The Lico Seating System

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 16th, '11, 12:01

He guys with much consideration. I've decided Bob's seat arrangement will work the best for my needs and the bench seat will be removed. Bob has been nice enough to start sharing details with me through PM but I figured it may make sense to talk through it in a public forum so others can benefit and Bob won't need to repeat himself once again.

The seats are made by Todd marine, the model he used "montauk" are no longer being made but after calling over to Todd they do have a replacement the gloucester. Some nice quality photos of bobs finished product are available on the toddusa website under boat seat gallery.

One of the interior arms are removed from the two seats to allow them to fit closely like movie theatre seating. I found the seats for $365 each on boat depot.com. Bob also used the garelick eel-in 77000 active seat suspension system.

I am sure bob will chime in but I will do my best to take photos and keep a materials list and cost for anyone who is interested.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 16th, '11, 12:14

Here is a link to the Todd Gloucester seat:

http://www.toddusa.com/productdetails.aspx?id=15&f=13

Here is a link to the photo section on the Todd website, bobs boat

http://www.toddusa.com/gallery.aspx

Here is a link to the Garelick seat suspension system

http://www.garelick.com/product.php?pnumber=77000

More info:

Montauk 22 1/2D x 25 1/2W
Gloucester 21 3/4D x 24 1/8W

Bob has mentioned in the past a very tight fit, the replacement to the montauk is slightly smaller and should only make things easier.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 16th, '11, 16:58

Just looking around at seat options.

Does anyone have any experience with the Garelick 940 flip up bolster? Or flip up bolster seats in general.

Just covering all the bases..

Pete

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 16th, '11, 18:15

peter that model 77000 does flip foward . that is how you set the shock absorbers from one to five. makes know sense what to ever to have the stock benth seat unless your a decedent of Gumby . every sport fishing boat in the world has two seats from a 70' rybo to a 30' chris craft . this is the only way to do it.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 16th, '11, 18:30

No bob I am talking about a flip up bolster where the front of the seat flips up and acts like a leaning post. I don't want to go the fold down route.

Here is a link.

http://www.garelick.com/product.php?pnumber=48945

Just thinking outloud

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 16th, '11, 21:25

ok i think the palmetto, sea ox, see vee ,or yellowfin has that fold out arrangement some of them are uncovered you can see for yourself. are you trying to stand and drive rather then sit?

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 08:54

I do stand on occasion. I am just looking at options and don't think I will go this route. What you've got going is pretty nice and these seats are double the price.

The advantage would be that the seat can be a bit closer while sitting possibly making it more comfortable. When you stand and flip up the bolster it would give you a little more room between the wheel and seat. In addition to some additional support.

With the garelick shock system the comfort level increases and I am not sure there is as much of an advantage to the bolster. The bolster may also make sitting less comfortable.

In any case it is an interesting option. Right now with the bench seat the distance between the front of the seat and the wheel is very comfortable while sitting. Although it is to low. When you stand up the distance between the front of the seat and the wheel is to close and I feel squeezed.

The wild card in all of this is that I don't have a pod on the console so my wheel is lower and further forward and copying your exact setup won't work. My seats will need to be further forward reducing leg room and the seat height may need to be reduced.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 10:31

all you have to do is come to the boat and take a seat behind the wheel and see for you self. i could see a little problem with leg room without pod, i am not sure. i desigh the hold seating arrangment for sitting down with full view of every thing within 1" of the bow something i could not do with the bench seat.i actually put a milk box down and added wood until my hands would just fall on the wheel with full view around me then bent the aluminum hoops and had them welded. dug drove the boat and is taller then me and was coftable. quite offten i am on the bridge going over the surface temp. charts to coordinate with electronics after finding a eddie while my son drives the boat or go down to make coffee the second seat is absolutely essential so much so i would not own the boat as a" lone wolf "sitting up there for 21/2 hours alone. the whole trip becomes a chore rather then a pleasure.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 10:49

Everything you are saying makes sense.

I am not interested in being up on the bridge by myself it would take the companionship of the adventure out of it.

The bench seat isn't very comfortable, it's not easy to get in and out and most important you have to strain to see a direct line over the bow to the water.

I like the idea of seating three people but it just doesn't work and your setup makes perfect sense. If I wait to change the seating arrangement until I can afford reworking the entire bridge, adding a pod single lever controls a new wheel, new gauges and electronics layout and all that goes along with it. The glass work rewiring etc. I am afraid I would be stuck with the bench seat for way to long.

