NOt too worried about the warranty. Since we went in late the first year, the dealer did not kick the warranty in until the next year. He is pretty good. Probably one of the best around this area. Heck, one of the biggest Charter business's out of Point Pleasant swears by him. In fact they live and die by him.
He is a local to the area I keep the boat. Born and raised. Cut his teeth on DD's. Grandfather was old South Jersey boat builder.
He has never done wrong by me so not worried.
I will check into the T and the mechanical guage. Can anyone recommend the guage I should get?
Engine Alarms
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
-
Tony Meola
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7027
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
- Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
- Contact:
If an engine has a thermostat of 180 degrees, then thats what the temp of the engine is going to be regulated to.
It doesn't matter wether the engine is moving or standing still. The only way for that engine to get hotter would be for the cooling system to fail or the ambient surrounding temp to increase thus taxing an already weak cooling system.
If it weren't the case, every truck stop tractor diesel would over heat sitting still while the driver sleeps.
The 31 engines boxes are not making the engines run hotter, in fact because of such a small area the air flow used for cumbustion flushes out the heat continually and replaces it with ambient air thru the dorad boxes or deck scoops.
Modern oils are designed to take the heat of marine engine applications under normal use without a hicup.
Most all the major marine engine makers recommend a 15w40 oil these days. Theres a reason, it holds up and if it didn't you can bet your asses they wouldn't be using it.
Thsi issue is easiest to confirm using an accurate manual pressure guage thats calibrated to 1/4 pound incriments as I used for testing oil pressure issues.
Warning on the "T" for the manual guage.
Don't buy cheap brass fittings from Home depot, use a steel fitting as the wall will be thicker and with the engine vibration and the additional weight of something else hanging on has less chance of breaking at the threads. Also use high temp, hi pressure hose and not that 1/8 nylon tubing crap.
I replaced no less than 8 or 9 engines that this happend to including new installs where the warrantee was voided due to the oil being dumped when the fitting broke. It don't take but a short time to empty the oil and if one's not paying attention or the alarm buzzer can't be heard, the next sound you'll hear is a boat anchor forming while ditching a rod out the side of the engine box.
It doesn't matter wether the engine is moving or standing still. The only way for that engine to get hotter would be for the cooling system to fail or the ambient surrounding temp to increase thus taxing an already weak cooling system.
If it weren't the case, every truck stop tractor diesel would over heat sitting still while the driver sleeps.
The 31 engines boxes are not making the engines run hotter, in fact because of such a small area the air flow used for cumbustion flushes out the heat continually and replaces it with ambient air thru the dorad boxes or deck scoops.
Modern oils are designed to take the heat of marine engine applications under normal use without a hicup.
Most all the major marine engine makers recommend a 15w40 oil these days. Theres a reason, it holds up and if it didn't you can bet your asses they wouldn't be using it.
Thsi issue is easiest to confirm using an accurate manual pressure guage thats calibrated to 1/4 pound incriments as I used for testing oil pressure issues.
Warning on the "T" for the manual guage.
Don't buy cheap brass fittings from Home depot, use a steel fitting as the wall will be thicker and with the engine vibration and the additional weight of something else hanging on has less chance of breaking at the threads. Also use high temp, hi pressure hose and not that 1/8 nylon tubing crap.
I replaced no less than 8 or 9 engines that this happend to including new installs where the warrantee was voided due to the oil being dumped when the fitting broke. It don't take but a short time to empty the oil and if one's not paying attention or the alarm buzzer can't be heard, the next sound you'll hear is a boat anchor forming while ditching a rod out the side of the engine box.
