The Fly Fishing Show - Somerset, NJ

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 3rd, '11, 15:23

The fly fishing show is coming up. January 21-23. I will most likely be driving out on Friday the 21st if anyone would like to join me. Will be leaving Babylon mid morning and should be home by 6pm.

I am most interested in attending two seminars fly fishing for mako sharks and big game fly fishing. Also looking to walk the exhibit floor etc.

If anyone wants to join me please let me know.

There are also shows in Marlborough, MA and Philly.

The schedule is posted at www.flyfishingshow.com

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 24th, '11, 13:23

Hey Walter the show was a lot of fun, I hope you made out ok with the snow. I thought I'd post instead of sending a PM for those who may have interest.

I saw a number of seminars

Conway bowman is a guide out of San Diego who specializes in fly fishing for mako sharks he gave a great seminar. Not much different then our NE sharking but it was interesting to learn about his tools and techniques. One of the most interesting things he uses is a release stick which was made by predator but is no longer being made. He didn't know of anyone who is making one of these.

I saw 3 tarpon seminars, bob beagley, Jake Jordan and Andy mills. All about fishing for tarpon in the keys very interesting stuff. Jake Jordan also did a seminar on fly fishing for billfish which I unfortunately did not make.

A friend attended a seminar put on by the two smith sons about fishing for bones in the Bahamas something I wish I had attended.

Also Sarah gardener did a presentation on the Albie fishing in harkers island, she runs a guide service with her husband Brian horsley. They get some big albies (20lbs +) down there in the fall along with redfish, stripers and other stuff all winter long.

As far as gear goes there was some interesting stuff. TFO came out with a new line of salt water rods really nice stuff. Scott rods is now making a very nice 15 wt rod. And there is a new company in town Sea Level they are out of CA and make an interesting combination of 14 and 16 wt rods and reels for tuna and sharks.

Lots of great tyers and some really interesting stuff to look at. That's the short of it.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 24th, '11, 16:46

Sounds like fun. There's a dedicated Mako fly fisherman in Montauk with a 31 Bertram called Tippet that has solved his Mako releasing in a very unusual way. I witnessed it on my last trip with him and it worked 100% of the time. His flies are all tube flies which he threads on a 2 ft wire leader (not IGFA 12") to which he connects a low quality Eagle Claw non-stainless hook, the size you would probably use for Fluke. Once his fish is played out and alongside and the tippet leader is touched, he (or his mate) then grab the wire leader with a gloved hand and give it a sharp yank. The hook straightens out and pops out of the fishes mouth and he gets his fly back without ever even touching the fish. His premise is that you would never straighten out the thinner hook fighting the fish on a flyrod with a 16-20 lb tippet, but once you grabbed the wire and pulled hard against a decent (50 lb and up) Mako, the hook would straighten and pop out. Done quickly and sharply, it worked every time. If I hadn't seen it myself I wouldn't have believed it. I normally just wrote off the lure and sent the fish swimming away with it in his mouth. For what it's worth.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 24th, '11, 19:27

Do you know specifically which hook he's using?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 24th, '11, 19:45

I'll try and find out from him if he hasn't gone down south for the winter.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 24th, '11, 19:54

With a 12 wt fly rod you cant pull harder than 9 lbs or it will snap.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 25th, '11, 09:43

Brew,

You may be right I have never used a scale on my 12wts. I am planning on picking up some 14 or 16 wt rods for the offshore stuff. Some of the newer offshore fly rods are adopting the fiberglass composite technology Wuxi sacrifices some casting ability but significantly improves the fighting abilities of a fly rod.

The one thing I would point out is that when fighting a fish vertically this may be true but when a big fish runs on the fly rod and you point the rod directly at the fish there is very little pressure on the rod and is all on the reel. When you add a 100 feet of fly lines drag in the water the tension on the business end of the line increases.

I am sure you are well aware of all this stuff but I point this out, part of the reason I attend a lot of these seminars is to see how other fisherman apply techniques and see how I can adapt it to my fishing. Part of the reason some of the best fly fisherman like Andy mills can land a 200lb tarpon on a 12 wt rod or in some cases less is that they DO NOT use the rod when fighting a fish but rather try to keep the rod as straight as possible until the fish gets close to the boat. Also the drag is kept somewhat light on the reel and additional pressure is applied with your fingers on the line.

I've caught my share of blue fin on the fly on a 12wt without a problem. I've also seen a few experienced anglers watch a fish change directions and go under the boat, before you know it the rod explodes into pieces.

I'm still learning and of course that's the fun of it. I am intreaged by the idea of using a hook that can straigten out under the right circumstances but I hope Walter can get more info as there would need to be a lot of trial and error to find the right hook.

Walter I have no plans of going IGFA legal with shark fishing the formula I've used is 3' of 40-80lb single strand and 30lb Tippett with an 80lb but section.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 25th, '11, 09:55

Well I could go on for hours about fly fishing and not get any work done, I'll try not to.

