2 rescued 31' Bertram/Coast Guard PSBs

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 1st, '10, 14:58

The Coast Guard had 2 of these burried up to the water-line in a parking lot. They are in amazingly good shape for being "Training Aids" for the last 25 years. We have one of them running after only 2 days work and are wondering how much money to "sink" into them to get then sea worthy. They are Single Detroit 6-53 powered. Todays Plan...Sell one and Restore the other "I MUST RESTORE A BERTRAM 31"
V8legend

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 1st, '10, 15:40

Never seen one like that before!! Single engine???

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 1st, '10, 17:11

Yep, 6-53 Detroit setting right down the middle with a 20" prop. should like 18 knots or so at cruse. Notice the "Head Lights", our boats have these locations defined in the hull, but no lights were ever installed. The cabins are bare-bones and everything is as heavy and thick as you would expect for the Coast Guard. They may have been fitted out at the CG yard in Baltimore Md.
V8legend

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 1st, '10, 17:36

A pocket for the single prop on the stern?

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 1st, '10, 18:06

Well, sort of... the V bottom is interrupted at the prop shaft exit and the stern is arched at the center-line by about 4 inched above the closest chines.
Another feature on the stern is a slight "V" like they were trying to make it "Double Ended" or reduce the splash from a following sea.
V8legend

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 1st, '10, 18:06

Steve,

Dang, I really hate to be the one to tell you this on your first day aboard, but what you have are not Bertram 31' hulls.

I don't know just who's hull they are, but most definitely not a Bertram hull...

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Patrick

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 1st, '10, 18:42

Well, we got lead into the "Bertram" direction by the caption at the bottom of the USCG photo. Dang, and I had memorized the "I must rebuild a Bertram 31" video. Thanks for all the help...I have some inquires in at the Baltimore Coast Guard Yard to see if they know anything about these.
Thanks, again V8legend

TailhookTom · Post by **TailhookTom** » Nov 1st, '10, 18:47

I don't know what it is, but I suspect it is something made in the Pacific Northwest.

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Nov 1st, '10, 19:18

Looks like it might be an old Uniflite hull.
Al

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Nov 2nd, '10, 06:14

......for a moment there, I was picturing someone with an outrageous center console !!

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 2nd, '10, 08:24

I think Al may be right. Those Uniflite hulls were used by the government for gunboats as well. The Apocalypse Now boat was a Uniflite. They were heavily built hulls that I hear were pretty good.

We still like you though for wanting one!! That will probably make you a good sound boat too.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Nov 2nd, '10, 10:25

I think there were also Hatteras 28 "knockoff" hulls used in Viet Nam

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 2nd, '10, 11:34

I'm with y'all that its a Uniflite. I stopped by their yard north of Seattle years ago and they had dozens scattered around like that one.

Won't break it, that's for sure - the hulls are super thick.

UV

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Nov 2nd, '10, 11:42

I was going to buy a Uniflite boat with my combat pay on my way back from Vietnam. My uncle knew one of the board members and he took us out to the yard where we stood behind a 1/4 inch steel plate and he fired a 45 point blank at the hull on a 26 footer I liked. It left a little lead stain and that was all. I don't know where the bullet went, but after a year of getting shot at, it didn't bother me long.

They made a great boat. There were lotf of them in Alaska.

Dick

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 2nd, '10, 15:44

Well the plot thickens...Here is a reply I got from the USCG Historian..
Mr. Wilson,

We do not have histories on individual boats. The 31-foot Port Security Boats were built by Bertram and the CG Yard. I am in the midst of building pages on small boats and have not done one for the 31-footer. It will be done soon and you can find it at http://www.uscg.mil/history/boats/SmallBoatIndex.asp once it is completed and posted. It should be done soon.

As I said it won't have any information on individual boats but will address the class and provide specs. If there are any line drawings, those will be included as well. If you want plans, however, you are going to have to contact the CG Yard or the National Archives.

Chris Havern
Staff Historian

Commandant (CG-092)
ATTN: Chris Havern
U.S. Coast Guard
2100 Second Street SW, Stop 7362
Washington, DC 20593-7362

So It IS a BERTRAM and it IS 31 foot, just NOT the "Bertram 31" of Fame and Fortune.
Is this like dating your own sister? It's ALMOST like the real thing, just not quite! V8Legend

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 2nd, '10, 16:48

So It IS a BERTRAM and it IS 31 foot, just NOT the "Bertram 31" of Fame and Fortune.

