NOAA''S CATCH SHARE POLICY SETS A TREACHEROUS COURSE

The Main Sand Box for bertram31.com

Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce

User avatar
Capt. DQ
Senior Member
Posts: 1025
Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
Location: P'cola, FL

NOAA''S CATCH SHARE POLICY SETS A TREACHEROUS COURSE

Post by Capt. DQ »

This is long but this will shock every fisherman in the USA now and for future generations to come, that you/we are losing our freedoms and rights, right before your eyes without a vote or say so. Please do what Capt. Dave asks everybody to do at the bottom of the page, if you ever care about having a right to fish again in the USA. Researched by Capt. Dave Tilley. Please pass this along to all your fishing friends.
  • (1). NOAA''S CATCH SHARE POLICY SETS A TREACHEROUS COURSE
    Coastal Community Expresses Concerns Over New Federal Fisheries Agenda


    (11/5/2010) - Assistant Administrator of Fisheries Eric Schwaab this week announced that recreational anglers were being completely ignored by the administration. In the National Catch Share Policy release issued by NOAA Fisheries Service, Schwaab said angler opposition to privatizing our national oceans was being disregarded, and announced that NOAA Fisheries would not be listening to individual anglers anytime soon.



    While NOAA''s new federal policy of ignoring input from within the coastal communities was embraced by some members of the national fishing tackle industry, the new policy has raised serious concerns with grassroots political organizations and coastal legislators.



    "I have expressed considerable concern over the impact that catch shares may have on the recreational sector," said Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ). "I believe our priority should be improving the science and management of fisheries and that promoting another management tool until those issues have been fixed will only continue to hurt our coastal communities."



    As a national grassroots political action organization representing the rights of sal*****er anglers, the Recreational Fishing Alliance (RFA) is extremely frustrated by NOAA''s new direction. "Mr. Schwaab''s take on this dangerous policy is laughable at best," said RFA Executive Director Jim Donofrio. "Mr. Schwaab claimed to hear from the angling community, but I''m not sure where he was at the time he heard it, perhaps at some Environmental Defense Fund junket, certainly not anything that local anglers were invited to."



    On Thursday, NOAA officially released their new national policy "encouraging the consideration and use of catch shares," a fisheries management scheme which Schwaab called "an effective tool for ending overfishing." According to Donofrio, catch shares will end overfishing primarily by eliminating fishermen. "When we testified before Congress about catch shares in April, we made it clear that our allied groups do not support catch shares in the recreational sector," Donofrio said. In testimony on behalf of RFA, Marine Retailers Association of America (MRAA), Fishing Rights Alliance, United Boatmen, United Boatmen of New York, Maryland Sal*****er Sportsmen''s Association (MSSA), National Association of Charterboat Operators (NACO), Southern Kingfish Association (SKA), Conservation Cooperative of Gulf Fishermen (CCGF), New York Sportfishing Federation, and New York Fishing Tackle Trade Association, Donofrio told a congressional committee that the use of catch shares in the recreational fishing sector "would destroy the traditional open access structure and collapse the entrance of new participants in the fishery."



    "All of the aforementioned groups, including the RFA, are adamantly opposed to any catch share program in the recreational fishing sector, in any way, shape or form," Donofrio testified, adding "This is a fact that cannot be compromised. We do not want any discussion on any program that compromises traditional open access of seasons, size limits and bag limits."



    "I also believe that by specifically targeting local fishing businesses for catch shares will only continue to hinder growth in our coastal economies," Pallone said, adding "overly restrictive management of fisheries is already hurting coastal businesses and we need to pursue policies that promote growth in coastal communities which is why I introduced the Coastal Jobs Creation Act and the Flexibility in Rebuilding American Fisheries Act."



    "We''ve fought too hard and for too long to keep this catch share policy out of our sector, we cannot let NOAA continue to ramrod this policy through Councils in direct contradiction to the wishes of our fishing community," Donofrio said. "Clearly our federal bureaucracy is not listening to the will of the people."



    "At a time when our retailers are suffering from reduced participation due to the struggling economy, the last thing we need is a new federal policy designed purely to reduce angler effort," said MRAA President Phil Keeter. "We need more recreational fishermen, not less."



    "Obviously you''ve got a public resource which should remain public, and no one should have to pay to access it," said SKA Director Jack Holmes. "It''s been a tradition in America since before the Declaration of Independence was signed."



    "MSSA remains adamantly opposed and wants no part of catch shares," said Dave Smith, President of the Maryland sportfishing group.



    "When the draft Action Agenda was sent to us to review, I made it clear to Russ Dunn (NOAA National Policy Advisor for Recreational Fisheries) and Eric Schwaab that we did not want any catch share plan in the Gulf," said CCFG and NACO representative Capt. Bob Zales, II. "When we were asked to attend the Recreational Fishing Summit back in April we were told that business as usual from the past was over and there would be a new effort of cooperation between NOAA/NMFS and all recreational anglers. It is clear to me that we have been duped once again." Zales added that as a member of the federal Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee (MAFAC), he was "grossly offended" by references made to "pilot recreational catch share programs" which NOAA included in their Recreational Sal*****er Fisheries Action Agenda released last week.



    RFA says the NOAA Catch Share Policy is wrought with catch phrases and flimsy definitions, some of which are especially dangerous to future sportfishing opportunities, even non-commercial gamefish species. "We''re extremely concerned about the impact the NOAA catch shares policy could have on Highly Migratory Species (HMS) fisheries and offshore tournaments," Donofrio said, explaining how the final policy includes a catch share definition that unequivocally stops all fishing once limits are met. "The way it''s written, this excessively restrictive definition could even prohibit catch and release fishing which is a major component of the nation''s recreational billfish fisheries including sailfish and marlin."



    Donofrio said the idea of individual catch share privileges and fish tags in mixed commercial/recreational fisheries like red snapper, sea bass and scup were bad enough before the policy was set. "We knew that assigning privilege and charging royalties for harvested species would eliminate the average center console angler, but now the fate of offshore access is completely thrown into question when you read the whole policy."



    In an article by Richard Gaines of the Gloucester Times, RFA managing director Jim Hutchinson said "When you read this release and see how Mr. Schwaab is promoting catch shares through a $2.2 million funding initiative supported by Wal-Mart and Intel Corporation, it''s hard to think how anyone in our recreational fishing industry can be anything other than outraged at this announcement."



    "This is bureaucracy at its best, you have a federal law which mandates you fix the data problem, but instead of meeting the initiative in the allotted deadline, you host outreach sessions, reallocate funding toward new initiatives and send out press releases," Hutchinson told John Oswald of the Asbury Park Press.



    "There''s nothing palatable about this catch share manifesto, especially the way that NOAA is jamming it down our throats," Hutchinson said.




    About Recreational Fishing Alliance
    The Recreational Fishing Alliance is a national, grassroots political action organization representing recreational fishermen and the recreational fishing industry on marine fisheries issues. The RFA Mission is to safeguard the rights of sal*****er anglers, protect marine, boat and tackle industry jobs, and ensure the long-term sustainability of our Nation''s sal*****er fisheries. For more information, call 888-JOIN-RFA or visit www.joinrfa.org.
(2).Congressman Walter Jones Questions NOAA Catch Share Policy


WASHINGTON -- Nov. 8, 2010 - Today U.S. Congressman Walter B. Jones (R-North Carolina) sent a letter to Dr. Jane Lubchenco, Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), opposing NOAA's recently announced National Catch Share Policy and demanding answers regarding its development. Jones called the policy "totally unnecessary for species protection." He expressed outrage over NOAA's announcement of a $2.2 million grant program to advance its catch shares agenda, which will put Americans out of work and is opposed by the vast majority of fishermen. Jones believes that "to the extent that solid science demonstrates that reductions in catch in any given fishery are necessary, there are far better options than catch shares for achieving those reductions." Jones has long opposed catch shares and is working in Congress to block funding for implementation of new catch share programs.

The Congressman asked Dr. Lubchenco to respond to the following questions:

1. What specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to promulgate its National Catch Share policy?

2. Your staff has informed me that $1 million of the $2.2 million catch share grant program is being provided by NOAA. Exactly which account is that money coming from? The Asset Forfeiture Fund? Which specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to spend money for this purpose? Is it the official policy of the agency to spend millions to put people out of work?

