Total Redo Questions

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 2nd, '10, 09:35

I've spent a fair amount of time looking at all the refurbs of the fly bridge model. There is some really amazing work that has been done. And while i am not in a financial position to take on this kind of project it is really fun to day dream about the what ifs.

In any case i have some questions to design choices and such just out of curiosity.

1. I understand why the hardcore fishing boats do not have a swim platform but many are not even outfitted with small steps on the transom this would seem to be an issue of no means of reboarding unassisted. Fall in the water with nobody around and your as good as dead.

2. Most redos the railing on the bridge cap is removed which leaves few places to hold on when you have walk up to the bow. How do you get up on the bow in rough seas or maybe you just dont.

3. I dont love the idea of the original bridge ladder and personally prefer nice cushions on the engine boxes for passengers. But especially for the older gents with bad knees and such i havent seen many solutions that dont require serious climbing to get to the bridge.

4. Bob talked about adding structural integrity by glassing in the front windows. It seems to me a big plus of the original cabin was all the windows giving passngers a great view while running and an open feeling while hanging in the cabin. I know it looks great glassed in from the outside but is there more to it then that?

5. On the bridge many have a captains chair and then a rumble seat behind it which overhangs the back of the bridge. Are these sturdy enough to hold 2 or 3 large men while running?

Thats just some of the things that make me wonder why and how. Sheding some light on these would be very helpful. Again i am totally new around here, have little experience with my recently purchased B31 and am just curious.

Thanks Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 2nd, '10, 09:56

Another question i forgot to ask.

Its not all that quiet in the cabin while running even with the door closed. Its also louder with a pair of diesels. Is there an improvement of insulating the engine compartments that cuts down on the noise?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 2nd, '10, 10:08

Pete - Soundown, an insulation with a lead sheet in the middle is an essential, especially with diesels....and it reduces the heat transfer thru the engine boxes.

The front window glass-ins are mostly because the cool looking original windowns on the B31 leak like a fire hose and down South here we put a/c in and that helps keep the interior cool. You sight see off the fb.

Some of the other guys will help ya on the other questions.

UV

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 2nd, '10, 10:10

PeterPalmieri wrote:I've spent a fair amount of time looking at all the refurbs of the fly bridge model. There is some really amazing work that has been done. And while i am not in a financial position to take on this kind of project it is really fun to day dream about the what ifs.

In any case i have some questions to design choices and such just out of curiosity.

1. I understand why the hardcore fishing boats do not have a swim platform but many are not even outfitted with small steps on the transom this would seem to be an issue of no means of reboarding unassisted. Fall in the water with nobody around and your as good as dead.

If you plan on running the boat or fishing alone this is absolutely true. I fell off a 31B one November while tied up at Captree. Don't ask how that happened, anyway I was able to get out because there were folks near by, but out on the ocean, even the bay, it would have been a big issue.

2. Most redos the railing on the bridge cap is removed which leaves few places to hold on when you have walk up to the bow. How do you get up on the bow in rough seas or maybe you just dont.

You can go through the bow hatch. I like rails around the bridge, in my mind form follows function.

3. I dont love the idea of the original bridge ladder and personally prefer nice cushions on the engine boxes for passengers. But especially for the older gents with bad knees and such i havent seen many solutions that dont require serious climbing to get to the bridge.

4. Bob talked about adding structural integrity by glassing in the front windows. It seems to me a big plus of the original cabin was all the windows giving passngers a great view while running and an open feeling while hanging in the cabin. I know it looks great glassed in from the outside but is there more to it then that?

The windows leak. Always. It also adds some hanging storage space. That said, for twenty years we ran 31 bertrams with windows not knowing any better and we were very happy. I like being able to see, and I am sure your wife will feel less claustrophobic with the windows. The 32 Blackfin has glassed in windows, and it is more rigid for it, and drier inside, but not as nice to ride in.