Nope.... Not a Bertram hull of any size, shape, or form. Not a Hunt design and not a Napier design.

I noticed that Mr. Wilson listed the manufacturer of at least one boat, (The 43-foot FCI was designed and constructed by Tempest Marine), and several others I looked at didn't include the manufacturer. If he includes the manufacturer of the 31 as Bertram I'll have to respectfully disagree.

Unquestionably, the Coast Guard did the design the superstructure...

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 2nd, '10, 20:18

The only guys who will know for sure are the old Bertram Guys. Don't think any of the old staff is left that we can probably track down through this site.

However, I agree with everyone else, not a Bertram Hull. Really does look like an old Uniflight. They were supposed to be fire proof as well as heavy.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Nov 3rd, '10, 01:36

The Danvers Harbormaster had one of these back in the late 1980's
it was a Coast Guard surplus, single 6-53 inboard it was made by Uniflite, fire resistant glass and bullet proof, like the river patrol boats used in Viet Nam, I think they still have it.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 3rd, '10, 09:50

Pete, Because we all know they need that in Barnstable! LOL!!!

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 3rd, '10, 11:33

From an E-mail by R.Wyco of USCG

I remember those boats, we used them here at the training center Yorktown VA to teach students single screw theory. I spent time on them here at the dock mooring and unmooring while attending Boatswain mate A school as a student in 1983. (eye witness)

(My speculation follows:) I recall some of them being used by Marine Safety Units in the 1980's to respond to oil spills and train reserves. The Coast Guard yard in Baltimore built a lot of CG boats from 44 foot Motor Lifeboats in the sixties to 41 foot Utility boats in the 1970's. The Coast Guard yard even built all fiberglass 30 foot surf rescue boats. The 31's don't appear to have played any significant part of our war or rescue culture and the 32 foot PSB were utilized a lot more, they may have had the same manufacturer CG yard or consulting agreement between yard and civilian boat builder. Bertram very well could have built them for us from an off the shelf design, doesn't have to be their hull. Great mystery though.
Try the CG yard in Baltimore, I bet there is an old box in an attic somewhere with specs and info on them.

...........So were these;
A) Built by someone whos first name was Bertram?
B) Towed by the Bertram Factory on their way to USCG?
C) The Same Fiberglass supplier was used on this and Bertrams?
D) Bertram contracted to USCG to fabricate a USCG Design?
E) I'm running out of guesses and wondering what to do with my "BERTRAM 31" Tattoo?? V8Legend

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 3rd, '10, 13:54

Look at the inside of the hull, under any paint. Is the fiberglass green?

UV

Jareb · Post by **Jareb** » Nov 3rd, '10, 15:19

Tony Meola wrote:The only guys who will know for sure are the old Bertram Guys. Don't think any of the old staff is left that we can probably track down through this site.

However, I agree with everyone else, not a Bertram Hull. Really does look like an old Uniflight. They were supposed to be fire proof as well as heavy.

Tony...Isnt Lee Dana still around?....I think he lives down the road from me in Vero Beach

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 3rd, '10, 15:39

LEE DANA AND ASSOCIATES
Marine Consultants
210 Ocean Beach Trail
Vero Beach, Florida 32963
Phone: 772-234-5211
Fax: 772-234-2590

Past: Senior Vice President Engineering, Bertram Yachts

Current: President, Lee Dana and Associates

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 3rd, '10, 16:26

Hey Guys,

I just hung from from a nice conversation with Lee Dana. He is a wonderful gentleman who recently turned 80, and he had spent time with me on the phone years ago when I inquired about the matter of hull numbers. As Patrick pointed out, he was formally Sr. VP of Engineering for Bertram Yachts, and he told me his service there was from 1961 to 1991. I asked him about the issue we are discussing in this thread, and he said that there was no way that they would have built a hull for the USCG or any other entity using a non-Bertram designed hull. He said that would have wreaked havoc on their production process. He said they did sell some 31s to the CIA, the Israeli Military, and some other government entities, but they were all true Bertrams, designed and built. They never contract-built any hulls but their own. Thank you, Mr. Dana, for taking the time to answer my many questions about Bertrams.