3. Is it NOAA's policy to ignore the will of fishing communities - the vast majority of whom oppose catch shares - and to rig the council process to favor implementation of new catch shares programs?


The text of the letter sent to Administrator Lubchenco follows:

"Dear Administrator Lubchenco:

On behalf of the North Carolina fishing communities I am privileged to represent, I would like to express my strong opposition to the National Catch Share Policy and the $2.2 million catch share grant program which the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced last week. It is astonishing that at a time of near record unemployment and exploding federal deficits, NOAA stubbornly continues its agenda to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to advance a catch share policy that is totally unnecessary for species protection and that all acknowledge will put more Americans out of work.

As you know, the Magnuson-Stevens Act sets the framework for fisheries management in this country. Under the act, fisheries management councils are given the option to use a variety of measures to manage fish stocks, only one of which is catch shares. The act does not establish a preference for catch shares. The act does not authorize the agency to promulgate a policy to encourage fishermen and councils to select catch shares over other management options. The act does not authorize the agency to spend taxpayer money to support the efforts of special interest groups seeking to petition the councils and the agency to establish more catch share programs. But yet with last week's announcement, this is exactly what NOAA is doing.

Furthermore, it appears that NOAA - through the Secretary of Commerce - is selecting fishery management council members based on their allegiance to catch shares. Collectively, these actions leave the impression that NOAA is attempting to hijack the council process in order to impose its catch shares agenda.

Therefore, I would appreciate answers to the following questions:

1. What specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to promulgate its National Catch Share policy?

2. Your staff has informed me that $1 million of the $2.2 million catch share grant program is being provided by NOAA. Exactly which account is that money coming from? The Asset Forfeiture Fund? Which specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to spend money for this purpose? Is it the official policy of the agency to spend millions to put people out of work?

3. Is it NOAA's policy to ignore the will of fishing communities - the vast majority of whom oppose catch shares - and to rig the council process to favor implementation of new catch shares programs?

In closing, to the extent that solid science demonstrates that reductions in catch in any given fishery are necessary, there are far better options than catch shares for achieving those reductions. The last thing the federal government should be doing in these economic times is spending millions of taxpayer dollars to expand a policy that will put even more Americans out of work.

I hope you will take these words to heart, and I look forward to your response."

(3). Here come catch shares: How NOAA and the Environmental Defense
Fund plan to destroy North Carolina’s working watermen

Capt. Dave speaking here,

When my late father was 24 years old, he returned to Hatteras from Long Island, New York. He returned because the Great Depression had left him jobless and standing in a bread line. He came back home and he moved back in with his parents. He returned so that he could have a place to sleep and a meal that he had provided for himself, a meal that he earned by commercial fishing with his father on the family-owned boat.

While fishing the family boat commercially for the meager income provided by fish prices during the depression, he did what young people in America have always done --- he dreamed of his future and he hatched a plan. The plan he hatched was crazy. The elders in the village told him so. They said it would not work. They shook their heads at his ideas.

And he did what the young in America have always done -- he put his crazy plan in motion. He started an offshore charter fishing fleet. He launched the first of three Albatross boats in 1937 with charter fishing as his top priority and with commercial fishing as Plan B.

And just how did that crazy charter fishing concept work out?

Well, in a study sanctioned by North Carolina Sea Grant and carried out by economists and a sociologist from the University of North Carolina-Wilmington and North Carolina State University, the charter fishing business is now a $650 million dollar a year industry for North Carolina with two thirds of that revenue coming from visitors from out of state. Not so crazy after all.

And how much does the state of North Carolina spend promoting its charter fishing industry? The answer is zero ($0.00) dollars. That lack of government support has never been an issue or concern for North Carolina’s fishermen. Why? Because the same independent -- some would say hard-headed -- drive and determination that fueled my father’s belief in his dream continues to fuel the dreams and ambitions of the men and women who make a living by fishing both charter and commercially today.

Since the founding of this state, it has been accepted as fact that if you work hard, if you persevere, if you are determined, and if you are lucky, you can be a fisherman. You can own your boat. You can be your own boss. You can feed your family and the larger community. And you can put smiles on the faces and adventurous memories in the minds of countless charter customers who you help experience the wonder and mysteries of our waters.

The only apparent problem with this scenario of being independent, of being a self reliant contributor to society, of providing a service for others is that you do not necessarily get rich. The fishermen do not seem to find this to be a problem, but an alleged environmental group called the Environmental Defense Fund (EDF) does.

That’s right, even though its employees do not live here or fish for a living, this group has decided that North Carolina’s fishing communities need to be fixed. Or, in their words, they need to be “more vibrant.”

EDF has published an endless stream of slick brochures and publications, held numerous conferences, and attempted to enlist numerous fishermen in an attempt to explain how society -- make that the government -- can implement a plan that will “create vibrant fishing communities”.

The plan is called catch shares. If you eat fish or like to catch fish, catch shares will affect you.

Catch shares are here. They are, as you read this, being implemented by NOAA through the National Marine Fisheries Service. The goal is to reduce the number of working watermen in the United States by more than 60 percent. The propaganda “informs” fishermen that the ones left standing, after their neighbors are economically destroyed, will be able to get rich and somehow fishing towns and villages will then “be vibrant.”

Welcome to catch shares. They are designed to kill off the fishermen. The infrastructure will then die and then somehow, according to the slick brochures produced by EDF and edited by the finest legal minds they can hire, fewer fishing boats and fewer fishermen will result in “vibrant fishing communities.”

Just what is a catch share? A catch share is an exclusive guarantee that whoever holds the catch share has the exclusive right to harvest a certain percentage of the total allowable catch of a particular species of marine life. That’s a mouthful, and you read it correctly.

It does not grant the right to catch a certain number of fish each year. How many fish can be caught is a number that National Marine Fisheries Service already determines and has imposed on fishermen for years. So if catch shares is not about saving fish, since we already have that scientific process in place, you may be wondering just what the purpose is.

The catch share program is not about how many fish can be caught. Catch shares is only about who gets to catch fish. Catch shares can be bought, they can be sold, and they can be leased or traded.

So the logical question is what is the conservation advantage of catch shares? The answer is that there is no conservation advantage. Catch shares policy is about taking the right to fish away from the masses, from those individuals who want to become fishermen for a lifetime or for a day, and giving that right to harvest fish to a select few. Catch shares is designed to privatize the ocean. As a free American citizen, you might want to think about that one for awhile.

Who will get catch shares? Basically, it will be those with the best past history of landings. That’s right -- those who have caught the most in the past will be selected to keep on fishing -- in the name of conservation and, of course, “vibrant fishing communities.”

But it gets a lot more interesting and complicated than the simple picture I’ve presented. You see, the Environmental Defense Fund has been the driving force behind this concept. The group has spent thousands and thousands of dollars promoting this concept. (In the name of full disclosure, I went to Vancouver, B.C., on EDF’s dime to learn about it.)

Now what did EDF do in the spring of 2009? Why they sent their second ranking employee -- a $300,000-a- year lawyer -- to a national conference of investment brokers and venture capitalists to spread the word about an investment opportunity, something called catch shares. That’s right. EDF thinks that Wall Street should own catch shares!

So if Wall Street owns catch shares, where do you think North Carolina’s small-time fishermen fit in? Seen any evidence lately that Wall Street has any concern about increasing the number of “vibrant fishing communities?” And yet apparently EDF wants Wall Street to own catch shares.

This corporate ownership of exclusive rights is not a wild guess. It is a reality.

The Alaskan king crab fishery is Exhibit A, and in the four years since the imposition of catch shares the crew member shares of the catch have dropped from 50 percent to 30 percent, while the fleet has decreased by two-thirds.

Okay, so most of you are not worried about what happens to the commercial sector of fishing.

Well, last week NOAA publically announced that it wants all professional fishermen to be controlled by catch shares. That’s right. Charter boats and headboats are the next to have catch shares. Having previously begun implementation in the commercial sector in Alaska and New England, NOAA and National Marine Fisheries have made public the plan to begin implementation in the recreational sector -- with charter boats and headboats the first targets.

Worldwide various forms of catch shares have been in place for over 25 years. Where implemented, the least amount that the local fishing fleets have been diminished is 30 percent.

I suspect that I am not the only one who thinks that what North Carolina needs right now is an economic boost rather than another economic hit. Further reducing the ability of the charter/headboat industry to produce revenue sounds like economic insanity.

