Dock lines

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 1st, '11, 13:14

Simple question.

I need to buy an extra set of dock lines for when we are away from our home port. I am sure a few of you have an opinion on amount, length, diameter and type.

I was thinking 4 20' and 2 30'.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Mar 1st, '11, 13:25

Grab a couple 15'. You will use them for the stern on floating docks. And at times for spring, depending on cleat placement.

D

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 1st, '11, 13:35

Peter- this will be a case where too much is not enough.

I think that you will be carrying too few lines and lines that are too short.

On my 25' CC that I run to FI with all the time I have six 30' lines, six 45' lines, and six 15' lines. These lines, especially the shorts, I use for multiple purposes. On your boat, you want the same number but even longer.

If you run the boat to FI and dock for dinner anywhere from Kismet to Davis Park you will be glad to have an over abundance of lines. Let alone if you ever decide to cruise to Manhattan, Block Island, etc. It's always better to have too many lines than not enough.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 1st, '11, 14:21

5/8? double braid, 3 strand?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 1st, '11, 15:30

1/2" unless you want to replace forward cleate .1/2" is more then enough in double braid.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 1st, '11, 15:58

Most importantly, you need to make sure they match the boat!!

In an accessible Duffel Bag, I leave 1/2" lines for docking purposes. I have 4-15', 4-30' plus a couple others. I like the braided...but not required. With my 2nd anchor I keep a couple longer lines for the Just in Case scenario.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 1st, '11, 16:04

PeterPalmieri wrote:5/8? double braid, 3 strand?

5/8 three strand or braid is what I use on the 25', the 31', and the 32'. Smaller boats I use the same in 1/2".

Again, trust me when I tell you the more lines the better. Remember, you can always coil a line that is longer than you need, but you are stuck if your lines are too short. The only way around that is to join lines together, and then again you will need more than six.

When you tie off at most of the FI docks the dock master will tie your boat off with you or for you. They will usually do a minimum of i) stern lines to dock, ii) spring lines for forward and iii) aft, and iv) bow lines. If all your lines are long enough this is eight seperate lines. If they are not long enough and they need to join them then you need even more.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 1st, '11, 16:12

I personally prefer 3 strand. It stands up to the rough pilings you find in marinas better than the braid in my opinion. I can also splice it easier that braid (for me anyway). It is priced lower as well. Just my personal preference.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 1st, '11, 16:57

that my man sim! yep the preformed eye double braid color should match the boot stripe color. -------still my hero!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 1st, '11, 17:05

At some point it becomes as matter of space. I'd rather go with 12 lines in longer lengths rather then 18 lines. Maybe 6 50' and 6 35' and call it a day, a duffle bag is a GREAT idea.

I like the idea of matching colors on the double braid but what makes more sense is having each length a different color for easy identification. 50' in blue, 35' in teal or white.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Mar 1st, '11, 18:08

Peter...

As you can see everybody has different opinions about something as simple as dock lines.

Somewhere I read you should have at least two that are as long as the boat plus 10 feet (good for rigging spring lines as well as tying off to pilings when there is a large tide range... they run forward from the stern and aft from the bow, just like spring lines but will allow you to tie to a non-moving piling without fetching up as the tide rises and falls.

Added to that I have four 20 foot lines, and a couple of lines in the 15 foot range.. used for breast lines, short spring lines, etc.

I also keep about 120 feet of line to add to the anchor rode or use as a tow line.

All my line is 5/8", nylon three strand. I find braided covers pick up more splinters when dragged along a wooden dock or float than three strand, plus I am better at splicing three strand than braided.

B33s such as mine weigh about 24,000 lbs, so I play it safe and conservative and use only 5/8" instead of 1/2". As far as a way to be able to look at a line and know it's length when coiled, I use different colored whipping line for the different lengths. A good friend has an even easier technique.. he wraps different colored electrical tape around each line on both ends.

On all my lines I splice a loop about 16" long on one end, and whip the other end.

I carry some extra (junk) line as well, for tying to dirty pilings, fender boards, or giving to somebody who doesn't have enough dock lines and such, plus I have a set of 3/4" three strand dock lines and a bunch of chafing gear and some extra fenders I keep on shore (I live about 500 feet from my slip) to use when hurricanes are expected.

