Express visibility and why its wet...

[Carl]

Pete, I think this is your boat or was.
A Great picture to work from...

Lower helm in perfect conditions, follow the site line from helm. In bad conditions I have that window open with my head forward another foot or two. It helps....but still you can only see so good from that vantage point.

Like my waves?? Tried to simulate a tight 1-2' but I think I show my point. Ever run in a Sea-Ray 35-40' Express, Trojen 10 Meter ...wouldn't catch me running one of those on a bet in my area. Limited visibility is an understatement.

I think the Bahia station is further forward so again that helps even more...never drove from the lower station on a Bahia.

Add the bridge which sits right on top of the cabin you are higher and more forward...visibility is greatly improved. I think the top two lines demostrate visibility from Bridge


Now for a Wet Boat...these are perfectly flat conditions, that water is being sliced at the bow area and follows the hull outward. No breeze and the water just falls off to the sides all nicey nice. Now add a breeze and a chop you have more water just being pushed outward and a breeze blows it right back... add some wind and slop and it can feel like going thru a car wash.

As Bob says he goes faster so he by passes a good amount of the returning spray...hes' also higher and more forward again missing the spray.

Now other boats you will get wet in certain conditions no matter what...but many boat have a bow flare to direct the water downward where wind and breeze have less of a chance to fling it back at you.


I have had my boat 17 years...I love it...I see and tell of the downfalls I see, at least for me. If it bothered me that much I could add a spray rail...just dislike the way they look compared to a stock 31 Hull.

Disliked the visibliity in Chop n Slop. After years of hits and near misses with my eyes peeled to the water, I added a short tower and it made a huge difference...


Not bashing the boat...cause on those days when I'm getting wet in the tower...not another boat in her size I'd rather be on.

[bob lico]

carl looking at the boat from the side .the second arrow (closest to the stern ) coming up from the water is where the waves normally break. a combination of prop rake, no weight in bow,shaft angle,a ton of weight in cockpit create a differant trim angle slightly more bow proud but also higher in water column . please come to greenport and see it,drive it and dock it , feel it first hand.

[Carl]

Believe me if I can, I will be there.

Bob also your speed must have alot to do with it. I know when I push the throttles further the boat rises up, bow comes down a bit and water sprayed outward is mostly aft of me...but unless I'm traveling Gas dock to gas dock with a Wad of cash burning in my pocket....I bring the throttles back closer to where this boat pictured is cruisng....I'd guess 18knots.

Bob, I whole heartedly believe you have developed a new breed of 31...the thing I try to get across to new potential buyers...if they are purchasing a stock 31 and if they plan to travel in my speed range (17-19knots) they should expect a certain amount of spray coming back and visibility is somewhat limited on the Express. Can they alter...yup. You have proven that already...but she's no longer a stock configuration. Just giving a potential buyer all the info.

[bob lico]

carl i agree with you 1000% . foutunately i was able to built my boat in a fully equiped facillity . there was no "magic" pill . i started with 504 cummins and she squated in the water and ran 18kns at wot. the boat was down a good 11/2" down in the stern and steered like a tractor trailer.all the bertram traits were there. i put in the yanmars (250hp)and took out at least 2500lbs . now she was at 28kns at wot but developed a flaw in big rolling waves she would accerate down the back side and dig in .play with props but still a stock boat. pull them out and put in 315hp cummins with genset still not great but the added weight in the ass help big time. all the rest was step by step with test runs with a boat along side.every started to come into play with the shaft log,rudders ,shaft angle then when i put all the weight down the center of keel the roll stoped considerbly and shifted the bridge weight and redesign v-berth cutting weight forward along with removing windshield. now i started to design the prop to take advantage of the enormous torque instead of just spinning those wheels they pushed water and the boat rose up on the strakes making me able to pull back throtles and huge gain in fuel enconomy at 2150 rpm.-----at 26knots.