I would add that what I do in my flats boat fishing the sand flats in the great south bay is not all that common nor is fishing the marshland between cap tree and jones, especially as you get into the skinny mud flats.

The one thing I've learned is that it's nothing new and the guys down south who've been doing this stuff for years have it down pat. With regard to tarpon fishing in the keys there is a well established technique of where and to which fish to cast to when you see small schools 2s or 3s swimming across the flats. You don't hit the the lead fish but you put it on his back and hope to lure in the 2nd or 3rd fish. If you miss you don't disturb the lead fish which the others are following and it gives you a second shot.

Once I applied these techniques and others my seeing to hooking ratio went up dramatically.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 25th, '11, 10:04

Peter, after many drinks a bet was made at Pelican Landing in Key West and a scale and 12wt Sage were put to the test. It blew up at 8 lbs. My point being that you do not worry as much about the hook going strait because you cant pull that hard. If you grab the wire and yank, that should be your test.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 25th, '11, 10:38

Yes I agree although I'd test the hook with a straight line from the reel to the hook and make sure the Tippett breaks before the hook bends, with little to no bend in the rod Then figure how much hand pressure I need to straighten the hook.

If you hold the line in your hand and have some one pull back with a bent rod you will see the pressure is fairly minimal. If while holding the line you have someone point the rod directly at you and tighten up on the drag you have significantly more pressure. Its the simple idea that you as the angler are at the disadvantage of the lever and the fish has the advantage. That is also a big reason why most of the 14-16 wt rods are either 8 or 8'6" because as you reduce the length of the lever you increase the pressure at the tip of the rod.

Of course none of this matters if you have a 100lb tuna or mako circling directly under the boat. Unless you use the boat to get away from the fish to get a better angle on him.

That all being said using an 8' 16 wt fiberglass composite rod I'd venture to guess you can get 12 to 16 lbs of drag as long as you don't lift the rod above parallel with the water. But I'm just guessing.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 25th, '11, 12:08

Hey brew. I am most likely going to pick up two of those rods from. www.sealevelflyfishing.com the 16 wt. Maybe I'll bring out some beer and we put them through a few tests to see what the real deal is. Hopefully not watch them explode.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 25th, '11, 12:14

Peter Im ready when you are. Maybe they could tell you What they will pull before we test them.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 25th, '11, 13:50

You might also want to look into the offshore rods sold by Cam Seigler. they come with a gimbeled butt with a removable cap. He and his son Cam jr are pros and know offshore fly fishing needs. I have an Abel, Albright and Seigler and find the Seigler softer at the tip section and stiffer/stronger as it gets closer to the reel seat area. All 3 have foregrips. The Seigler reminds me of a fly version of an offshore standup rod where you can put a lot of pressure on a fish from the base, yet be protected from breakoffs by the soft tip. The rod, when I bought it was the most reasonable of the three. Abel no longer makes/sells them. So much for their lifetime guarantee. Scott makes an excellent offshore rod too, but they're not cheap. Walter

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Jan 25th, '11, 14:20

Thanks Walter. The Cam Sigler rods look almost identical to the sea level stuff and actually looking at their websites the product description and price is almost exact. The sea level stuff is made overseas and I'd guess they are made by the same factory. Again just guessing.

I've got 6 Scott S3S rods from 8 to 12 wt. My favorite rod by far. But I don't think the graphite rods are the way to go with the 14-16. Checked out the Scott, TFO and Loomis. My buddy has a 15 Loomis with a Billy pate that I've used but I don't like that set up at all. Besides big bucks for an occasional use item.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 10:23

I've got a couple of buddies in my fly rod club who are really into rod design and building. Older guys with lots of time on their hands.

They have come up with something fairly interesting. They started using a 1 piece 8' lamiglass blank to build a fly rod. There is obviously no wt rating to the rod but it throws lines up to 700 grain and the Rio leviathan float line (12-15wt) well. It casts fairly well and has really nice fighting power. The one thing I haven't been able to find is a 12+ wt rod in a single piece. More often then not a fly rod fails at the ferrules so a 1 piece is very attractive from that stand point.

They've built two of these rods so far and I am hoping to get my hands on one to play with.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Feb 18th, '11, 11:10

I don't think I've ever seen a 1 piece 13 to 15 weight being offered by any of the rod manufacturers. Big rod fishermen tend to be more experienced and don't high-stick very often. That's the point where ferrule failure would most often happen. Otherwise, the ferrules have mostly been a for travel issue. I would imagine one piecers would be a limited market for charter guys, and even on charters, most clients bring their own rods. The ones your guys are experimenting with would be great for flats boats Tarpon fishermen. Especially because they sound like they cast well, which is almost not an issue when billfishing.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 11:37

One of the guys that had one made does some tarpon fishing in the keys. He hasn't used it yet but they are going down in April and will try it out. I am thinking it may be a nice shark and tuna rod for me well see.