I refer to another string of comments here made about 5-6 weeks ago, about teak lumber, where I said I was told extra teak is like extra pu**y, there ain't no such thing. I think you can add dock lines to this as well. You never have too many.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 2nd, '11, 13:31

Of all the things my dad and my uncle taught me, splicing was never the best of my attributes.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 2nd, '11, 13:35

i can do single braid, double braid is a whole different ballgame

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 2nd, '11, 13:55

Where you will be keeping the boat comes into play. I snap several 1/2" lines every year at Oaklands. I've even snapped a 5/8" double braided line (but it was old).

Force=Mass X Acceleration

When there's a surge on and that 12,000 pound boat gets to rocking.....things happen. Don't skimp on your primary dock lines. Too much is better than too little. The cleats aren't really sized for anything more than 3/4", but 5/8" is plenty. Last years lines become this years spares for travel or for tying up to lobster pots, dragging a shark home, or towing the neighbor out of the snow bank.

Cheapest way to go is to get a deal on 300' of anchor line, and then cut it to whatever lengths you like. Twisted rope is EASY to splice well.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 14:54

When I bought the boat it came with a set of 5/8 double braid lines which are sufficient for my permanent dock lines, that's what the boat is tied up with now. What I need to get are transient dock lines, mostly to tie up over at Fire Island and of course the Greenport trip. I suppose there are times where I may tie up in a slip with a very wide berth and would need more then the standard lengths. I've got 200 feet of 3/8 in the garage that I use for the smaller boat, but it's of no use for the B31.

I wouldn't anticipate needing more then 30' lines for the bow and stern and 50' for spring lines, that covers me in a fairly large slip. Plus some extra length just in case I'm wrong and a few extras incase of lose or breaking. I have no problem splicing 3 strand nylon lines but would prefer to buy prefabricated double braid lines.

Mike if your breaking that many lines you may consider snubbers. While 5/8 has a higher breaking strength it does have less stretch, the double braid has less stretch then 3 strand so you don't have much shock absorbing in those lines. The snubbers also take a lot of stress off the boat cleats...

Again not so worried about saving money but rather where I am going to stow all these lines. As I accumulate safety and comfort items, back ups and back ups to the back ups.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:20

The snubbers break, too.......

It gets pretty wild at Oaklands. I cracked a side window without ever leaving the dock.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:26

mike you have some rough water at that marina! the pop up cleates that you and i have at mid ships are find with a single 5/8" line but my mistake was a single cleat in the bow . this year i will have two on the bow. you are still the only guy i know who can make a eye in double braid . i tryed but still cannot get the hang of it. i had to develope a technique to back into a slip due to the performance. i aligh the boat with the slip and my son put the eye thru the mid ship cleat for springer and my mate on opposite side then check rudders and come back with both engine in reverse 8mph and 1' before hitting dock i hit forward and they have line around poles for springers. i dock 6" off dock at fire island and stern lines are real short and and not crossed! the grand children can now jump in and out of stern with a step inside cockpit.yep it scares people but this is rountine with a raceboat from yesteryear.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:40

Mike,

Oaklands is a lot like the dock at Ocean beach. Part of the OB dock is totally open to the bay with no 5 MPH zone so big boats go by and throw a big wake and everything goes nuts. I do not plan on using that type of dock I've watched to many problems.

I do have one issue, a previous owner mounted the gin pole so close to the mid ship cleat that it's a pain to get a 5/8 line between the base of the gin pole and the edge of the cleat. Not well thought out.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:44

peter i should mention fire island sunken forrest (sailors haven) children love it.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 16:08

Bob ,

It's a pretty beautiful place for adults too!

Not sure I mentioned this in the past. I grew up with my parents having boats. A 25' Catalina sail boat and a 25' Cruisers Inc. (clorox bottle) We spent many overnight trips at Sailors Haven, Watch Hill and Barrett. We'd spend two weeks at a time over at Watch Hill. Getting over there with the family on a flats boat is not fun. Plus no place for the baby to nap or a head for the lady of the house.

So your absolutely right my #1 reason for getting the B31 is so my son can have that same experience growing up. Dodged a huge bullet when I got an estimate for an in-the-ground-pool. "F!@# this were getting another boat".