-
martinciarpella
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Jun 30th, '10, 07:29
- Location: baltimore
sort of a gray area bruce. when you first start those cummins with the ambient oil temp at the same as outside air temp oil pressure at idle in gear is 40 lbs after your out 10 minutes or so and come back down to idle in gear oil is 7lbs at idle in gear don`t you sort of wish you had a raw water oil cooler with strainers in line? i like to think you could shim the spring in front of plunger on oil pressure regulator assembly but that could cause some excess pressure on a start up in 30 degree weather. just want to get a additional 5 lbs at hot idle in gear.
capt.bob lico
bero13010473
bero13010473
-
In Memory of Vicroy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 2340
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 09:19
- Location: Baton Rouge, LA
-
Tony Meola
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7027
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
- Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
- Contact:
Bruce
Should I just get any make mechanical guage or are their some I should stay away from?
I will heed your advice and stay away from the Home Depot stuff. I try not to use too many of their plumbing fittings. Man are those castings horrible.
I will also talk with the Cummins dealer about the T set up.
Should I just get any make mechanical guage or are their some I should stay away from?
I will heed your advice and stay away from the Home Depot stuff. I try not to use too many of their plumbing fittings. Man are those castings horrible.
I will also talk with the Cummins dealer about the T set up.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
Bob,
I've done the higher idle to compensate for low oil pressure on worn engines that should have had a bearing job.
But I just never saw the issue down here with the Cummins like that. Taking in factors like warmer water which lead to many over heating issues I saw from snow birds or transients and also many times as you know with the b or c series in smaller boats a fast trolling speed when propped right.
There were numerous times I adjusted the idle to the point of just above stalling to try and cut in gear idle speed for the owner and low oil pressure was never an issue as I saw it.
Maybe it s a hit or miss in the pressure relief spring tension when hardened and Cummins answer is turn up the idle. I just never got that memo.
I kind of like this guage for its graduations.
http://www.isspro.com/proddetail.php?prod=R8602
or this one
http://www.isspro.com/proddetail.php?prod=R8600
The difference is what your oil pressure is on the high side when cold when the engine starts when you get the oil weight, idle and cold run set.
One is 50 max the other is 80 max.
try and stay as close to the max as possible.
I've done the higher idle to compensate for low oil pressure on worn engines that should have had a bearing job.
But I just never saw the issue down here with the Cummins like that. Taking in factors like warmer water which lead to many over heating issues I saw from snow birds or transients and also many times as you know with the b or c series in smaller boats a fast trolling speed when propped right.
There were numerous times I adjusted the idle to the point of just above stalling to try and cut in gear idle speed for the owner and low oil pressure was never an issue as I saw it.
Maybe it s a hit or miss in the pressure relief spring tension when hardened and Cummins answer is turn up the idle. I just never got that memo.
I kind of like this guage for its graduations.
http://www.isspro.com/proddetail.php?prod=R8602
or this one
http://www.isspro.com/proddetail.php?prod=R8600
The difference is what your oil pressure is on the high side when cold when the engine starts when you get the oil weight, idle and cold run set.
One is 50 max the other is 80 max.
try and stay as close to the max as possible.
I have one question regarding the installation of the gauge. Because Tony is still under warranty, would he be better served to have it installed by the dealer rather than do it himself? Or should he wait for the warranty to end prior to the installation of the gauge?
I am wary that Tony will void his warranty if something happens and he has altered the installation on his own. I know the mechanic is a good guy but $30,000 can turn a good guy into a real schmuck very quickly. Especially in today's economy. Maybe I'm being a little lawyer-ish on this (no offense to the lawyers intended, I love all of mine to death) but Tony needs to protect his investment.
I am wary that Tony will void his warranty if something happens and he has altered the installation on his own. I know the mechanic is a good guy but $30,000 can turn a good guy into a real schmuck very quickly. Especially in today's economy. Maybe I'm being a little lawyer-ish on this (no offense to the lawyers intended, I love all of mine to death) but Tony needs to protect his investment.
I just use a simple back mounted industrial SS glycerin filled gauge screwed into the tee. I have to open the engine compartment to see it. It is only a back up to my electric gauge to confirm the pressures. I don't know if I would go to the trouble of using a panel mounted gauge.