Well, you may be thinking that at least that those who want catch shares are leaving the recreational fishermen who do not fish on charter boats alone. You might want to be aware that a plan has already been suggested that, in the Gulf of Mexico, recreational fishing rights should be sold to the highest bidder. First, we come after the commercials, then we get the charters, and next we go after those recreational types.

The concept of catch shares is straight forward. The exclusive right to harvest fish will be owned by the entity with the most money, period! And those individual owner/operators? Well, they are quaint and they might be good for tourism because of all that local color stuff, but they are just going to have to adjust and get a job with a corporation. After all, coastal fishing communities are just filled with job opportunities.

Catch shares policy is about ownership not conservation! We already have Total Allowable Catch (TAC). TAC already controls how many fish are caught annually. In spite of what you may have read, TAC controls are already in place. For example, North Carolina’s bluefin tuna landings in the recreational sector were completely shut down in the late ’90s during the height of our season for two years in a row because of TAC concerns. Violators were fined $25,000, and, needless to say, they were few and far between.


I’ll repeat. Catch shares is not a stock management issue. It is an ownership issue.

How soon will catch shares be coming to a marina near you? The answer is that they will be coming very soon unless our elected leaders act immediately. The head of NOAA, Dr. Janet Lubchenco, worked for and closely with the Environmental Defense Fund prior to her appointment to head NOAA by President Obama.

In recent weeks, EDF had a conference in Wyoming (yes, Wyoming) to develop final implementation plans for the recreational sector catch shares. Why an ENGO – environmental non-government organization -- is about the business of developing government policy is, to say the least, interesting.

On Nov. 4, Eric Schwabb, assistant administrator for fisheries, released the formal NOAA announcement that catch shares are coming to the recreational sector.

If we want to see coastal heritage and traditions vanish, we should simply do nothing. If we believe that the right to fish should be the exclusive right of those who have the deepest pockets, we should simply do nothing. If we believe that reducing the ability of coastal citizens to generate income and pay more taxes is good for our state’s economy, we should simply do nothing.

On a personal note, I suspect -- perhaps hope is the better word – that, as the owner of a long standing and reasonably successful charter fishing operation, I will get enough catch shares to continue in business.

However, when I went to Vancouver to learn about catch shares, I heard incessantly about their great monetary value and that raised a question. So, I asked the man who developed the Canadian plan, “How could a young person ever become an owner/operator fisherman with this additional expense?” And he answered after a long pause, “We’re still working on that!”

There is something sadly, tragically wrong when a nation’s government deliberately creates a mechanism that denies the next generation its right to dream. I want no part of catch shares.


(Ernie Foster is a Hatteras Island native who, after a career in education, returned to Hatteras village and is now captain of the Albatross Fleet. He supports groups that fight to save the heritage of fishing, such as North Carolina Watermen United, and is also a board member of the North Carolina Coastal Federation.)


Shout NO to Catch Shares

Please contact our representatives in Washington, D.C., and tell them you support their fight against catch shares. Phone calls are the most effective means.
_________________
Capt. Dave
Continental Shelf
Morehead City, NC
910-458-3145

    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    mike ohlstein
    Site Admin
    Posts: 2394
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:39
    Location: So many things seem like no-brainers until you run into someone with no brain.
    Contact:

    Post by mike ohlstein »

    Pretty simple, really. NMFS isn't an arm of the Department of the Interior, it's an arm of the Depertment of Commerce. They aren't interested in the environment, the fish, or the public.

    I've been ranting about them for years.....ever since they started that crap about not allowing you to fish recreationally from a boat that has a commercial HMS permit.

    They're a bunch of fu###ng assholes who can be bought for the right price.
    Mike
    Mean Team Leader
    PREDATOR

    Burn Oil
    Eat Food
    1973 FBC 1286 0273-315
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    DQ,

    This has been a recent topic of conversation in the MRMTC as well. Our club had Jim Donofrio in so we could get a political update and donate some more money. In short the entire industry as we know it is doomed if catch shares become a reality.

    Lubchenco has got to go. She used to work for the EDF- Environmental Defense Fund. When she was appointed she took 54 million dollars that was slated for science and moved it to promoting catch shares.

    This all reeks of PEW they have there hands in everything now. The scary news is that IGFA, The Billfish Foundation and other so called fishermans groups are taking money from PEW now. IGFA took 25,000.00 from the PEW foundation last year. The IGFA and TBF signed a letter agreeing with catch shares. There are only a few groups that are not "on the take" the RFA is one of them.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    I hear Ya JP, and the two pieces of S*** that are at the bottom of it.
    • The head of NOAA, Dr. Janet Lubchenco, worked for and closely with the Environmental Defense Fund prior to her appointment to head NOAA by President Obama and PEW.
    Last edited by Capt. DQ on Nov 12th, '10, 16:58, edited 1 time in total.
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    JP:

    I'm on the board of directors of The Billfish Foundation and served as chairman the last couple of years. I can't comment on the IGFA, but your comments about TBF are totally wrong. TBF has never taken a penny from Pew, has never signed a letter of agreement with them on catch shares, and as a matter of fact, has never taken a position on catch shares.

    JB
    User avatar
    Bruce
    Site Admin
    Posts: 3789
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 12:04
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

    Post by Bruce »

    John,
    There is a letter of quasi support from TBF under Ellen Peel listed as President with Pew as a signer also.

    The letter is dated April of this year.

    Here's the PDF of that letter.

    http://www.joincca.org/media%20room/Fed ... Policy.pdf

    Mike,
    The dept of commerce has gotten way to much power and will be the way most things are regulated in the future. End run around the constitution in many aspects.
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Read it closely, and you'll see that this is not a letter of support, it is a letter expressing concern over crucial allocation issues that were excluded from the original draft document. The organizations listed at the bottom of the letter were ultimately successful in getting those concerns addressed in the final document, which was just released. They also derailed the original proposal to include recreational fishermen in possible catch shares participation.
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    John,

    Your group is getting some extreme criticism for its participation in signing anything that PEW has to do with. Perhaps it wasn't a direct donation from PEW but from one of their other "charitable" organizations. Its really the money trail that tells the truth.

    I'm scared to death of the future of fishing, its time to find out whose for conservation and whose for preservation. The commercial sector and the recreational sector need to work together to preserve our future on the ocean.

    Catch shares are not the answer, can we begin and agree on that.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    Bruce
    Site Admin
    Posts: 3789
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 12:04
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

    Post by Bruce »

    The last two paragraphs show support from the undersigned on working with the catch share program as I read it.

    Thats what I think bothers many because it is in fact a position of quasi support and not total opposition to it..
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    JP:

    There is NO money trail, no matter what you've been told.

    JB
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    John wrote,

    Read it closely, and you'll see that this is not a letter of support, it is a letter expressing concern over crucial allocation issues that were excluded from the original draft document. The organizations listed at the bottom of the letter were ultimately successful in getting those concerns addressed in the final document, which was just released.

    John, I think all who signed on had good intension of wanting to be on board to help and be in on the discussion's about it, But I think everybody got rear ended on this deal I think, I could be wrong, but it does look that way. Read below,



    • In recent weeks, EDF had a conference in Wyoming (yes, Wyoming) to develop final implementation plans for the recreational sector catch shares. Why an ENGO – environmental non-government organization -- is about the business of developing government policy is, to say the least, interesting.
    DQ
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Hey, I know everyone is nervous about these things, me included. But the letter Bruce posted is a response to a request from them (NOAA) for input. The alternative would have been to not respond and sit on the sidelines while these decisions were made without recreational input. The fact is, catch shares have been around for a long time in purely commercial fisheries. Want to be a commercial lobster fisherman in the Florida Keys? You have to buy into the fishery by purchasing someone else's shares to do it. There are lots of these fisheries around the U.S.

    What this document does is expand the catch shares concept by including mixed-use fisheries, fish landed by both recreational and commercial fishermen, things like king mackerel and red snapper. That's not been done before, and the implications can be disturbing. But it could also be good, IF (big if) it were done right. The implementation is everything, and no one knows how, exactly, it might work. The charter boat question is huge, but I know that when I served on the South Atlantic Fishery Management Council back in the '90s. we established an Individual Transferable Quota system (catch shares) for the wreckfish fishery, and the people in that fishery liked it. It's free market capitalism at its most basic.
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    Where does TBF stand on catch shares?