It seems I am probably going to have to pull down the swordfish platform sooner rather then later and drop in a windlass and roller. If I want to manage to run the boat and anchor over at the beach without assistance. My wife watches the baby and I worry about running the boat. Would love to have one of those fance bow chocks but it's not in the cards...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 2nd, '11, 16:29

peter i should add to this and anybody else doing the children at fire island thing. the federal rangers have a program whereby two qualified teachers take the children in two groups ages 4 to 10 and 11 thru 16 on a tour of the bay side of the beach (this is no disney world) untouched by human hand since america was discovered and teach them the dunes,fish, trees that grow on the island and of course a guided tour of the sunken forest. youngster also get arts and craft in the maritime building.----priceless!!! every day at 1pm till 4pm. i will be over to rip that damm thing off the front of your boat on the first call!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 16:51

Back in the 80s at Watch Hill they used to have snorkling trips and a hike to a wooden ship wreck in the dunes too. I don't know that they do those anymore but the guided tour is fun for kids.

I think that from Sailors Haven to Watch Hill (not WH Rhode Island for out of towners) is one of the best boating destinations found anywhere. Laid back for the most part no houses, no resorts just a dock and a walkway over to the ocean with a general store. The biggest secret is Talisman, no big dock just an anchorage, bathroom with a boardwalk over to the ocean. On 4th of July you'll find no more then 100 people on the beach with nobody for 3 miles in either direction. If I'm not fishing it's my favorite place on earth in the summer.

Once we get that pod in with the new seats, I then need to make sure the boat is in good running order without any suprise expensive repairs that will keep me off the water. The pulpit removal is next in line assuming I don't need to replace shafts or have the starboard motor rebuilt. Or likely something I haven't thought of.
I also promised my wife we'd stand up on the platform with the Titanic theme song blasting while underway before it's torn out! (sshh)

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 2nd, '11, 17:22

Got three great tips from this thread:

1) Sim's duffle bag idea

2) Talisman beach- never been but will be there next year for sure

3) spend as little time docked at Oakland's as possible!

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 2nd, '11, 19:04

Peter- Suggestion from a man who raised 3 kids to adulthood on a B-31 and had a wife who was not boat-wise. Remove nothing the first year. Just make sure the boat is safe and running well. Despite what you may think, you may find you/they like some of the things you think you don't...and it will cost a lot more to put them back. My two cents.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Mar 2nd, '11, 20:16

Peter,

Listen to Walter use the boat for a season and learn its quirks. Saying the words "Just put a helm pod on and Bob's seating" are allot different and cheaper then actually doing it. A helm pod is a major!!!! modification. Make sure your power and running gear is good before going for all that bling.

We ran Chimera as a stock boat for a season just to see what we had. Of course in the end we found out it wasn't much and just started over. Hopefully you have better results.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 21:44

I appreciate the advice guys.

Not planning on moving as quickly as I may have insinuated.

Believe me the pulpit will be around for the rendezvous nobody will miss out on the pointing and laughing.

I do have one big rule the boat gets used from April until November. No projects that will lay me up unless I don't have a choice.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 3rd, '11, 12:17

JP if you didn't catch it. There is another thread where I have been discussing and getting input on changing my bridge set up.

I already purchased the seats and ordered the pod from Capt Pat.

For the time being were going to put in the pod with the wheel and gauges and then install the seats in the proper location. The engine controls will be remaining in their current location and I'll have the single lever controls done by a yard over the winter.

Bob has been nice enough to offer to tutor me through the glass work of getting the pod in. It should be a big learning experience for me and possibly give me some knowledge and confidence to tackle additional projects in the future.

Feel free to comment in that thread if you wish.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Mar 3rd, '11, 18:36

That's a Good rule in my opinion....use it.

Once it's Safe and seaworthy with all the needed safety gear...get out and use it. You'll be finding items you "NEED" and CAN'T be Without. Things like a Chart-plotter so you know exactly where you are in the waters you already know. You may find the New Upgraded Chip for the Plotter to be invaluable too, as now you can see Satellite Views of the stuff you already know is there. You'll need New Poles for the New Reels and New Pole Holders for the new Poles and...and the list will go on.

bertram31.com

Dock lines

Dock lines

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