Raw water system cleaning

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 6th, '11, 08:35

I am going to clean the raw water side of the cooling system and wanted to know what the best solution to use. So many different acids to choose from and I am not sure of the right one. I am not removing heat exchanger or aftercooler. I am planning on the using bilge pump and bucket to circulate the solution. I know I need to remove all the zincs in the system. Any thought or tips would be appreciated.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 6th, '11, 10:14

Kevin,
Timing is everything. I'm doing the same. Noticed that one of my zincs unscrewed inside the aftercooler. How do I get it out, short of removing the aftercoolers? Since the engines (6BTA 300) are twenty years old maybe I should remove them and clean, huh?

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Mar 6th, '11, 10:53

Did mine last year. Used "maritime express" ultimate descaler and the bucked and samll pump route. Seemed to work ok and made an improvement on engine operating temp. There are other companies out there selling similar products, so I am not necessaily endorsing this one...just telling you which one I used. It says to run the product through your system for several hours, which I did, but to be honest the most activity was in the first 15 minutes.

Along the same lines, yesteday I wrestled my riser out on the port side. A very tough job in my boat....no room, huge solid hunk of Cu/Cu alloy. That was the last thing in the system not cleaned and am taking care of it now.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 6th, '11, 14:59

Kevin,
Don't do it on engine. The fresh water side also develops a film that will prevent heat transfer.

Take them off and have them tank dunked and pressure checked.

More work, but the absolute best way.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 6th, '11, 16:00

That is a scary thought. I can not get the cores out unless I pull the computer and remove the whole bundle which is incorporated into the exhaust manifold with the pressure tank. That would mean turbo has got to come off also. Its got to be half of the mass of the motor!

I have no temperature problems. I was merely thinking that it is something I should do just to get some of those shell/barnacle fragments that you see at the front of the oil/fuel cooler when you change impellars. I pulled the caps and they look good other than some brown film that looks similar to the coating the zincs developed.

Is flushing the raw side with acid a bad thing in general or just not adequate to solve an overheating issue?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 6th, '11, 17:40

Bruce,

Noticed that one of my zincs unscrewed inside the aftercooler. How do I get it out, short of removing the aftercoolers?

Also, Can't I do the aftercooler cleaning myself? UV, years ago, gave the instructions he had used which included removal, disassembly, muriatic acid and rodding and serious flush. Did the heat exchangers several years ago and it helped the cooling.
Thanks

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Mar 6th, '11, 21:01

Kevin-

Bruce is absolutely right on the proper way to do it,....being a pretty conciensous mechanic person myself, I did fell a bit whoreish taking the easy route (not normal for me to take the easy way).........but, if your engines are nearly 40 years old like mine are, you need to pick your battles. Any time I take some thing off of them its like exhuming a prehistoric grave...you never know what else you will get into. Opening pandoras box would be a good analogy. Thus...first line of defense, I took the easy route to see if it would help.....and it did.

Not trying to bring you to the dark side........but......

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 6th, '11, 21:15

Mikey wrote:Also, Can't I do the aftercooler cleaning myself?

Absolutely Mikey....you can do it yourself. Once you remove the cooler from the engine there are 3 bolts that hold the cap onto each end of the housing.

The big thing that may cause an immediate problem is that if the aluminum housing has corroded and stuck to the copper core. If that be the case be real careful not to hammer on the core to remove it. Best to apply heat and minimal force.

After you getter apart make sure that the aluminum housing has not corroded to a point that will not allow the O'Rings to seal. If all looks good after cleaning the bundle simply put it back together.

I rigged up some hoses and fittings so that I could pressure test the assembly before installing it back onto the engine.

Its not difficult to do.....at all....

hb

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 6th, '11, 21:41

I hear you guys on doing it right. My engines are only 4.5 years and just about to roll 400 hours. I expected to see a mess when I pulled off the end caps but it looks pretty good. To be honest I only pulled end caps off heat exchanger to get a zinc out...it broke off inside.

Now I am having to deal with the raw water mix pipe one one engine. Right around where the raw water enters the mixer all the paint is coming off. The inside looks ok to me the novice diesel mechanic. Old Horizon East already replaced once but it is starting to look rough again. It is aluminum and once the exterior paint goes on one spot it is viral. Half way thinking about having stainless mixers made but that would be pricey I'm sure.