    Your last comment regarding the Florida Lobster fishery seemed to indicate a positive lean.

    Limited access fishery, you mean like the commercial bluefin purse seine boats years ago. Which family owned ALL of them???

    The downside of Catch Shares is that after "X" number of years the person or company with the most money can in effect own the entire fishery share to distribute as they see fit. In part this is due to the way the proposal is written today, states will be allowed to sell or trade catch shares as they see fit. Under this system and in a "free market capitalist" environment it could potentially allow the most valued fisheries to be owned by the highest payer, therefore cutting out either rec groups or commercial groups all together.

    Could you imagine environmental groups purchasing catch shares and shutting down entire fisheries???? Far fetched conspiracy theory or not I don't like it. Check out the NOAA site they are moving forward with catch shares.

    Fish with your kids while its still free cause the entire industry is going to hell if we stay on this path.

    God Bless the RFA, Big Game Journal and Viking Yacht Co. for seeing this avalanche coming and trying to at least warn some of us.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    Bill Mckinnon
    Senior Member
    Posts: 117
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 13:17
    Location: Charleston SC

    Catch Shares

    Post by Bill Mckinnon »

    There should be no catch share limits at all. The biggest problem is everyone takes 5 paragraphs to say what should be said in 10 words. Everyone uses a ton of long drawn out statements beacase in todays world we are afraid we might offend someone. John somebody in the TBF just needs to stand up and say NO. Kind of apperent from the latest election that people are getting pretty tired of all the BS that the government keeps issuing.

    Capt. Bill McKinnon
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    NOAA Catch Shares has 326 views.

    The Colonoscopy thread has 445 views.

    People are Lemmings. Guess we'll just turn all of our boats into wine a cheese craft. Can't believe there is this little concern about the outright sell out for "USE" of the oceans for recreational and commercial purposes.


    LEMMINGS!!!!!!!!
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    Bruce
    Site Admin
    Posts: 3789
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 12:04
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

    Post by Bruce »

    JP
    Thats because most people have their head up their ass.
    Tony Meola
    Senior Member
    Posts: 7036
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
    Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
    Contact:

    Post by Tony Meola »

    Bruce

    Hence the colonoscopy.

    These guys are going to control us at some point. We can scream and yell yet somehow they manage to get around us.

    Once catch shares are in place we are dead.
    1975 FBC BERG1467-315
    User avatar
    mike ohlstein
    Site Admin
    Posts: 2394
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:39
    Location: So many things seem like no-brainers until you run into someone with no brain.
    Contact:

    Post by mike ohlstein »

    In your ass, no one can hear you scream.....
    Mike
    Mean Team Leader
    PREDATOR

    Burn Oil
    Eat Food
    1973 FBC 1286 0273-315
    User avatar
    Bruce
    Site Admin
    Posts: 3789
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 12:04
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

    Post by Bruce »

    Mike,
    Thats not true.
    I've had boaters so far up my ass that their feet were dangling yet I still heard them loud and clear.

    Now listening to them was a different story.
    User avatar
    mike ohlstein
    Site Admin
    Posts: 2394
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:39
    Location: So many things seem like no-brainers until you run into someone with no brain.
    Contact:

    Post by mike ohlstein »

    I stand corrected......
    Mike
    Mean Team Leader
    PREDATOR

    Burn Oil
    Eat Food
    1973 FBC 1286 0273-315
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    We're lemmings because we don't drink the RFA Kool-Aid? Give me a break. As I said before, catch shares have been in use for decades, and I never heard the RFA whining about them before now. You guys are way paranoid about this issue and seem to lack faith in the free market system. The enviro groups could not buy up the shares and stop us from fishing because the plan is to build in a "use it or lose it" clause. You can't sit on shares and not fish.

    TBF has not taken a position on this because it doesn't pertain to billfish, and that's all we do.
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    TBF has not taken a position on this because it doesn't pertain to billfish, and that's all we do.
    In the eyes of fisherman everywhere by signing that letter TBF has taken a position.

    But don't worry I'm sure it will never effect billfish, go back to the fence.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    mike ohlstein
    Site Admin
    Posts: 2394
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:39
    Location: So many things seem like no-brainers until you run into someone with no brain.
    Contact:

    Post by mike ohlstein »

    John,

    I'm quite certain that I don’t exactly understand all of the issues here, but I do know this. When there are barriers to entry, and 'use it or lose it' shares of anything.........we're no longer talking free market. In fact, sitting on shares of a natural resource is a tried and true method of conservation. On land we call it CRP and it's used to limit the activity of commercial users to the benefit of recreational users. Of course ethanol produced from corn is destroying the CRP program, and pretty soon there won't be an acre of game habitat left......but hey.....who needs all of those birds and deer anyway.

    Thirty years ago you could catch a 300 pound swordfish just a few miles off of the Long Island beach in the middle of the day. Now it's a big deal if you get one that weighs 80 pounds, in the middle of the night, 75 miles off shore. Thirty years ago my father used to throw 35 pound cod back because they were rats. Now it's a big deal if you get one that tips the scales at 18 pounds. I haven't seen a flounder in years, which means that pretty soon the seals will be decimating the fluke or the blackfish. The tuna fishing is worse every year. These are examples of NOAA/NMFS 'management'. Then to add insult to injury, they (the gum'ment) consistently act in a manner which suggests that they believe that the recreational fisherman is somehow to blame for the decline in the biomass. In fact, NOAA/NMFS is so powerful, that they are able to enact laws which transcend our own borders. Did you know that you would be in violation of US Federal Law if you were to go half way around the world and take a HMS fish that you would be prohibited from taking in US territorial waters.....even if the fish is legal in the waters in which you take it? You can commit murder in a foreign country without breaking a law in the US, but heaven forbid you catch a 25 inch tuna in Australia........ If they could figure out how to blame us for the damage done by bottom draggers, I'm sure they would. I don't trust them to do the right thing with our natural resources. Not one bit.

    Now to be fair, the recovery of the striped bass is a true conservation success story. I can only imagine that someone at NOAA/NMFS is a bass fisherman.

    I'm not suggesting that we have the Sierra Club take charge of the fishery. But at the same time, I think that anything which consolidates power in the hands of those whose interest is big business at the expense of the individual is bad. Whatever they want, I'm against it. But you're right, we should not and can not sit on the sidelines and not participate in the process. We need to fight them.
    Mike
    Mean Team Leader
    PREDATOR

    Burn Oil
    Eat Food
    1973 FBC 1286 0273-315
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    Can I suggest that We, the fishermen, just call your Congressman and voice your concerns to him, because this wheel is already in motion. We should not argue amongest ourselves, but be united together as one, not divided.

    We could continue to discuss this till the cows come home, but if you do not call your congressman, its not going matter how much we discuss it. Action speaks louder than words. The Power of ONE!

    DQ
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    Brewster Minton
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1795
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 07:44
    Location: Hampton Bays NY
    Contact:

    Post by Brewster Minton »

    Having been a commercial fisherman, rec fisherman, a fish monger the problem I see is fishermen do not stand together. Baymen hate rec people, draggers hate tuna guys, bill fishermen hate all others, black fishermen hate seabass guys. The list goes on forever. Till that chnges we will get the shaft.
    User avatar
    Carl
    Senior Member
    Posts: 6082
    Joined: Jul 5th, '06, 06:45
    Location: Staten Island NY

    Post by Carl »

    Brewster Minton wrote:Having been a commercial fisherman, rec fisherman, a fish monger the problem I see is fishermen do not stand together. Baymen hate rec people, draggers hate tuna guys, bill fishermen hate all others, black fishermen hate seabass guys. The list goes on forever. Till that chnges we will get the shaft.
    Even if we all got together our voice would be limited...but it would be a start.
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Brewster, you make a great point. We have more in common than we ever admit, recs and commercials. On the overall discussion, you must admit that there is no such thing as unlimited entry and hasn't been for some time. In virtually every commercial fishery (remember that the recent catch shares document excludes recreational fishermen) you have to jump through a ton of hoops by proving income from that fishery to get licensed to participate in it. There has been a concerted effort to create limited entry in most fisheries for many years, mostly because there were simply too many participants.