I am afraid though that the distance forward to back and the height of the seats that is going to work for me now will be significantly different and ultimately may not work.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 11:02

there is another method . what kind of steering do you have this applies to coolair also. if you have hydralic there is another way to change seating and later down the road you can add pod if nothing else put gauges in there and keep thottles/gears where they be.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 11:11

You read my mind Bob, I was just taking a look at some photos I have to see if that is possible. It seems that the pod would fit without moving the throttles. What may be an issue is how far forward of the wheel they are once the pod is in place.

Here are photos I have of the helm, let me know what you think.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 11:32

don`t touch anything else we are just going to move the steering wheel back and change angle slightly. we have to make a f/g extension on the oem one . the wheel will feel more or less like driving your car.you will have your hands resting on the wheel while you will be much higher with 360 view.forget the pod /electronic this is a real old picture just look at angle and position of wheel ,just a extension on yours .

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 17th, '11, 11:48

Bob, it looks pretty but I prefer the wheel horizonal 'cause I drive standing up when the woo-woo hits the fan, either fishing or running. Now maybe a helm that would swivel either way......?

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 11:55

vic i am seated in a deep seat with a cushion arm on each side to hold me in plus i am sit back in the chair. way better then standing when the going gets tough. like being strap in a race car compare to standing in a bus holding the a railing when it makes a sudden turn ,stop or go you go on your ass .plus you have shock absorbers under the seat.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 12:01

I was saying pod but I meant the bubble, not pod.

*I deleted the rest of this post as the production note is out of date*

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 12:07

i would think your better off having capt. patrick make a plain f/g one without single levers that can be changed to S/L down the road. i will install it if you could take me across that 1' of water area around sexton island during bass season and let those other fools fight that inlet!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 13:11

That sounds like a plan I will contact captain pat. I'd actually prefer the fiberglass one. I've got my teak fix with the decks.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 14:48

Just looking at the wheel angle which gets to UVs point

It seems that Capt Pat has at least two different angles based on the above photos...

More:

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 15:18

It seems to me that the bubble on Buddy Boy and Zero Cavity lift the wheel higher but not aft to any significance.

The first photo in the string moves the wheel aft and up while dropping the angle not as much as Bob's but more then the others.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 15:35

lets look at the standing siting situation in a differant propective; you crossing the bay in 1 foot or less waves traveling at 30mph or so and and a ferry crosses your path 1/4 mile ahead BAM the boat first goes into the air over this 4' wave and then goes down . sitting in this chair you want to fall forward so you just grab the wheel and cushion the forward movement with your two arms as a natural shock absorber now here another guy in the same situation ------zip right over the dash into the front windshield or worst yet fall off into cockpit or right on the front deck. there is just nothing to stop you!! so lets go for a nice sit down with wife or son some day arrangement. just angle the wheel.if money was no object everglades and regulator have a adjustable tilt wheel like a car.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 17th, '11, 15:39

I have an autopilot to do the hard work while I'm sitting around drinking beer.....when the action starts, I'm on my feet spinning that wheel. A good autopilot changes the equation for me, I hardly ever touch the wheel offshore until I'm fishing.

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 15:44

i have a simrad ap-24 and thats all the more reason to sit back with my son, but sometimes i may not agree with the auto-pilot due to heavy head seas and tack slightly to quarter the waves , but i can be at a increased speed over the head on course.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 17th, '11, 16:06

OK Bob, guess it time for the hard truth....slanted wheels like that remind me of a Hyena Boat.

yo Fren'

UV

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 17th, '11, 16:50

It doesn't seem that the fixed depth of the flip up bolster seat is deep enough to accomodate the Garelick suspension system. I am going to call over and ask them for the heck of it, but at $900 a seat vs. $365 I am unlikely to want to go that route anyway.

Bob is selling me on the idea that I won't want to stand once I have the suspension system...

Pete

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Feb 17th, '11, 17:10

You will always stand at some point because it feels so good....

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 17:14

oh know not a hyena boat ------------thats it you won now i am going to the boatyard and kick the first sea ray i see . i can`t sleep tonight! how ever i do have the option of standing up perhaps i will till i am out of sight of any propective bertram owners. one other point sitting in that captain`s chair so very relaxed tends to make me nod off .funny thing is i captain a 51 bertram with those $ 5000.00 murray teak captain chains with the foot rest, and the same on the 70' trinity . after a hour or so i get a cramp in my legs but the cheapo 31 bertram with your feet on the floor feels like a mercedes after three hours or so.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 17:20

i stand in the cockpit fishing once we get to location same as you walterk.plus feeding the guys from the galley is alot of running back and forth. now brewster is even smarter not only is he sitting in mother natures worst seas he is on a skidd captain`s chair----talk about sleeping at the wheel!