I am just trying to take the right precautions to ensure I do not have a problem down the road. Maybe "don't fix it if it aint broke" applies to my scenario.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 7th, '11, 09:48

Kevin: Are these on your Steyrs? Aluminum is tough to paint correctly. it has to be sanded and cleaned right before painting (I mean minutes before) to keep the oxices from building up on it. There are acid etch primers that may help keep the paint on there.

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Mar 7th, '11, 12:53

Mikey: The aftercoolers can look good on the inspection.. but they should come apart.be rodded out with welding rod,. & be greased well on assembly.make sure Get your new "O" rings from Cummins ., get on over to boatdiesel.com they got an extensive article on how to.. I did mine last year 500hrs.. they were almost stuck.. BTW get a bunch ofcans o brakecleaner.. & use tefgel..
Wayne

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 7th, '11, 14:49

Harry, Wayne
Thanks, as soon as I get my taxes done (#&@$%*) I'm on it.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 7th, '11, 18:29

Mikey wrote:Harry, Wayne
Thanks, as soon as I get my taxes done (#&@$%*) I'm on it.

Mikey that should not take very long....use the "Simple Short Form"

Easy calculation
How much did you make? minus how much have you paid in taxes?

SEND THE REST! ! !

hb

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 7th, '11, 19:21

Rawleigh,

Yes that is on the Steyr engines. I knew that the aluminum would be a pain to paint. Local dealer is contacting Steyr to see what can be done. Hoping it is covered under warranty but not sure how that works. Not even sure what a stock replacement costs. I have seen some pictures of the fabricated mixing elbows you guys use on your cummins and they look pretty sweet but the price deters me. Wish I had a machine shop in my garage!

So should I acid flush or not? If the potential for doing damage exists I will not do it. If it cleans the raw side with no ill effects I will proceed.

By the way, the "freshwater" side fluid looks like it did the day I purchased the motors. It is "Steyr" brand fluid and per the book nothing else can be used.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 8th, '11, 14:38

Harry,
Is that the new simplified tax code?

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Mar 8th, '11, 15:02

Kevin-

For what its worth! I have taken all parts off (heat exch.., oil coolers, aftercoolers, shower heads, etc..) and dipped them in acid. This takes more time but I get more efficient after each time. This method I have always heard does the best job. I have also been told the muratic acid can damage some components.

Last year I decided to run BARNACLE BUSTER($20 a gallon) thru some of these parts (being lazy). I let it circulate over night and then pulled the heat exchanger off and took a look! I can tell you the raw water side was clean as a whistle. Now it may have been clean when I began! I do not see how this product could damage any of your parts but I am definitely no expert. I even run it thru my A/C system. My engines are cummins 6bta.

How is everything in the keys? I was down in December at A & B for a few nights. We departed with winds 20kts seas 5-6. after a late night at Sloppy Joes. I did not think I would make it to Orange Beach, AL.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 8th, '11, 18:23

Thanks for the input guys.

20 knots, must have been a fun ride. Things have been well down here. Been 80ish for as long as I can remember and it just seems kind of warm for this time of year. Just trying to get all the maintenance done while it is not africa hot.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 8th, '11, 18:57

Another reason for removing the tube bundle is that the bundles if not removed can and will freeze in place over time.

Some can be removed, many cannot especialy those in aluminum housings and even the bronze housings.

At that point you beat the snot out of the tubes to save the cost of the housing and sometimes you endup buying both.

Which at that point you still have the labor to remove said items PLUS the cost of buying new ones vs just cleaning.

As far as antifreeze goes, can't tell you how many times the stuff in the engine looked good in color yet the system was full of mud.

Anti freeze just like any other product will break down over time. It forms a film that prevents the proper transfer of heat from the metal to the liquid.

Easy to clean in the tubes, not so much when it forms in the engine and head passages. Some people have tried radiator flush with nasty results to clean it out.

In salt water every 3 to 5 years for cleaning all tube bundles and replacing the antifreeze.