5. On the bridge many have a captains chair and then a rumble seat behind it which overhangs the back of the bridge. Are these sturdy enough to hold 2 or 3 large men while running?

Yes, if the weight is directed properly. Capt Pat has details on this, as do a few other guys.

Its not all that quiet in the cabin while running even with the door closed. Its also louder with a pair of diesels. Is there an improvement of insulating the engine compartments that cuts down on the noise?

Yes. Lots of things you can do, including adding some Sounddown. But like anything else, it should be done properly to work properly.

I am sure you will get lots of responses to these, but these are my two cents.

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Dec 2nd, '10, 10:26

rumble seat is great-when my wife and I travel it works and properly beefed up it hold two guys if thats your gig--noise,my cummins are quieter at cruise than the gassers after soundown was installed. no bowrail no problem,just don't go forward when its rough-or when washing down ask my wife, armstrong ladder is a perfect solution to a swim platform,saves x dollars/ft/month and lastly when the big green one comes crashing your way the glassed in windows get more cost effective. Bill

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 2nd, '10, 18:07

ok peter by the numbers; right foot into starboard exhaust outlet left foot into scuppers then right leg over stern gunnel, very easy.front window on 31 with bridge absolutely useless . best view from bridge but for those whom cannot take the "one step" to bridge (look at mike o`s predator)sitting in salon on bench you would be looking out side window either facing forward or toward stern ,don`t forget if you do all the proper balance work the boat will be riding bow proud and you cannot see out the front window anyway if you can , the boat is not set up right.most elect to sit on 4" cushons mounted on engine boxes facing stern with legs prop up on engine box and back against bulkhead ,very coftable with sounddown engine compartment.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Dec 2nd, '10, 18:52

I thought that the stock bow rail was dangerous, so I welded one up.

And didn't like the ladder, so I incorporated a step into the gin pole.

The step swings aside for engins access.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Dec 2nd, '10, 19:07

I changed my bow rail also for the same reason as Mike.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 2nd, '10, 19:10

peter the man is a genius this is how bertram should have desigh the boat . this is the best possible way to ascend to the bridge.now one person can sit on each engine box .

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 2nd, '10, 19:30

You can "help" the window leakage with a white Dacron or Stamoid fitted piece that goes over the front windows. Light comes through the fabric so it doesn't darken the area too much.
As far as the steps go, older models have a chrome plated step on the side pilasters that allow you to go from the engine box to the bridge in 2 moves. I can't recommend it for kids and family on a rough day, but they are helpful at times. Some have used their gin pole as a device. Mike's is a good example.
I would not remove the rails on the bridge sides. They ARE helpful/important in the process of tying up at the end of the day, but I don't send anyone up there to anchor. I use the ball/basket method from the cockpit. If you want to work from the bow, I have found it a lot more stable opening up the front hatch and standing on the bunks.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Dec 2nd, '10, 19:39

Peter, The beauty of this site is ALL the ideas are here...pick n choose what youd like for your ride...I had an idea of how I wanted my total rehab to end up..have done alot of do overs after seeing even better ideas on JPs, Brewsters, Bobs, Mikes, Charlies, Harrys and the many endless ways Capt Pat has pushed the bar. BH

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 2nd, '10, 19:54

just for the record....i've ascended and descended from mikes bridge in sporty conditions ......piece of cake. the key is the line. at least thats how i do it.

and i must have the only bertram on the planet who's front windows don't leak.....but it is a 25.

Capt.Frank · Post by **Capt.Frank** » Dec 2nd, '10, 20:13

Randall, my front window don't leak either but the starboard side window leaks bad.

I keep thinking about glassing in the front windows, but with no generator need windows open when fishing in summer.

I like the idea of a nice bench seat for two on bridge vs the extra stress on the brow.

my 2 cents

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 2nd, '10, 21:31

Peter

If you need to redo the original bench seat, you can build it yourself or for about 1,000 Pompanette will make one for you. Capt. Pat has the directions for building a seat. I believe in the tips section.