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Feb 17th, '11, 19:51

http://stidd.com/products/500V5.htm

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 17th, '11, 21:51

I like to stand when the seas are up to 3. Over that I sit more. But I do tend to stand when going in the inlet since it gives me a better view around me and I can see the bar better.

I also find that sometimes standing gives me a better feel for what the boat is doing when running down sea, and it puts the throttle right at my finger tips. without having to lean forward.

I always stand when docking, and like UV says, when the fishing gets crazy.

I like Bob's two seat set up but the bench is used a lot on my boat. Usually running I always have company up there.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 17th, '11, 23:37

you said it at the end of your post. you have a bench seat right.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 18th, '11, 08:43

in answer to all the pm`s yes quite a bit of weight tranfer. the pod plus the siting position places about 350lbs 2 feet further toward the stern. bridge weight is directly over bulkhead support further enhancing the bow proud ride.
yes the height you siting in the chair would be about the same as putting your feet on the seat of the bench chair and sitting on the top of the back rest ,go to the boat and try it. needless to say your hands are in a relaxed position sitting on the top of the steering wheel.
the answer is yes you stand up turn around with your hands at your side the top of the single lever controls are right in your hands for backing down on a fish or maneneving on a fish and of course backing in to a slip with one glance you see the auto pilot rudder position at 0 and you could put that stern within 1/2" looking down from bridge. i hope i answer all pm`s.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 09:29

That is some seat Brew! The closeout items on there site start at 7k. I guess with the amount of trips you are making the comfort is worth the cost.

Finally got my hands on a copy of Marlin magazine with the Bertram article last night! Talk about a big bucks magazine. WOW

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 13:36

I found a pair of seats on closeout at Freeport marine and went down and picked them up during lunch today along with the seat Suspension.

The seats are Garelick 480 compact ultimate seat. The width with the arms is 23.5. The seats that Bob used from Todd that are no longer made are 25.5. Almost the same seat the only difference is the arm rest cushions are not included. I can buy them separately if I want.

The Garelick active seat suspension is the same as bobs.

For the time being I will mount them on a piece of scrap so I can set them on crates when I'm ready to figure out placement.

Spoke to Capt Pat this morning, nice to talk to you Cap. I am sending off a deposit for the console bubble. I won't be able to mock up the seat height and location until we get the pod on and wheel installed, but with this nice weather were having today it feels good to get something going.

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 14:52

Let's see if I can link to the pictures of Bob's seats from the Todd site..

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 14:57

As Bob described it to me he has two upside down U brackets mounted to a glassed sheet of coosa board. Then the seat suspension is mounted to the coosa board.

I am hoping to have mounting plates welded directly to the U shaped supports and I will bolt the suspension directly to it. I'd like to eliminate the coosa from the equation. Asthetically it looks real nice but it's just one more thing for me to screw up in the process.

Not sure if I will have to remove the original rails to make it fit, I hope not but we will see..

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 18th, '11, 17:15

you have the right idea mount them on plastic milk crates . make sure you have nice leg room plus your high enough to see 1" in front of bow chock and your perfectly coftable then take that dimention that is going to be the height of the U bend minus the thickness of the shock absorber mount and you will bring that to be made up and welded with flanges on bottom to mount to floor. notice i have to have a canvess covering my pod at all times at dock to prevent uv from destroying the 20 coat built up of varnish.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 18th, '11, 23:01

Bob

Yes I still have the bench seat.

I really like your set up but if I go that route I would have to give up the tackle box that is under the bench seat or I would have to figure out if I can live with a smaller one.

That will be my next decsion over the next couple of weeks since I do need a new seat. Depending how the supports are set up I guess I could get a 40 to 50 inch long tackle locker under there. Have to measure up the one I have tomorrow.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 19th, '11, 10:42

Tony,

You could mount the seats directly to a tackle box and maximize the space. You could also add a fold down seat to the starboard side of the helm. It wouldn't have a back but you could sit three and have some nice storage.

I am going to have to have a hole cut in the bridge cover and then have material added to go around the new seat back. Shouldnt be a big deal.

Spent the morning putting the seats together and mounting them with the shocks and common middle arm rest. The padding on these seats is massive and then add in the shock. It's gonna be nice.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 19th, '11, 12:41

Ok I mocked up the seats and went down to the boat to take measurements. It's going to be a tight fit. I am looking forward to measuring Bobs layout tomorrow.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '11, 15:28

i don`t want to be resposible ----just saying--- you can and will fall asleep at the wheel that is how nice it is! i had to put speakers in the side panel of the bridge to keep my awake!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '11, 15:46

i have no side pannel in the cockpit so i put what ever the targeted species we are into that day in a seperate tackle box under the gunnel up forward. and the ditch bag under my seat, captain and co-captain pfd`s are there to. been in the water three times ------once injured ,if i had half a brain i would have a auto release life raft instead of valise under cockpit hatch.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 19th, '11, 18:38

The padding on these seats are ridiculous. I'll meet you tomorrow at OYC after 10:30 if your still planning on going down.