    If you can think of them objectively for a minute, catch shares are designed with good intentions: to further stabilize those same commercial fisheries. Is that a bad thing? Now, you all make a persuasive argument that the government is probably the worst entity to organize this, but think of it this way: once a catch shares program is established, and assuming it's established correctly (once again, big if), the government pretty much gets out of it except to set quotas. The free market determines who has what shares. If you're a small time commercial guy, you don't have to sell, and in fact, can expand if you can pull it of financially.
    User avatar
    Brewster Minton
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1795
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 07:44
    Location: Hampton Bays NY
    Contact:

    Post by Brewster Minton »

    I'm the wrong guy to see it clearly. The brother inlaw of the NMFS has the permits for 3 purse boats. The only purse boats. When it opens they catch more in one day then all boats com, or rec in the whole year. Yet they send guys to check me? To make sure I do not catch too much blue fin. In one day they catch more than all other boats on the whole east coast in a year. Think about that for one min.
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    Brew I understand your earlier post, definitly a Cluster F*** to think you could get all those fishermen to agree on anything. But the Rec. Fishermen are the one's I'm asking to call there congressmen, not the others.

    Who does the most for conservation and gets penalized the most? Rec. fishermen. Granted that there are some from each group who abuse certain aspects of the fishery all the time. The TBF gets a lot of monetary donations from Gulf Coast Fishing Clubs which cannot be disputed at all. If this goes the wrong way, it's not going to look good on any that signed on to it.

    DQ
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    Tony Meola
    Senior Member
    Posts: 7036
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 21:24
    Location: Hillsdale, New Jersey
    Contact:

    Post by Tony Meola »

    At least there is one guy on our side.

    JONES SLAMS NOAA CATCH SHARE POLICY

    WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today U.S. Congressman Walter B. Jones (NC-3) sent a letter to Dr. Jane Lubchenco, Administrator of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), opposing NOAA’s recently announced National Catch Share Policy and demanding answers regarding its development. Jones called the policy “totally unnecessary for species protection.” He expressed outrage over NOAA’s announcement of a $2.2 million grant program to advance its catch shares agenda, which will put Americans out of work and is opposed by the vast majority of fishermen. Jones believes that “to the extent that solid science demonstrates that reductions in catch in any given fishery are necessary, there are far better options than catch shares for achieving those reductions.” Jones has long opposed catch shares and is working in Congress to block funding for implementation of new catch share programs.

    A copy of the letter sent to Administrator Lubchenco follows:

    “Dear Administrator Lubchenco:

    On behalf of the North Carolina fishing communities I am privileged to represent, I would like to express my strong opposition to the National Catch Share Policy and the $2.2 million catch share grant program which the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) announced last week. It is astonishing that at a time of near record unemployment and exploding federal deficits, NOAA stubbornly continues its agenda to spend millions of taxpayer dollars to advance a catch share policy that is totally unnecessary for species protection and that all acknowledge will put more Americans out of work.

    As you know, the Magnuson-Stevens Act sets the framework for fisheries management in this country. Under the act, fisheries management councils are given the option to use a variety of measures to manage fish stocks, only one of which is catch shares. The act does not establish a preference for catch shares. The act does not authorize the agency to promulgate a policy to encourage fishermen and councils to select catch shares over other management options. The act does not authorize the agency to spend taxpayer money to support the efforts of special interest groups seeking to petition the councils and the agency to establish more catch share programs. But yet with last week’s announcement, this is exactly what NOAA is doing.

    Furthermore, it appears that NOAA – through the Secretary of Commerce – is selecting fishery management council members based on their allegiance to catch shares. Collectively, these actions leave the impression that NOAA is attempting to hijack the council process in order to impose its catch shares agenda.

    Therefore, I would appreciate answers to the following questions:

    1. What specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to promulgate its National Catch Share policy?

    2. Your staff has informed me that $1 million of the $2.2 million catch share grant program is being provided by NOAA. Exactly which account is that money coming from? The Asset Forfeiture Fund? Which specific law does NOAA believe gives it the statutory authority to spend money for this purpose? Is it the official policy of the agency to spend millions to put people out of work?

    3. Is it NOAA’s policy to ignore the will of fishing communities – the vast majority of whom oppose catch shares – and to rig the council process to favor implementation of new catch shares programs?

    In closing, to the extent that solid science demonstrates that reductions in catch in any given fishery are necessary, there are far better options than catch shares for achieving those reductions. The last thing the federal government should be doing in these economic times is spending millions of taxpayer dollars to expand a policy that will put even more Americans out of work.

    I hope you will take these words to heart, and I look forward to your response.”

    For additional information, please contact Catherine Fodor in Congressman Jones’ office at (202) 225-3415
    1975 FBC BERG1467-315
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    • Leading fishery scientist sees 'crisis' in catch shares

      By Richard Gaines
      Staff Writer The Gloucester Daily Times Wed Nov 10, 2010, 09:39 PM EST


      Academic scientist Brian Rothschild has issued a harsh critique of fishery management policies, asserting that the rush to create a catch share commodities market in New England's groundfishery has meant a transfer of "public resources to private individuals" yielding an unnecessary government-made "economic crisis."

      Rothschild went further, arguing that the catch share program, which took effect last May 1, was implemented illegally, prematurely and somewhat cavalierly "without the level of analysis, planning, budgeting and community dialog that would be expected of a major federal action."

      "It is difficult to consider the catch share system as having any function other than economic allocation as it's sole purpose," he wrote. Yet, the Magnuson-Stevens Act, he noted, states that no "conservation and management measure ... shall have economic allocation as its sole purpose."

      Rothschild, professor emeritus at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth's School of Marine Technology and Science, released his critique during a Tuesday night forum in New Bedford that was sponsored by the Standard-Times and drew what the newspaper counted as a standing room only crowd of "hundreds" — including Eric Schwaab, the national administrator of fisheries, and a representative of the Environmental Defense Fund.

      Together, Schwaab and Julie Wormser, EDF's New England ocean policies director, deflected questions and complaints for much of the evening.

      EDF has gained significant influence in fisheries management policies since its former vice chairwoman, Jane Lubchenco, was picked to head the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration by President Obama.

      In the aftermath of Lubchenco's ascent, she turned away from the opportunity to name Rothschild to the position she eventually offered to Schwaab, a Maryland bureaucrat who is not a scientist. Rothschild's candidacy had come with bipartisan support in Congress, including Barney Frank, the Democrat whose district includes New Bedford, and Walter Jones, a North Carolina Republican.

      The forum and Rothschild's analysis occurred during a continuation of the political and legal struggle between congressional and local political forces allied with the mainstream commercial fishing industry in passionate opposition to Lubchenco's and EDF's catch share policies.

      Bob Zales, executive director of the Conservation Cooperative of Gulf Fishermen, said fishermen along the Florida Keys were protesting EDF's lobbyist's "deceptive actions trying to control the commercial and recreational fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico."

      "Maybe a judge can stop their collective effort to end fishing," Zales said in an e-mail.

      Rothschild's paper was considered authoritative by Larry Ciulla, president of the Gloucester Seafood Display Auction, who told the Times it spoke eloquently of truths the fishing industry had come to see close up.

      Rothschild said Gov. Deval Patrick recently spelled out the economic crisis in a letter to Commerce Secretary Gary Locke, which noted that 10 percent of the boats in catch share sectors in New England had gained 65 percent of the fishing revenue, while 90 percent of the boats shared 35 percent of the revenue.

      "Projecting this trajectory to the end of the fishing year," Rothschild wrote, "places the crisis in bold relief as we translate these dry statistics into lost livelihoods and collapses of small businesses."

      He closed with a challenge to Locke.

      "The governor has written to the Secretary of Commerce with specifics on how the secretary can apply his emergency powers," Rothschild wrote. "The mayors of New Bedford and Gloucester have urged the inspector general to extend his investigation of law enforcement to also take into account rule making. Litigation is on the table.

      "The message is loud and clear," he wrote. "The ball is the secretary's court."

      Richard Gaines can be reached at 978-283-7000, x3464, or at rgaines@gloucestertimes.com.
      _________________
      Capt. Dave
      Continental Shelf
      Morehead City, NC
      910-458-3145
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    I'm the wrong guy to see it clearly. The brother inlaw of the NMFS has the permits for 3 purse boats. The only purse boats. When it opens they catch more in one day then all boats com, or rec in the whole year.
    And there you have it, the most valuable fishery already bought and owned thanks to limited entry, and free market catch shares. Imagine how many recs, comms, tackle shops and marinas a fleet of boats could support just fishing for the quota of those 3 purse boats.