[bob lico]

carl one other surprise i started out with 26" pitch now i am down to 23.5" i only lost two to three knts. at wot but found that super sweet spot at 26 knots with incredible fuel economy . it appears the closer you get to a squared prop the more efficent the boat runs. i make these posts to try and help new bertrams owners save time and aggravation and let someone else "touch the hot stove". i made a big mistake that will someday come back to haunt me. that 4.0 mase generator is way too big and if anything goes wrong with it i would have to remove engine to get it out. the engines/gears are 1/2" off the bilge and cause a nightmare when removing port waterpump for impellar service. the good news is the boat is so nimble you can make turns around a 32regulator. you can see from a ping pong ball 1'off the bow and back in within 1" of the dock.-----win some lose some!

[Bob H.]

Carl, I have followed Bobs template of weight distribution..moved as much weight back and into the center as possible...need to keep the back end planted, and enough HP to get the hull "up" and out of the water..ride on any 31 with 300+ Hp and you will feel the sweet ride..Brews boat literaly jumps up out of the water and the spray or wake is exiting the hull around the engine boxes...we ran over to get the fixns for Greenport last year and three foot sloppy chop was non issue, and that was at 26 knots..Bob what diameter prop you runnin? 21? 22? BH

[Brewster Minton]

I got 22-22. But my boat is differant in many ways :)

[bob lico]

bob i am running 21" diameter. and have zf 1.5 to 1 not sure what gear ratio brew has.

[Brewster Minton]

Same as you Bob

[bob lico]

brewster you are set up for maximum fuel economy and in todays 4.75 a gallon diesel fuel it is the most important consideration. a perfect square ;prop dia. and pitch the same for those of you setting up a new renovation this is the start however not all 31 bertrams can swing a 22" diameter . you need at least 11/2 to 2 inches from prop outter edge to bottom of boat if you are swinging alot of cup you will see the bottom paint gone first and if you continiue damage may occur.

[Pete Fallon]

Bob L, Sim & Bob H,
That still is my boat, that picture was taken in 1980. I also still have the blue interior Whaler it was taken from. You guys are great, where else can we talk about a boat that was designed and built 50 years ago and is still going strong.
I never cared about the sight lines, I'm 6'3" and I bought the boat for it's sea keeping abilitiies and fish catching. Plus I have serious knee problems and don't like being stuck up on fly bridge all day by myself. I fished for gaint blue fin when there were still a lot of granders around in the NE, and I don't fish in foul weather gear, my additude is if I need it I don't want to be out on the water. I have fished from Maine to Florida for meat, tournements and just fun and I'm glad I had my 31. I ran a Jupiter 31 for 3 years on the SAA, now the SKA series sponsered by Mariner outboards and built the Legend 34 with Evinrudes. I've fished 33, 35, 38 and 46 Berts, 46 Posts, 46 Merritts and still will take a 31 express over all of them. I have surveyed over 30 31's and have seen alot of money, time and sweat going into a boat that has a rep of being "wet boat" all I can say is I don't care.
The way my boat rides is very different than most because of the low angle struts and the 8 degree down angle gears, she's heavy built but light compared to some of the FBC I been on. I don't know of too many 31's that will do 41.8mph at 4400 RPMs on GPS and cruise at 29 mph at 3000 RPMs. My fuel burn is as good as it gets, 110 gallons for 160 miles and never shutting down for 28 hours of fishing during a 3 day sailfish tourney. And we caught 17 sails and tagged 17 of them also cuaght 6 dolphin for the grill.
If I ever get this knee straightened out I've be back on the water with a 50 year fish raiser, damn the sight lines half speed ahead.

[Carl]

Pete, no need to explain anything...I'm just putting it out there that the visibility is not as good on the Express as on other models. If your in an area prone to low lying debris with a good chop it can become an issue. I'm 5'-9 so you have the height advantage...although my helm seat is up pretty high...but then again in snot I tend to stand.

A lower helm is a tradeoff...you lose some visibility, but your out of the elements. I can let down my lines and drive while trolling. I can be with the crew when running, I can dock and get off boat in 3 step to tie up...on windy days I can untie and have boat in gear in three steps. I have all my electronics completely visible from the cockpit. I can fish(troll) in the rain and wind staying dry and warm till a fish hits or need to check lines. I can run the cockpit while trolling.

Pete, our boats where probly next to each other during the build...my Express was built 12-(? I forget)-61 as well...although it is registered as a 62.

[PeterPalmieri]

Bob,

Just by looking at other photos guys have posted it would seem that many boats would need to remove the engine to get the out the generator, is there a better solution on a B31?