Rawleigh
1966 FBC 31
1966 FBC 31
Its just me but I wouldn't recommend hanging any gauge directly off a fitting on the engine, steel or not.
I've seen it done many times with much success, but I've also seen many of them snap. I've also seen more than my share snap, squirt hot oil on a turbo and catch fire.
My recommendations don't normally come from my personal preferences as as there are many personal choices that work and work fine.
They mostly come from manufactures recommendations to keep warranties intact and mistakes and disasters I've seen in 30 years of boat work and trying to eliminate as many points of possible problematic issues so a person can enjoy care free boating without being tied to a dock and mechanic.
Remember guys, most of you see a limited amount of boating exposure and issues. Where as I saw it most everyday.
Any bookie will tell you percentages is the name of the game.
I've seen it done many times with much success, but I've also seen many of them snap. I've also seen more than my share snap, squirt hot oil on a turbo and catch fire.
My recommendations don't normally come from my personal preferences as as there are many personal choices that work and work fine.
They mostly come from manufactures recommendations to keep warranties intact and mistakes and disasters I've seen in 30 years of boat work and trying to eliminate as many points of possible problematic issues so a person can enjoy care free boating without being tied to a dock and mechanic.
Remember guys, most of you see a limited amount of boating exposure and issues. Where as I saw it most everyday.
Any bookie will tell you percentages is the name of the game.
That's what was first in my mind when this thread first came up and the insistence on bringing in a mechanic to check the issue. An hours worth of labor is cheap compared to a new engine to be sure especially when warrante is still in effect.jspiezio wrote:I have one question regarding the installation of the gauge. Because Tony is still under warranty, would he be better served to have it installed by the dealer rather than do it himself? Or should he wait for the warranty to end prior to the installation of the gauge?
I am wary that Tony will void his warranty if something happens and he has altered the installation on his own. I know the mechanic is a good guy but $30,000 can turn a good guy into a real schmuck very quickly. Especially in today's economy. Maybe I'm being a little lawyer-ish on this (no offense to the lawyers intended, I love all of mine to death) but Tony needs to protect his investment.
-
Tony Meola
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7027
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
- Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
- Contact:
I realize I can put the guage in myself. Also that the dealer is a decent guy. But like everything else, since he has not steered me wrong yet I am going to be relying on him for the final outcome until the warranty expires.
Too expensive to push the envelop and have something go wrong.
The great thing about everyone here, we all just expressed our thoughts, concerns and opinions. We had differing opinions and thoughts given, and no one, I repeat no one, called anyone a name. Try that on another board.
I respect Bruce and Bob's knowledge. At the end of the day it is my decision, and I have taken everyone's comments into consideration. The thing that will drive me to the dealer is the warranty. At the least I want him to know about it. If he says run it and it dies, then he is going ot really have to work with me.
When we did the repower, he and I consulted each other constinently. I never nickle and dimed him, and when I said how about this, he always would say, do you really need to add that, there are better ways to spend the money. Sometimes I said I agree others I said, this is the better way lets do it.
So, taking in Bruce and Bob's advice, I will have a talk with him about it, and what it could be and how to fix it. Up RPM's, thicker oil, check the pressure etc.
As always, I come away from this discussion knowing more about these engines than when I raised the question.
What a place.
Too expensive to push the envelop and have something go wrong.
The great thing about everyone here, we all just expressed our thoughts, concerns and opinions. We had differing opinions and thoughts given, and no one, I repeat no one, called anyone a name. Try that on another board.
I respect Bruce and Bob's knowledge. At the end of the day it is my decision, and I have taken everyone's comments into consideration. The thing that will drive me to the dealer is the warranty. At the least I want him to know about it. If he says run it and it dies, then he is going ot really have to work with me.