    Maybe even a recreational trophy fish could be in effect again instead of limiting us to a single 58" and under.

    Better science
    Accurate quotas
    Oh and how about enforcement of ICCAT regulations world wide so the US fisherman doesn't have to keep giving quotas away so the rest of the world can keep more swordfish and tuna's (3- yellowfin per man, yup that reduced the US quoto on paper so it could be traded or sold to another country)

    Sorry for the rants just tired of watching our freedoms as sportsmen get taken away piece by piece.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    • WEEKLY UPDATE: 11/19/10
      NORTH CAROLINA FISHERIES ASSOCIATION
      "Serving the Commercial Fishing Families of North Carolina since 1952"
      Phone: (252) 633-2288 www.ncfish.org

      Former President Bill Clinton’s chief of staff John Podesta, now the head of the Center for American Progress (A group very close to the current administration), called on President Obama to push forward with his agenda using federal agencies and executive branch power. “One of the best ways for the Obama administration to achieve results of that nature, in the short term, is through substantial executive authority to make and implement policy,” Podesta said. “As noted in the Constitution and the laws of the United States give the president the ability and the responsibility to act as the chief executive using authorities granted to all presidents such as executive orders, rule-makings, agency management and public-private partnerships.” This could mean massive executive orders affecting the fishing industry; things like catch shares are already on the fast track despite overwhelming opposition to them in the industry, or maybe executive orders putting large sections of the ocean off-limits; remember Bush, by executive order, made redfish gamefish in the EEZ.

      Catch Share Crowd is lobbying heavily in DC; Environmental Defense is paying for so-called fishermen to work Congress and join with NMFS to promote the catch share management scheme. You can be sure that the Agency will highlight the fact that "fishermen" are for catch shares, but ignore the overwhelming majority of the industry that is adamantly opposed to catch shares/ITQs/LAPPs, et al. Remember NMFS head, Eric Schwaab''s comments last week "I am pleased to announce the release of a new NOAA Policy that encourages the consideration and use of catch shares as a fishery management tool. Catch shares are an important option for building sustainable fisheries that contribute to resilient ocean ecosystems and vibrant working waterfronts. The purpose of this policy is to provide a strong foundation for the widespread consideration of catch shares which are proving to be an effective tool for ending overfishing, rebuilding fisheries and ensuring sustainable seafood." NMFS will try to convince various Councils to implement the management tool by attaching compliance with its new "policy" to money. That is, unless folks like Congressman Walter Jones are successful in stopping funding for this scam.

      Speaking of Catch Shares: Dr. Brian Rothschild, Dean Emeritus of the University of Massachusetts School for Marine Science and Technology, spoke at the Standard Times Fishing Forum in New Bedford, Massachusetts on November 9, 2010, stating that, "The catch-share system has been in operation for six months. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be an improvement over the unsatisfactory days-at-sea system. Success has been measured by proponents in terms of revenues which are slightly greater than last year. However, this is an incomplete index. Revenues do not take into account substantial added costs of the catch-share system that include, among other things, the uncertainty of lease costs, sector management and administration, and the cost of additional equipment. Ignored, as well, are social costs induced by laying off crew when quota is exchanged." He also added, "…it does appear that the catch-share system has generated an economic crisis. The economic crisis was spelled out in a recent letter from Governor Patrick to the secretary of commerce. The governor''s letter pointed out that, of the 385 boats that have joined sectors, nearly 60% have not fished this year. Two-thirds of the fishing permits were allocated only 50-60% of their 2007-2009 harvest. Ten percent of Massachusetts sector boats landed 65% of the total revenue, while 90% of the boats landed 35% of the total revenue." Great system! Dr. Rothschild concluded, "It is striking that this major federal action was put into place prematurely without the level of analysis, planning, budgeting, and community dialogue that would be expected with a major federal action. It turns out that reasonable alternatives were not considered. A greater surprise is that the economic and social performance of the catch-share experiment is not being tracked by NOAA. It appears that NOAA has committed itself to the belief, put forth by conservation organizations, that catch shares are the magical cure to all ills, real or imagined."

      ****Make Every Effort to Attend NC Marine Fisheries Commission Calls Emergency Meeting (Everyone Needs to go!) Spotted Seatrout issue will be discussed again and the recreational crowd is expected to show up in droves. ***
      November 22, 2010 at 1 p.m.
      Fisheries Commission Meeting
      Crystal Coast Civic Center, 3505 Arendell St., Morehead City, N.C.
      Contact: the Marine Fisheries Commission office at (252) 808-8021


      PROCLAMATIONS:
      RE: FLOUNDER-COMMERCIAL HARVEST INTERNAL COASTAL WATERS
      Effective at 12:01 A.M., Wednesday, December 1, 2010 until midnight, Friday, December 31, 2010, the following restrictions shall apply to the commercial harvest of flounder in internal coastal waters: I. AREA DESCRIPTION Internal coastal waters of the state of North Carolina as defined in Marine Fisheries Rule 15A NCAC 03I .0101 (1) (c). II. CLOSED SEASON A. In the area described above, it is unlawful for any commercial fishing operation to possess, land, sell or offer for sale flounder from 12:01 A.M. Wednesday, December 1, 2010 through midnight, Friday, December 31, 2010.
      B. Commercial flounder harvest for all commercial gears will open by this proclamation at 12:01 A.M. Saturday, January 1, 2011. http://www.ncfisheries.net/procs/procs2 ... -2010.html

      RE: STRIPED BASS SEASON – COMMERCIAL FISHING OPERATIONS – ALBEMARLE SOUND MANAGEMENT AREA
      Effective at 12:00 Noon, Friday, November 19, 2010, the harvest of striped bass with COMMERCIAL FISHING OPERATIONS IN THE ALBEMARLE SOUND MANAGEMENT AREA SHALL REMAIN OPEN and the following provisions shall apply:
      I. AREA DESCRIPTION Albemarle Sound Management Area as described in Marine Fisheries Rule 15A NCAC 3R .0201 (a). II. SIZE AND HARVEST RESTRICTIONS
      A. It is unlawful to take, possess, transport, buy, sell, or offer for sale striped bass less than 18 inches total length taken by commercial fishing operations from the Albemarle Sound Management Area. B. It is unlawful for an individual or commercial fishing operation regardless of the number of persons or vessels involved, to possess, land, sell or offer for sale more than ten (10) striped bass, unless taken in conjunction with other commercially important finfish. Striped bass shall be limited to 50% by weight, of the combined daily harvest, not to exceed 10 fish per day, per Standard Commercial Fishing License (SCFL) holder. The daily harvest limit of 10 striped bass shall not be exceeded, regardless of where taken from internal waters, unless the fish are taken in accordance with II. C. below. C. It is unlawful for any operation consisting of more than one SCFL holder to be in possession of more than two daily harvest limits. The SCFL holders must accompany and transport each single harvest limit and the other commercially important finfish together until the striped bass are sold to a dealer possessing a valid 2010/2011 STRIPED BASS DEALER PERMIT validated for the Albemarle Sound Management Area. http://www.ncfisheries.net/procs/procs2 ... -2010.html

      RE: BLACK SEA BASS – COMMERCIAL FISHING OPERATIONS – ATLANTIC OCEAN
      Effective at 8:00 A.M., Thursday, November 18, 2010, the following restrictions shall apply to the commercial black sea bass fishery north of Cape Hatteras (35° 15.3’N. Latitude):
      I. SIZE LIMIT It is unlawful to possess black sea bass taken with commercial fishing equipment or for commercial purposes which are less than 11 inches total length north of Cape Hatteras. Total length shall be measured along the lateral midline from the tip of the nose to the tip tail, excluding the caudal fin filament. II. HARVEST LIMITS A. During the period beginning at 8:00 A.M. Thursday, November 18, 2010, and ending at 6:00 P.M. Friday, December 31, 2010, no commercial fish pot or hook and line fishing operation, regardless of the number of people involved, may have total landings of more than 200 pounds per trip of black sea bass taken from the Atlantic Ocean north of Cape Hatteras. B. During the period in II.A. above, commercial trawl vessels may land up to 200 pounds of black sea bass taken from the Atlantic Ocean.