My wife thinks I am crazy and I have a serious case of cabin fever. Not only did I play with the seat height but I took a music stand and used it to mock up the steering wheel height and angle.

Love that shot.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '11, 20:56

peter when i desigh the seating i had to avoid the duel pedestal arangement used on all the custom sport fisherman because i wanted to create a space for my ditch bag. so with that in mine i did just what you did ,after all i am keeping this boat in the family after i am dust. my son is just a little taller but the real owner (my grandson) looks like he is taking after son`s wife side like her brother 6'4". you can see from the files you down loaded the chair cannot go back any further! the mounting flanges are only 1/2" from the curverture of the bridge sole. call me on cell at 10;30am the oyc put up a beautiful hand made iron ornate gate with gate code .

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 19th, '11, 21:45

Peter

I am watching your progress. I measured my box this morning and it is about 47 inches long. Of course, if i made the seat a little higher, maybe I drop a set of draws on one side but pick up the difference in the height. Have to think about that.

I could mount it to the box then the box to the floor, or depending on how the support legs set up, I could set up a clamping systems so the box can be taken off if for some reason I needed to. Like if we decided to cruise the boat for a week instead of fish it. Then I could putll the box off, and set up storage for the raft in a valise and or the ditch bag.

Once you start thinking about this you have more options than you realize.

Not sure Peter but you might find it is no more expensive to make a whole new bridge cover versus cutting and piecing.

My bridge cover is fairly new but the guy did a so so job on it. Tough finding a good canvas guy.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 22nd, '11, 07:09

Tony you will certainly need to move the seats up and back to the point that the exterior passenger arm is outside the port bulkhead. I am feeling more comfortable that I will be putting in the console pod. The one issue with this if you don't put in a pod is that you may to be to far from the wheel or I guess you could drop the exterior arm on the passenger chair.

I'll put my seat in place after I remove the bench and before the pod goes in to see what the deal is.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 22nd, '11, 07:17

Went down to Bobs boat on Sunday, I could poke around Bobs boat for hours and miss half of the things he's done. If nothing else Bob has really thought out every possible design solution. Thanks so much Bob for taking the time with this rookie.

Also got to meet Whaler1777 while I was done there, super nice guy and I got to see the sedan in progress. It is going to be one heck of a boat.

I've got to say after seeing the scope of work Bob has done and seeing Whalers sedan in pieces I am feeling more confident in tackling some of these smaller projects.

I am starting to think I may dump the railing and windshield while I am working on the bridge to get that cleaner look.

Pete

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Feb 22nd, '11, 21:46

Guys - Thanks for all the pix...been thinking of doind something similar myself. You've just planted the seeds.

giff

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 22nd, '11, 21:59

Peter

I measured my current tackle locker on Saturday, and it's 74 inches long. I figure the seats take up about 50 inches so it might work.

The only problem I have right now is that I can't get on the boat the measure everything up. The boat has a full canvas, plus I can't get in the yard with a ladder since it is all locked up. The sand is also kind of soft around the boat. The yard will not open for another two weeks then we will see were we take this. I keep on thinking about Bob's seating and making it work. Otherwise it will be a call to Pompenette to get a new bench seat made. I figure either waqy I am in this thing for a grand.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 22nd, '11, 22:51

peter thanks for all the atta boys like i said i there to help you and any of the other brothers on this board . i learned fiberglass technique from capt. patrick and still cannot paint match so every project that entails painting becomes a nightmare . paint and sand then do it again until you start getting something without ripples,orangepeel and every damm bug sticking to it. unfoutunally i cannot transport my boat so i am stuck with the vain attemped at painting.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 23rd, '11, 07:18

Tony 74" must be a typo?

The seat width at the arms is 46" and 40" from the edge of the seats only.

The important measurement is from the center of the helm to the outer edge of the sole before it starts to curve. That's approximate 29". This means the base is going to be smaller then the overall width of the seats.

A seat height of around 20" puts your feet flat on the deck. Subtract out about 8" for the seat and mount plate. Support will need to be about 12" high.

So when all is said and done were talking about having 10" of height and 40" width of usable space under the seat.

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The Lico Seating System

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