Tommy

Jareb · Post by **Jareb** » Nov 3rd, '10, 17:16

Tommy,
Thanks for relaying the information. Mr Dana is a great resource and from a guy who was actually at Bertram. He is so close to me....I should have picked his brain years ago.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 3rd, '10, 21:36

Just wasn't sure if what Lee's status was. Don't see his name used anymore.

I don't think anyone knows what happened to Richard Kidd the other Bertram Expert. Not sure what type of past history Danny Piedro from High Tide has.

But looks like we have our answer. Not a Bertram hull in any way.

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 8th, '10, 13:45

Found a Jan 1969 USCG Reservist Article on the boats..looks like at least 22 of them were made and I quote "The Coast Guard Yard has completed four prototype 31' Port Security Boats" so even though the fiberglass IS GREEN and everyone in the Coast Guard calls them "Bertrams" I'm siding with the guys in the "Sand Box" not a Bertram by any strech of the imagination......I wonder if the CG guys call all soft drinks "Coke"
I have found 5 different hull #s but have yet to find any on our boats. We are switching from scraping to a "green" paint remover to ease our way down to the original USCG #
Thanks, for all your help, and I will post when I find out more info, maybe a shot of it at it's clamed top speed of 21.5 knots! V8legend

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 8th, '10, 14:38

Very interesting enigma! Please keep us posted!!

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 15th, '10, 13:23

Just got a PDF from the Coast Guard History folks, check it out at;

www.uscg.mil/history/boats/docs/31FootPSB.pdf

Quoting now "CG-31001 through CG31004 were built by Bertram Boat Works, Miami, FL. CG-31005 through 310019 were constructed at the CG Yard at Curtis Bay, MD."

Also says Single engine and "TWIN" props????

Have no Idea yet as to what hull #s we have but they only have 56 and 37 hour respectfully.
...I continue to be confussed.. its good for the brain... V8legend :?

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Nov 15th, '10, 14:34

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 15th, '10, 14:35

V8Legend wrote:
Also says Single engine and "TWIN" props????

Look at that...you have a Non-Bertram, Bertram with Duo-Props to boot!!

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 15th, '10, 16:03

Yep...Now if the Easter Bunny will tell me the hull numbers, the Tooth Ferry will help me get them documented by the US Coast Guard.....OH wait....they're the ones that messed up the old numbers....Catch 22 anyone?

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Nov 15th, '10, 19:57

There is what looks like one of these parked on the side of the overseas hwy at the Marathon Boatyard w/ a for sale sign. It's defintely the same hull, cap and house similar. I'll stop tomorrow to see what I can learn.

The Dorado 40 and 30 have a single engine to twin drives option...
large diesel with a straight shaft to a series of gearing that branches off to two shafts which go to outdrives... or something along them lines.

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 16th, '10, 11:21

Good eyes! see if the owner knows the original Coat Guard Hull Number they ran From 31001 to 31029. I just scored a hit from the USCG Historians office and they will copy all of documents they have. If there are orders for Bertram in '68 then we'll know a little about the early prototypes. But the main production was in Balitmore at the Yard.
The TWIN Prop line is a typo these are deffinately SINGLES.
So they are USCG designed and made, but got the Bertram tag because the early prototypes were made somewhere in the Bertram organization for the Coast Guard. Funny how a Name Sticks..... V8legend

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Nov 16th, '10, 22:05

Not much help here V8... The boat is a 1992 KeysCraft.

The hull is the same, but chopped a few feet at the transom...says it's a 27

My best guess is that they had some of whatever your boats are at one of the Keys CG Stations or Military bases. When they were decomm'ed someone bought one and splashed a mold to make clones to sell to the commercial fishing market.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 16th, '10, 22:24

You know it is possible that Bertram built them to Coast Guard specs and did not use a 31 mold. Could have been a special one off.

nestorpr · Post by **nestorpr** » Nov 16th, '10, 23:52

Tony Meola wrote:You know it is possible that Bertram built them to Coast Guard specs and did not use a 31 mold. Could have been a special one off.