      NEWS

      November 22, 2010 at 1 p.m.
      Fisheries Commission Meeting
      Crystal Coast Civic Center, 3505 Arendell St., Morehead City, N.C.
      Contact: the Marine Fisheries Commission office at (252) 808-8021
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    Catch Shares finally getting some ears & eyes burning. Now we gonna see just how flawed some of the secret meeting were behind closed doors without the fisherman input. Some issues were not address properly.

    Things are going to get interesting, east coast fishermen really need to start paying attention as it is going to effect you first with the new catch shares. If you don't care about fishing then don't worry about it. But if do fish...you better wake up.
    DQ

    [img][img]http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r210 ... over_1.jpg[/img][/img]
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    Bruce
    Site Admin
    Posts: 3789
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 12:04
    Location: Palm Beach Gardens, Fl.

    Post by Bruce »

    Even if you don't fish get involved and help out the brother fisherman after all we're all boaters in one way or another.

    Just like strictly hunters should be helping out and support those who carry for self defense.

    We are all in this together, that is unless your one of those liberal pukes..............
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    Found this little tidbit on another site. Not my words but on the same line as DQ's original post:


    EDF Catch Shares Scheme
    Do you ever wonder how EDF & all these Enviro Industry anti-fishing groups are linked together? I'll make it real easy for everyone.

    Here is the list of villains we can thank for CATCH SHARES & SECTOR SEPARATION and a lot of other unneeded, unscientific anti-recreational fishing regs being thrown at us:

    SUNOCO Oil, which is owned by the.....

    PEW FAMILY of Radnor, PA which has donated billions in SUNOCO stock shares to......

    PEW ENVIRONMENT GROUP, headed by Joshua Reichert, a militant anti-fishing Vegan, this NGO * gives tens of millions in funds every year to radical Enviro Industry front groups like.......

    EDF ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND, which is the original anti-fishing Enviro Industry front group to begin pushing for Catch Shares for both commercial and recreational fisheries. EDF's former Vice-Chairman is.....

    JANE LUBECHENKO, who as payback by the OBAMA ADMINSTRATION to the Enviro Industry for their donating tens of millions of dollars to his 2008 election campaign, ( http://www.edf.org/pressrelease.cfm?contentID=8994 ) was appointed to head up the US Federal Gummint's.....

    NOAA NATIONAL OCEANOGRAPHIC & ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, which oversees.....

    NMFS NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE, which was formerly known as the.....

    COMMERCE DEPT'S BCF BUREAU OF COMMERCIAL FISHERIES, until an outcry from recreational fishermen about BCF's blatant discrimination against them forced a more-palatable name change to......

    NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE, which oversees the US coastal regional.......

    FISHERY MANAGEMENT COUNCILS, which include.......

    SAFMC SOUTH ATLANTIC FISHERIES MANAGEMENT COUNCIL, which forces unscientific, unneeded and unwanted regs on fishermen in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and east coast Florida and......

    GMFMC GULF OF MEXICO FISHERIES MANAGEMENT COUNCIL, which forces unscientific, unwanted & unneeded regs on fishermen in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabammy and west coast Florida and.....

    ASFMC ATLANTIC STATES FISHERIES MANAGEMENT COUNCIL, which forces unneeded unwanted unscientific regs on fishermen in Virginia, Maryland and......

    A BUNCH MORE FMC FISHERY MANAGEMENT COUNCILS, all of whom allow an NGO group like.......

    EDF ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND to generate "scientific independent studies" and then propose regs to NMFS which in turn implements EDF's CATCH SHARES SCHEME, because even though the US Federal Gummint employees working for NMFS and the various FMC Councils know that what EDF is doing is illegal and a federal felony, they also know that their ultimate boss is......

    NOAA DIRECTOR JANE LUBECHENKO, who really takes her marching orders not from the Fedl Gummint, but from her former employer, the radical anti-fishing Enviro Industry EDF front group. EDF knows that their CATCH SHARES SCHEME is unworkable and unpalatable, especially coming from an Enviro Industry group, so they are now using unwitting dupes and witting Useful Idiots in recreational fishing groups like......

    CCA COASTAL CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION, aka Can't Catch Anything. Every time CCA gets involved in fisheries issues that affect federal waters beyond three miles, they consistently come out on favor of the most restrictive regs that will do the most harm to recreational fishermen. Perhaps the reason behind their anti-recreational fishermen stance is because for years now they have been taking several million dollars a year from the Enviro Industry, ill-gotten dirty funds laundered through the......

    TEDDY ROOSEVELT CONSERVATION COALITION, which is really a sham front group run by the Enviro Industry so that they can use it to buy off recreational fishing groups like.....

    ASA AMERICAN SPORTFISHING ASSOCIATION (the tackle industry's trade group) and......

    TBF THE BILLFISH FOUNDATION and the aforementioned......

    CCA which is joined in their anti-recreational backing of Catch Shares by the corrupt and greedy........

    SOS SAVE OUR SECTORS gang, comprised of a small group of headboat operators and charter captains who are outnumbered 10-to-1 by other headboat operators and charter captains who don't want anything to do with Sector Separation or Catch Shares, because they know both schemes are bad for all recreational fishermen.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    To get an idea just how evil, fascist and genocidal the EDF Environmental Defense Fund really is, read this little gem:

    Writer Christopher C. Horner has referred to a spread of mosquito-borne malaria after a DDT ban that EDF sponsored. When asked if the ban might unleash a malaria epidemic, EDF founding trustee Dr. Charles Wurster replied, "Probably - so what? People are the cause of all the problems. We have too many of them. This is as good a way to get rid of them as any."

    John Berlau, author of the book Eco-Freaks, argues that EDF and later the Clinton Administration, due to an "earth-worshiping mentality," interfered with operations of the US Army Corps of Engineers via judicial activism with the aid of Judge Charles Schwartz, forestalling levee reinforcement that led to Katrinagate shortly after Hurricane Katrina. Berlau sees EDF's "contempt for human life and safety, all for the sake of a few fish and mosquitoes."

    Fisherman's News Magazine argues that EDF's Catch Shares Scheme fisheries policy in the Pacific Northwest is likely to damage smaller, local operators who have an interest in protecting fisheries and limiting by-catch. Many fisherman fear that independent operators, including boats, fisheries, and ports will be forced out of business as the new EDF-supported Catch Shares licensing structure gives a competitive advantage to larger, non-local operations."
    ---------------------------------------------------

    *NGO is "Non-Governmental Organization"
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Evil, fascist AND genocidal? That's quite a paranoia trifecta. JP, you really should cut down on the caffeine.
    ed c.
    Senior Member
    Posts: 303
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 18:51
    Location: wildwood crest, nj

    Post by ed c. »

    Dalik & Brownlee, I was at the Fishermens March on Washington last February . The march organizers refused to let Eric Schwaab speak, they paid for the march and told him to take a hike.
    Brownlee, how do I get one of those $80K board member jobs with all expenses paid to the tournaments, personally I would not brag about being a board member, not after them signing a document agreeing with the Pew mafia.
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Ed:

    Now we're taking money from Pew AND getting paid?! Somebody's been holding out on me, I haven't seen a dime yet!

    But seriously, if you do happen to come across a volunteer board position that pays $80 grand, let me know, will you? I could use the cash.

    Hey Patrick, how much dough did you walk away with for all those years you worked your ass off as a volunteer for the evil CCA?
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    [The march organizers refused to let Eric Schwaab speak, they paid for the march and told him to take a hike.]

    Probably for the best, he might have confused them with facts.
    ed c.
    Senior Member
    Posts: 303
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 18:51
    Location: wildwood crest, nj

    Post by ed c. »

    Brownlee, one of the biggest groups there was from Florida. As for facts, I would never believe anyone in the Obama Administration. They probably did not even read the law themselves.
    Nothing personal, just business.
    User avatar
    CaptPatrick
    Founder/Admin
    Posts: 4161
    Joined: Jun 7th, '06, 14:25
    Location: 834 Scott Dr., LLANO, TX 78643 - 325.248.0809 bertram31@bertram31.com

    Post by CaptPatrick »

    Hey Patrick, how much dough did you walk away with for all those years you worked your ass off as a volunteer for the evil CCA?
    Probably about a grand or two in the hole and the straw that broke the camel's back causing me to leave a $70k job with Jewel Masters.

