!
What's under the hood? Harry?
John.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Dec 9th, '11, 08:11

Harry Babb wrote:Rocky
.....but when I told her that I took out a home equity loan for it.....things started going down hill pretty fast.

hb

Down hill??...probably like dropping a bowling ball.
LOL, but I bet you slept with one eye open for a while !!
Glad you still have the 'vette !!

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 9th, '11, 08:43

Rocky
I'm not that smart/lucky....its a Tee Top car, Red, Stick, 350 CID. From the factory she had 350 HP but the engine is not original. Probably 250 HP on a cold day.

I have let the car go down hill...BADDDDD! ! ! ......may be she will be the next project after DeNada. Insert smart remarks here......LOL_____________________________.

John.......I probably can handle 435 Ponies if as long as I'm in a big wide open area......things tend to get a little sideways, even with low HP. My drive way is "Red Dirt" (A southern thing). One day Jo Ann and I were motoring down the drive way coming back from an Ice Cream trip....I spun the steering wheel all the way to the right....and nailed it....the car immediately went into the "Spin Cycle" about 6 DoNuts in a row....came out of the DoNut routine and slid right up to the old garage building, stopped and said.....sooo, whatch think, was that wild or what? She called me a bad name and walked off......LOL.....but I do wonder what more HP would be like! ! ! uhmmmmmm! ! !

Steve.....I think my reputation has preceeded me and that's why Jo Ann don't let me have a check book or credit card.....keeps me on an allowance......otherwise I would be living under an Interstate Overpass.

Rocky....seriously about your engines. Keep shopping and you may find a good pair of running takeouts that just need freshening up. No more hours than we put on these boats, its my opinion that rebuilt will outlast my life span. I was very luck in that Brewester posted a pair of Cummins on our Swap and Sell board, for one hell of a deal and I bought them. I watch Ebay, Craigslist, Boat Diesel as well as troll the local marine shops all of the time......not very often but I have ran across some seemingly good deals. My suggestion is to strongly consider used or rebuilt. With the price of engines and the low value of our 31's anymore, new engines will get us more upside down in these boats than we already are.

Just out of curiosity.....question for everyone here......how many hours do most of you guys put on your 31's in a years time?

hb

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 9th, '11, 09:34

i have a little differant boating situation . my slip is 17 miles from the inlet so i run to and from (34 miles) at 30 knots. i need the 330hp cummins.tony i reccomended the 270hp for rocky and i feel thats the best engine for most of our 31 bertrams.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Dec 9th, '11, 09:46

Just out of curiosity.....question for everyone here......how many hours do most of you guys put on your 31's in a years time?

Harry we run about 300-350 hours per year, considering the average recreational boater only puts 100 per year on their boat we are pretty lucky. And let's not forget those are some of the best spent hours of my life. Friends, family, fishing....

And so its not a thread hijacking I think Rocky's Christmas list should include a 5kW Northern Lights and A/C

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Dec 9th, '11, 10:18

Harry, Still a great ride you have there!
So on a scale of saving to spending I can guess your like me and at the
spending side! I too have limited/no access to cards. Keeps me in check!
On the engines, yes that would be interesting to see how many hours
our brothers put on there engines per year, I'm guessing Brewsters towards
the top in hours. I also completely agree with you on why not reman/rebuilt
considering the engines are an intricate part of our boats. Most of us don't
just close the engine boxes and forget the engines! I had seen recently a set
of 6lpa's from a 40 ft cat still running in the boat, I'd imagine that could be
one to go take a ride with a diesel tech to assess under load/conditions?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 9th, '11, 10:34

I'm guessing Brewsters towards the top in hours.

And that's with Yanmar 6LP's BTW...

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 9th, '11, 10:45

jp
i have 2500 on my yanmar 4 lha ste

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 9th, '11, 11:47

Forgot to include myself on the "Question"

When I ran my 244 Chaparral I usually put about 150 hours per year. Most of my fishing is on anchor, bottom and drift fishing within 40 miles from the pass.

The 3 years that I had DeNada before putting her on the hill I ran about 50/75 hours per year.

Bob, your situation is like mine.....I have a 45 minute idle time down the river and across a back bay, followed by another 50 minute run across Mobile Bay just to get to the Gulf. From there its a run to where ever we decide to fish or dive for the day.

Doug.....how long does it take to go from Pensacola to Port Eads?

hb

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Dec 9th, '11, 13:40

Harry,

If the sea's are in your favor 6-7 hrs @ 20kts or better doing a straight run threw with no fishing, but you know that ain't gonna happen with me.

DQ

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 9th, '11, 15:16

Just looking back and trying to summarize some things.

Cummins 270s run 17-18k per motor plus 3-4k for gears? So were talking 42k all in. Since Santa is installing rockys motors there were no other costs thrown out.

So I've heard thrown around about 75k installed there a bouts from time to time. So 33k in additional parts and labor is about right?

WOW

I did just under 100 hours this year let's say 10 8 hour fishing trips and 10 2hour round trip beach trips. I'd say that was 30-50% of my time on the water, the remainder was on my flats boat. Luckily on the flats boat i spend 8 hours on the water and if I run the motor for a half hour it's a lot.

bertram31.com

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