Cape fear used to make a 1 piece 14 wt rod with the hexagon technology. It is an awesome rod to cast and fights well. My buddy had gotten two blanks from them before they went out of business. The guy that built them owns one and another guy I know owns the other I've spent years trying to convince them to sell the rod to me with no luck.

The guy that had the rod made up for tarpon lives in new Suffolk he will likely stop by the rendezvous. I will make sure he brings the rod along with him.

I've got a Thomas and Thomas horizon 12 and a Scott s3s 12. Both 4 piece rods. But for something bigger the new temple fork blue water for $250 is hard to beat. The sea level rod which is exactly like the cam seigler and the old loomis 15. Are not fun to cast at all.

By the way I redid my tibor gulf streams, I got on almost 500 yards of 30 lb power pro and plenty of room for the leviathan line ni don't think I will ever consider a bigger reel then that.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Feb 18th, '11, 13:40

I agree the Cam Seiglers with the heavy lower sections and the fast tip (almost the same leverage concept as standup rods) are no fun to cast, but offshore where you're teasing/chumming fish up close, casting is nowhere near the issue as it is with 8-9-10 weights. Still, it's nice to have if you can have both size and castability.
By the way, at the rendezvous, there's a very accessible flat sandy beach between the Ferry and the concrete pier our slips are connected to that looks awful fishy at night, reason being the lights on the pier. Would have been tempted to try it late at night, post partying with some Clouser minnows, but hadn't bought any fly equipment.
Crazy as it seems, every once in a while check Ebay on those Cape Fear blanks. You never know...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 18th, '11, 14:46

Noted I will bring some fly gear.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 20th, '11, 22:25

Peter

Building a rod is not that difficult. Have one of these guys show you how to do it. I bet you could have it done in week, spending some time doing it while you watch TV.

I used to do some building many years ago. I could do a trolling rod in a week.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Feb 22nd, '11, 09:09

Tony, I've got a friend who is very skilled and has a great set up for rod building. He will basically build anything I want for cost.

Walter and Brew my buddy is dropping off that 1 piece 8' rod built on the lami blank. Maybe we can meet up halfway at Brew's and check it out sometime soon.

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 15:08

I spent some time over the weekend down at the dock playing with that new 8' rod.

While it does have the lifting/fighting power beyond what my 12 wts are capable, I really didn't love how it cast at least in comparison to my Thomas and Thomas Horizon and Scott S3S 12 wts. I am planning on giving it back and looking else where.

The 8' rod left me with the feeling that the tip was missing, like when the tip of a 4 piece comes off and you try to pick up the line and realize there is no rod to pick up the line. Probably will look at something a little longer then 8'

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 2nd, '11, 16:00

Most are 8'6" when you get to 13-15 weights. Don't expect too much from them in the casting department as the tandem hook/multi feathered/popper head billfish flies at their lightest are fairly heavy and air resistant. It's usually a lopping throw at a teased in fish when the boat is thrown into neutral. When drifting/chumming casting is easier as you're usually drifting sideways to the sea and a clear backcast or two is possible. Trolling for billfish will get you an outrigger on a backcast.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 16:20

At this point I'm only worried about a rod to use on my B31, with gassers billfish are not in the cards. I'm basically interested in sharks, blue fin, mahis and skip jack. We've managed to land blue fin and sharks on 12 wts. the others on 10wts. It would be nice to have a 15wt type rod if a bigger mako makes his way to the boat. Any luck with blue fin has been fishing below the surface with a sinking line or running and gunning and a good castable rod is important, I may need to just deal with the 12 for that.

BTW I did find a 6' dehooker from ARC ordered from Melton it's on back order. When your buddy comes out of hibernation I'd still be interested on the specific hook he's using.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 2nd, '11, 18:50

Peter- Thanks for the reminder. I will e-mail him as he promised to let me know and hasn't.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 2nd, '11, 19:43

Have either of you guys ever fished with Bob Robl on the north shore. I have several times, although not in last two years, and what a blast. At night on the Nissequogue River the hundreds of stripers would rise like trout. Bob had me sight casting to them all noght long, what a great time.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 2nd, '11, 20:01

I don't know bob but I know of him. Ive spent countless nights fishing cold spring harbor. A good friend is a scientist at the lab and we have access to a lot of private land up there. Tons of great fly fishing from land up there and a number of areas that are accessible to the public. Especially good at night.

I once rented a canoe in the nissequage and spotted a 20lb bass about 100 yards north of rt 25. Mid day in the spring.

There used to be a great fly shop in cold spring harbor as well. The boat ramp in CSH is a state ramp for those with a flats boat.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 3rd, '11, 12:37

Peter- Just heard from him. The hooks are Eagle Claw Alaskan
L1182FS 7/0 Salmon/Halibut NKTEFLON. He rigs them on solid wire leaders long enough to get a good grip with a gloved hand and yank. Walter

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 3rd, '11, 13:37

Thanks that's great.

bertram31.com

The Fly Fishing Show - Somerset, NJ

The Fly Fishing Show - Somerset, NJ

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