Pay me now, or pay me much more later...........

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 9th, '11, 17:38

Bruce,

Thanks for clarifications. It makes complete sense. I was looking at the motors today and I am still thinking that the whole procedure may be a bit out of my comfort level. If I break or damage something during dis assembly, what is left of my warranty would be voided, right?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Mar 9th, '11, 19:42

Kevin wrote:I was looking at the motors today and I am still thinking that the whole procedure may be a bit out of my comfort level.

Look at it like this.....there is a chance that if you are careful, logical and thorough, that you may be successful.....then you have that experience under your belt that will expand that "Comfort Level".

And if your not successful...heaven forbid...there is someone out there some where that can straighten it allllllll out......and make it purty again.

Now the warranty! ! !...uhmmmm....That's another issue....and I totally understand that one......but I doubt seriously that cleaning the heat exchanger is covered by warranty.....and if a "qualified mechanic" does the job for you and breaks a bolt, or screws something up.....guess what.....you still get to pay.

Jump on in the waters fine! ! ! You'll be okay.....

At one time or another none of us could even spell "bote makanick".....and now we "Are One"

Seriously....Kevin, I encourage you to give it a shot....the satisafction of "Fixin It" yourself is really gratifying.

hb

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 9th, '11, 22:32

Isn't it a bit early for those Steyers?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Mar 10th, '11, 09:24

I've cleaned the heat exchangers on my 6
BTA 250s and its real easy if you remove them and do it on the dock (or your neighbor's back yard). First drain the anti-freeze out of the closed system via a small 1/4" pipe plug on the underside of the heat exchanger. Next, make a "raincoat" for the alternator by taping a large plastic bag over it; then drop the various in/out hoses to the excahnger and remove the two large clamps that hold it to the engine. Remove one of the end caps and stand it upright, open end up, clsing off the open hose inlet with a zip lock bag and some rubber bands...then pour in 50/50 muriatic acid and water, let it stand for about 20 minutes and pour out. Rinse with water, install new gaskets on both end caps, change the zinc, and you are ready to re install.....don't even think about trying it on the engine.

UV

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 10th, '11, 19:19

You guys are as usual so correct. If I took the time to pull it all apart and and put it back together I would be that much better for the next time. But like Walter said it seems so soon to be doing that. 4 and a half years already. Embarassing to say only 400 hours though. I am going to be honest with you here.....at this point I am just not willing to bust up all the paint on those pretty bolts. I have been waiting about two weeks for filters for my zf45 gears. Imagine what getting a part for the Steyrs would be like!

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 13th, '11, 15:44

Got the after coolers out and apart and thankfully they are in good shape. Pulled the covers off each end, dried them is much as possible and used Vic's magic elixir, Corrosion-X, to separate the coolers from their casing. Sprayed and left over night and, voila!, out they came with the aid of a hammer and some blocks of wood. Easy Peasy! Salt deposits are the worst of it. While I'm at it should I consider doing the transmission coolers? If I remove them am I going to have oil everywhere or does it drain back into the trans?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 13th, '11, 20:11

mikey you will lose about a cup of oil when you take gear cooler lines off gear cooler. a absorbant pad below a plastic cup with take the oil contents of the cooler.put ductape over and tie wrap together to keep line straight up with aid of bungee cord to edge of open engine hatch.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Mar 14th, '11, 11:11

Thanks Bob

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 31st, '11, 10:49

Major computer problems caused me to drop off the grid for while.
I ended up going farther with the project. While the endcaps were off I pushed a core with one finger and voila, the core slid out. I went ahead and flushed both engines with distiled water twice and then added new coolant. The freshwater side metal parts still looked brand new. Re-gasketed and put her back together. Only one tube on the raw side was still partially blocked after the acid flush but now it is clean. Thanks for all the helpwith this project! Now I am going to figure out a way to hook up a freshwater port for flushing engines after use.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 31st, '11, 13:44

Kevin,
I wouldn't worry about a fw flush kit unless your dealing with an outboard.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 31st, '11, 14:44

Music to my ears! I always like to hear you say don't bother.

bertram31.com

Raw water system cleaning

Raw water system cleaning

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