Genset Install

[conchy joe]

Happy Mothers Day;

I have a 76' 28 FBC with 351's and I know that it had a genset onboard (it has the exhaust thru hull and people who know the boat said that it may have been a Kohler??).

I have acquired a Westerbeke 4.5 which runs great and I got a remanufactered generator for a previous boat but never installed.

Anyhow, I am looking for mounting suggestions or anyone with similar experience. I think that I can shoe horn it in between the motors.

We need the genset for the AC and use the boat mainly for cruising, weekend jaunts and our annual three week Bahamas trip.

What the concensus or concerns?????

Thanks

[In Memory of Vicroy]

Be sure to check the genset specs for the raw water intake and exhaust sizes - too small in either case will cause major problems. Also when "shoehorning", remember that making maintaince points hard to get to usually means they get neglected.

When I became the Steward of my B31 in the early 90s she had a 4.2 KW single cylinder 3600 rpm Farrymann powered genset that was like having a lawn mower in the bilge, and besides being very loud, it vibrated the whole boat. It mercifully self destructed rather quickly and I replaced it with a 5.5 KW Phasor with an 1800 rpm three cylinder Kuboda engine. Huge difference, smooth & quiet. Wehn Katrina ate the 5.5, I went back with a 6.5 Phasor with a slightly larger Kuboda 3 cyl. engine. It worked fine, but I started having random shut-downs that I finally traced to overheating. Turns out that the two previous generators would work with a 1/2" raw water intake, but the 6.5 needed a 3/4 and the half inch was just too small and left no room for error, like marine growth building up in the raw water strainer. The good news is the thru hull and raw water strainer have 3/4 pipe thread openings that had been bushed down to half inch.....so I ordered the necessary 3/4" bronze pipe-to-hose fittings and some hose from Hamilton Marine to convert the whole intake to 3/4". The bad news is my package, which Hamilton shipped the day I ordered it (Hamilton is top notch guys) is now hung up somewhere in Illinois, according to UPS "due to adverse weather conditions". Their story and they seem to be sticking to it.

A long story to tell ya to make sure you don't skimp on the intake size, and same for the exhaust.

Also assuming you have a gas boat, I've always wired up a 120 volt blower to my gas powered gensets to run whenever the genset is running to keep them pesky fumes at bay.

UV

[conchy joe]

Thanks for the input. Luckily this is a 1800 rpm 3 cylinder and seems pretty quiet and smooth.

The blower is a great idea.

[Harry Babb]

Joe
I had what I believe to be the same Westerbeke Genset that you are installing. Great little unit.

Be sure to use a dedicated battery.....DO NOT.....hook it up to the engine battery......first hand experience says follow the instructions and use a separate battery for the genset.

When I put the genset in DeNada it was a close fit like you are describing. I ordered a "Remote Oil Filter Kit" sure made that part of the maintaince easy.....money well spent and not to hard to install.

Good luck

hb

[Bruce]

Make sure you have syphon breaks in the exhaust and intake lines and use a lift muffler. Do not use a scoop type inlet on the water inlet.

If you put a strainer on the outside of the pickup thru hull make sure it is a round one with holes all the way around as not to trap and force water up thru the intake, past the pump into the exhaust filling it up back into the engine.

The Water intake and exhaust is the most important part of a gen install.

70% of owner installs I saw along with 15% of factory installs resulted in the genset being flooded at some time.

Do not reduce size of exhaust to save money.

Install if you don't have already a carbon monoxide detector in the cabin.

[bob lico]

bruce i have a 4.0 mase generator that i installed in my 31 . my raw water comes from a muti use manifold thru a valve then a inline check valve . every thing seems to be find for the 4 years it has been installed. last year i have rust coming out of every side of bottom of genset. gen. sit on shelf outboard of port engine in a 24/7 heated engine compartment .i look at the total package is it possible that yanmar mounted there motor on a painted steel frame? the hold frame is rusting and i cannot paint it unless i remove it------------not happening

[Bruce]

Could be the isolation mount brackets.

[conchy joe]

I got the genset in for the mock up and test out. Its a tight fit and sure has been a learning curve. Genset runs great, but when I initially fire up the AC it stalls out the genset.

It's a 4.5KW gas westerbeke, 120/60. The AC is a Marine Air Vector 7000BTU with a locked rotor amp of 36.2. I realize that I am my max on the genset and that once it's running it only draws a couple of amps.

I know that I can get a SmartStart (its a soft starter to reduce the needed starting amps) from dometic to fix the problem ($450), real pricy.

The part that drives me bonkers is that I have used a Honda 1000 generator to run the AC countless times with any problems.

Any thoughts or less pricy alternatives?????

[Bruce]

You should have no issues with that genset starting that ac unit especially if you started it with a 1kw.

If the exhaust is of the correct size with no back pressure, I'd possibly check the governor to make sure its opening the throttle enough to compensate for the startup load.

A hard start kit is nothing but larger capacitors. Something you could get for around 60 bucks at a grainger or refrigeration or ac supply house.

It looks from your first post that the unit is reman'd or used, am i correct?

If thats the case check plugs, dist cap, carb, fuel filter, fuel flow( the ability to get the gas from the tank to the set. If its to far a run, some electric fuel pumps won't handle it) and above all the choke. A common issue with gas gen sets especially Westerbeke's.

Don't waste your money on a hard start kit till you find out whats wrong with the genset.

Gen sets can run great unloaded, put on a load and can dump.

[conchy joe]

Went through all of those. I have loaded the genset with hair driers, toasters, frig, chargers, etc. Put amp meter on and it runs fine ith nearly 25+ amps, no problem. It's just that initial bump on the initial start of the ac.

I will look at a larger capacitor. [/list]

[In Memory of Vicroy]

Check the frequency output of the genset - if its low it won't start woo-woo. The voltage regulator will keep the voltage pretty constant, but if the rpm is a little low it affects the frequency - there is no such thing as an "automatic frequency regulator"....its rpm that determines the frequency and the governor is supposed to keep the rpm constant.

UV

[Harry Babb]

I am wondering if during the AC startup, is the Sea Water Pump, the Compressor and the Blower fan all trying to come on at the same time?

Will the Honda Generator still start the AC unit today?

When my AC starts up I am pretty sure that the 3 items mentioned above all start up in a sequence.

I also had a 5 KW Westerbeke Generator. I ran a 16K BTU AC with it.....no problem.

Got any pics?....I am wondering if the one you have is like the one I had.

hb

[conchy joe]

Will post some photos. The switch has three positions. Off, run (that starts fan and sea water) and run which starts the compressor.

A friend who does electric engineering said the new honda's are electronically regulated and can take the start up hit. The mechanically governed westerbeke is likely the issue coupled with a week AC start capacitor.

I will replace the capacitor tomorrow and update.

[conchy joe]

Problem solved. I replaced the run capacitor on the A/C compressor and that made a difference, then added a a booster start capacitor.

Generator powers everything without a hiccup.

Thanks everyone. I will still post some photos.

[Harry Babb]

Sure makes ya feel good to solve one.....don't it! ! !

Glad you gotter going

hb

[Bruce]

Interesting.
How long between running the ac with the 1kw till you tried it with the 4 kw?

Reason I ask is I've got a eu2kw and some of the guys here have a 1kw and a year or so ago there was a thread on this issue and I did a bunch of testing. Even with the Honda regulator, making up 3kw worth of start power never materialized even close. And all the reports I got from the 1kw units showed the same results using 5k to 12kbtu ac units.

Almost sounds like the caps took a hike between uses.