That's what I was thinking, Bertram did a few special projects for other companies and agencies and this might be one of them.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Nov 17th, '10, 00:16

I dunno guys, I think Tommy's conversation w/ Lee Dana would've trumped that theory:

I just hung from from a nice conversation with Lee Dana. He is a wonderful gentleman who recently turned 80, and he had spent time with me on the phone years ago when I inquired about the matter of hull numbers. As Patrick pointed out, he was formally Sr. VP of Engineering for Bertram Yachts, and he told me his service there was from 1961 to 1991. I asked him about the issue we are discussing in this thread, and he said that there was no way that they would have built a hull for the USCG or any other entity using a non-Bertram designed hull. He said that would have wreaked havoc on their production process. He said they did sell some 31s to the CIA, the Israeli Military, and some other government entities, but they were all true Bertrams, designed and built. They never contract-built any hulls but their own. Thank you, Mr. Dana, for taking the time to answer my many questions about Bertrams.

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 17th, '10, 11:10

Found another Bertram reference
"Naval Institute's Guide to the Ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet 18th edition" Page 609 Has the first 4 boats with hull # 31001 through 31004 made at the Bertram Co. Miami Fl. Possibly in a development or prototype group of Bertram? Even so, they were USCG designed and the only thing they would have in common with a Bertram 31' is the workmanship of the builders. The rest of the hull numbers 31005 through 31029 were built at the USCG Yard in Baltimore Md. Hopefully thet tryed to match the quality of craftmanship that Bertram put into the prototypes.
Keep looking!!!

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Nov 24th, '10, 16:22

Head back from the author of United States Coast Guard Harbor Patrol Fleet 1924-1980 Kennneth Suterland and I quote" The Builder of 31001to 31004 was Bretram in 1963. Hulls 31005 through 31028 were Coast Guard Yard starting in 1964" This 5 full years earlier than I thought and predates the Bertram Production managers time there. So everyone may be right! I'm still waiting for the USCG Historians office to finish copying all of the files they have and shipping them out here to Cal. There should be so GOOD STUFF in there......V8Legend

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Jan 11th, '11, 12:38

USCG Bertram 31 Mystery Solved
The Coast guard purchased 4ea. 31' foot Bertram Convertibles in 1964. They Numbered them as 31001 through 31004. Then wrote a specification in 1966 and produced their own boats in the USCG Yard in Baltimore in 1969. They CONTINUED the 3100X numbering series AND INCORRECTLY the use of the Bertram name. I've sent Capt. Patrick some photos of the bone stock Bertram 31 with USCG Marking!

The USCG Historian's office was a tremendous help in digging all of this info up for me and other owners of the Miss-Labeled 31 foot USCG Boats.
Thanks, Steve Wilson (V8Legend) :-D

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 11th, '11, 13:19

Cool!! I look forward to seeing them. Good work!

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 11th, '11, 13:40

The real deal

The imposter

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jan 11th, '11, 13:43

Now that is a B-31!

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Jan 11th, '11, 14:42

Steve,

Thanks for staying on the mystery until you got to the bottom of it.....good detective work.

Tommy

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Jan 11th, '11, 17:14

Between that photo and this quote lies the answer.

"CG-31001 through CG31004 were built by Bertram Boat Works, Miami, FL. CG-31005 through 310019 were constructed at the CG Yard at Curtis Bay, MD."

The USCG tends to use length as a boat indicator. Since the first 4 hulls were Bertrams, the name just stuck for the rest of the 31ft craft and people mistaken refered to the CG31??? series all as Bertrams.

The picture posted by capt pat reasonably proves this theory.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jan 11th, '11, 17:29

CG 31001 RT. Whats the RT stand for?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 11th, '11, 17:50

Shorthand for Rolling Little Death TRap.

UV

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 11th, '11, 17:58

R-eal T-hing

V8Legend · Post by **V8Legend** » Jan 18th, '11, 16:52

The "RT" is for Reserve Training. I found a Disposition log for 1985 and 31001-2-3 were still in service with 31004 de-commissioned. My 2 "wantabe" hulls turned out to be 31014 and 15. 31015 should be in the water as soon as the crane gets fixed....It's always something slowing you down. Thanks, Steve W.

bertram31.com

2 rescued 31' Bertram/Coast Guard PSBs

2 rescued 31' Bertram/Coast Guard PSBs

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