When we did the repower, he and I consulted each other constinently. I never nickle and dimed him, and when I said how about this, he always would say, do you really need to add that, there are better ways to spend the money. Sometimes I said I agree others I said, this is the better way lets do it.
So, taking in Bruce and Bob's advice, I will have a talk with him about it, and what it could be and how to fix it. Up RPM's, thicker oil, check the pressure etc.
As always, I come away from this discussion knowing more about these engines than when I raised the question.
What a place.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
bruce you stated 180 degrees is 180 degrees no matter what truck ,boat or what ever i say not true nor is air temperature effect on oil not true.one of the reasons we could not be beat in offshore apba racing was our control of oil temperature. lets take "B" class B-1 fever most important to humiliate florida builders with zul/s&k not just beat them but win by 1/2 lap or more also with east coast marine in "M" class. we were running at 7200 rpm for 1 hour while they were at 6000 rpm. yes we both had engines at 180 degree and the same volumn of air by way of air scoop however our oil never exceeded 110 degrees while there`s was most likely over 200 degrees. engine temp / air combustion temp. and most of all oil temp. are seperate entities and should be treated as such. that is why i singled out oil temp. as the problem with the in gear at idle low pressure alarm but never during the first 10 minutes of running. is the oil breaking down? i don`t think so like you said 15-30 or 15-40wt factory spec. i feel the 20-50wt although stated for hd. application will help. a raw water oil cooler would be the best but extending lenth of oil hose is a no- no under cummins warranty and with remote filter distance is max. out.
capt.bob lico
bero13010473
bero13010473
Now on an earlier note about the alarm bell system.
I got Mikeys panels. After looking them I got out my old notes and realized that they were a different revison number than my notes and that some different chip sets were used.
So before I soldered, I tested and this revison doesn't even have the current capacity off the driver chip for a 20ma relay coil.
I called the engineer and he confirmed the revision.
They look almost identical but the circuit components are the different so using the piezo circuit is a no go any more and I don't know when that changed cause the last set of panels I did was 10 or so years ago.
So two options are left at this point, put in a whole nuther set of switches for the bell or I'll come up with a schematic using the current sensors that switch the ground. Low voltage won't trip it though.
Another case of fixing something that didn't need fixin. I think the first producer of the boards went out of business.
I got Mikeys panels. After looking them I got out my old notes and realized that they were a different revison number than my notes and that some different chip sets were used.
So before I soldered, I tested and this revison doesn't even have the current capacity off the driver chip for a 20ma relay coil.
I called the engineer and he confirmed the revision.
They look almost identical but the circuit components are the different so using the piezo circuit is a no go any more and I don't know when that changed cause the last set of panels I did was 10 or so years ago.
So two options are left at this point, put in a whole nuther set of switches for the bell or I'll come up with a schematic using the current sensors that switch the ground. Low voltage won't trip it though.
Another case of fixing something that didn't need fixin. I think the first producer of the boards went out of business.
-
Tony Meola
- Senior Member
- Posts: 7027
- Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
- Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
- Contact:
Mikey
Don't feel bad. The first time mine went off, I thought I was getting feedback through the VHF. During the day, before I got the alarm, there was some turkey on the radio who caused a similar sound every time he miked up. Thought he was back on the radio.
Turned off the VHF and still had the weird noise. Took me about a minute to figure out it was the oil pressure alarm. Then I thought to myself I would never hear this at cruise.
I think this winter I will have to come up with some other type of alarm set up. Really don't want to destroy an engine.
Don't feel bad. The first time mine went off, I thought I was getting feedback through the VHF. During the day, before I got the alarm, there was some turkey on the radio who caused a similar sound every time he miked up. Thought he was back on the radio.
Turned off the VHF and still had the weird noise. Took me about a minute to figure out it was the oil pressure alarm. Then I thought to myself I would never hear this at cruise.
I think this winter I will have to come up with some other type of alarm set up. Really don't want to destroy an engine.
1975 FBC BERG1467-315
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Grande and 71 guests