    But the job loss I count as pure profit since otherwise I might not be where I am today...
    Last edited by CaptPatrick on Jan 19th, '11, 09:15, edited 1 time in total.
    User avatar
    AndreF
    Senior Member
    Posts: 711
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 09:53
    Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Contact:

    Post by AndreF »

    Thanks, John, for hanging in there with your views too, (I hope).
    Tough nut........
    I'm not sure but indecision may or may not be my problem.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

    1981 FBC BERG1883M81E
    User avatar
    In Memory Walter K
    Senior Member
    Posts: 2912
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:25
    Location: East Hampton LI, NY
    Contact:

    Post by In Memory Walter K »

    The problem is as simple as a recognition of the major credibility gap that exists with all fishermen, both recreational and commercial, that ANY governmental or private regulatory group has done anything to bring back any species, and their total inability to do anything on an international level to control the slaughter/extinction of the Bluefin Tuna is pathetic.
    The two "comeback" species, Striped Bass and Swordfish only happened because of pcb's (thank you General Electric) that made Stripers unmarketable for several years and the combination of Mercury in Swordfish (quickly forgotten) and the banning of long lining in their breeding areas. I may be sadly misinformed, but if we could give them credit for improving our fishing experiences, I think we'd all listen more openly to what they had to say. Our experiences in the Northeast only show us that we must now go far further, fish much harder, than we have had to in the past, and even then, get skunked. All that in 40 years when we never had to go further than 20 miles from the Point and NEVER got skunked.
    User avatar
    John Brownlee
    Senior Member
    Posts: 163
    Joined: Aug 29th, '06, 17:50
    Location: Islamorada, FL
    Contact:

    Post by John Brownlee »

    Is overfishing ended? Top US scientist says yes

    (AP) – Jan 8, 2011

    BOSTON (AP)

    For the first time in at least a century, U.S. fishermen won't take too much of any species from the sea, one of the nation's top fishery scientists says.

    The projected end of overfishing comes during a turbulent fishing year that's seen New England fishermen switch to a radically new management system. But scientist Steve Murawski said that for the first time in written fishing history, which goes back to 1900, "As far as we know, we've hit the right levels, which is a milestone."

    "And this isn't just a decadal milestone, this is a century phenomenon," said Murawski, who retired last week as chief scientist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Fisheries Service.
    Murawski said it's more than a dramatic benchmark — it also signals the coming of increasingly healthy stocks and better days for fishermen who've suffered financially. In New England, the fleet has deteriorated since the mid-1990s from 1,200 boats to only about 580, but Murawski believes fishermen may have already endured their worst times.
    "I honestly think that's true, and that's why I think it's a newsworthy event," said Murawski, now a professor at the University of South Florida.

    But fishermen and their advocates say ending overfishing came at an unnecessarily high cost. Dave Marciano fished out of Gloucester, an hour's drive northeast of Boston, for three decades until he was forced to sell his fishing permit in June. He said the new system made it too costly to catch enough fish to stay in business.
    "It ruined me," said Marciano, 45. "We could have ended overfishing and had a lot more consideration for the human side of the fishery."

    An end to overfishing doesn't mean all stocks are healthy, but scientists believe it's a crucial step to getting there.

    When fishermen are overfishing a species, they're catching it at a rate scientists believe is too fast to ensure that the species can rebuild and then stay healthy. It's different from when a species is overfished, which is when scientists believe its population is too low.
    Murawski said it's a nearly ironclad rule of fishery management that species become far more abundant when they're being fished at the appropriate level, which is determined after considering factors such as a species' life span and death rates.
    A mandate to end overfishing by the 2010 fishing year — which concludes at different times in 2011, depending on the region — came in the 2007 reauthorization of the nation's fisheries law, the Magnuson-Stevens Act.
    Murawski said the U.S. is the only country that has a law that defines overfishing and requires its fishermen not to engage in it.

    "When you compare the United States with the European Union, with Asian countries, et cetera, we are the only industrialized fishing nation who actually has succeeded in ending overfishing," he said.
    Regulators say 37 stocks nationwide last year were being overfished (counting only those that live exclusively in U.S. waters); New England had the most with 10. But Murawski said management systems that emphasize strict catch limits have made a big difference, and New England just made the switch.
    Fishermen there now work in groups called sectors to divide an annual quota of groundfish, which include cod, haddock and flounder. If they exceed their limits on one species, they're forced to stop fishing on all species.
    About two-thirds into the current fishing year, which ends April 30, federal data indicated New England fishermen were on pace to catch fewer than their allotted fish in all but one stock, Georges Bank winter flounder. But Murawski said he didn't expect fishermen would exceed their quota on any stock.
    In other regions with overfishing — the South Atlantic, the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean — regulators project catch limits and other measures will end overfishing this fishing year. Already, South Atlantic black grouper and Gulf of Mexico red snapper are no longer being overfished.
    The final verification that overfishing has ended nationwide, at least for one fishing year, will come after detailed stock assessments.

    It will be a "Pyrrhic victory" in hard-hit New England, said Brian Rothschild, a fisheries scientist at the University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth. He said regulators could legally loosen the rules and allow fishermen to safely catch more fish, but regulators have refused to do it, and fishermen have needlessly been shut out from even healthy stocks.
    The science is far from perfect, Marciano said. Regulators believed fishermen were overfishing pollock until new data last year indicated scientists had badly underestimated its population, he said. And some stocks, such as Gulf of Maine cod, have recovered even when fishermen were technically overfishing them.
    "To say you can't rebuild stocks while overfishing is occurring is an outright lie. We did it," Marciano said.

    Tom Nies, a fisheries analyst for regional New England regulators, said stocks can sometimes be boosted by variables such as strong births in a given year, but they'll inevitably decline if overfishing continues on them.

    Peter Shelley, senior counsel of the Conservation Law Foundation, an environmental group, said the industry's problems are rooted in years of overfishing, especially during the 1980s, not regulation. "It was a bubble," he said. "Fishermen were living in a bit of a fantasy world at that point, and it wasn't something you could sustain."

    That's why Murawski's projection about the end of overfishing is "a very big deal," he said. "I think we're just starting to see signs of a new future," Shelley said.

    What fisherman Steve Arnold, 46, sees in his home port of Point Judith, R.I., are fewer boats, older fishermen and "a lot of frowns on people's faces. "Overfishing might end this year, but the fleet has suffered and has an uncertain future, he said. "I believe we can get to a better place, but the work isn't done," Arnold said. "We're living through something that we're learning as we go. It's not a comfortable feeling."
    User avatar
    mike ohlstein
    Site Admin
    Posts: 2394
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:39
    Location: So many things seem like no-brainers until you run into someone with no brain.
    Contact:

    Post by mike ohlstein »

    John Brownlee wrote:"To say you can't rebuild stocks while overfishing is occurring is an outright lie. We did it," Marciano said.
    Just had another 'Why didn't I think of that' moment.......
    Mike
    Mean Team Leader
    PREDATOR

    Burn Oil
    Eat Food
    1973 FBC 1286 0273-315
    ed c.
    Senior Member
    Posts: 303
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 18:51
    Location: wildwood crest, nj

    Post by ed c. »

    It seems we are doing too much reading and not enough fishing. Boy, there sure is a lot of crap that comes out of Washington.
    User avatar
    In Memory Walter K
    Senior Member
    Posts: 2912
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:25
    Location: East Hampton LI, NY
    Contact:

    Post by In Memory Walter K »

    Largest source of hot air on the continent. Major contributor to global warming.
    User avatar
    Capt. DQ
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1025
    Joined: Jun 29th, '06, 11:18
    Location: P'cola, FL

    Post by Capt. DQ »

    Check out this link to another site thats got even more info about PEW and who backing them and pushing the new scheme. Some good discussions going on also there.

    DQ

    http://fryingpantower.com/ftopic-21608- ... rasc-.html
    1967 Hull #315-605 FBC ---<*)((((><(
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
    'Life may be the party we hoped for...but while we are here we might as well fish'!
    User avatar
    JP Dalik
    Senior Member
    Posts: 1317
    Joined: Jun 30th, '06, 21:03
    Location: Pt. Pleasant NJ
    Contact:

    Post by JP Dalik »

    Guess you've got to figure out the answer to one simple question.

    Is fishing a right or a privilege?

    The answer to that will decide which side of the fence you fall on.

    Good read Doug. Thanks for keeping this alive, the apathy the general public shows to this topic is remarkable.

    Sheeple the largest growing demographic in our nation.
    KR


    JP
    1977 RLDT "CHIMERA"
    Post Reply

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 70 guests