I took the center leg out of ours and we put a tackle box under it. Dam thing lasted 30 years now the 1/2 ply is giving up the ghost and have to build a new box over the winter.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 2nd, '10, 21:32

Bob,

I am glad you mentioned using 4" foam for the engine boxes I am having that done now and was going to go with 3"....

Brewster and Mike I know the boat looks sexy without the rail but a sturdy one seems very functional. A few years back I was sent up to the bow of a 31 JC to get us unhooked from a pot in the canyon with 8-10s, was darn glad it had a bow rail..

I will never forget the exhaust scupper trick..

My front windows leak FWIW

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 2nd, '10, 22:03

Mike's bow rail is not the stock one with separate pieces locked together with set screws his is a welded one piece bow rail and is much stronger and stable than stock.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Dec 2nd, '10, 22:46

These windows don't leak. They're also fixed, none of them open. I can be in the cockpit and see all around the boat when we're slow trolling.

Its also nice in the cabin. Lots of light and scenery, and makes it feel a little bigger.

And if she'll be sitting at the dock or when we're overnighting-

If you look in the first and third picture, there are hand holds on the front of the flybridge. They were there when I got the boat, don't look to great, but really work well.

I don't like the steps to the flybridge either. Nice solution on Tom Ward's 31 Rumrunner was new pipe work around the bridge, with steps that hinged on top of the flybridge and folded up really easily for engine compartment access.

My B31 is really quiet. She's a gasser with Soundown. Works great.

Then again, I also have one of those pulpits most folks don't like. Works great and I like the look.

My seating solution. Nice tackle storage. I wound up taking the starboard seat out--I'm short and it was a paint to step over--and replaced it with a cushion. My wife likes the port seat. Not a great all around solution but it works for me. Helm is really comfortable--much better than the bench, and I also still have seating for my wife and kid(s). I did this when my kids were younger, and wanted them up where I could see 'em.

That little mahogany rectangle on the overhang with a couple of small eyelets around it--made for a small cooler and bungees. I got tired of having to ask for a beer/water, and wanted my own cooler.

Nice thing about getting a B31 is you get to make it your boat how you want it to be. Use the ideas you like, and reject the ones you don't. No matter what, you'll still have a great boat. Have fun.

John

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 2nd, '10, 23:07

John

Looks like you are the first one to figure out how not to have those damn windows leak. What is the secret.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Dec 3rd, '10, 07:01

Tony-

They don't open. I sealed the window into the frame, then sealed the frame into the opening. Before I redid the windows, and you could still open the fronts, they leaked.

John

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 08:43

Thanks for all the helpful tips guys.

At this point i am going to stick with the bench seat although id like to raise it a bit and move it back a few inches. Its a little low with the seat back up and when you stand it hits you in the shins. But at this point with my 16 month old son, id eventually like to get him up on the bridge with me and the bench kind of stops him from roaming around.

Whats the exact model on the soundown and can anyone recommend a place to get it. The insulation i have now is old and tired. This would be a real simple project to do on a mild winter day.

The way my boat is setup with the back legs of the tower coming down to the gunwale it provides a pretty nice ladder to the bridge and leaves the boxes open for seating. Not sure how easy it will be for my 70+ parents to get up to though.

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Dec 3rd, '10, 08:59

What about window leaks for us "bahia guys" ?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 09:06

peter i should have mention that i go to fire island national seashore with the entire family (10 people) at least 8 times a year. on holidays you will never get a slip so you have to moor out on the west side. so you unload everyone with coolers ,beach chairs ,and so on then you go moor out and went a slip comes up i get on the boat the way i said at stern. i should mention if your 6' you can swim to port side put both hands on gunnel and left foot in exaust then up and over.i should also mention the number one reason to do windshield job was the boss lady.the women /grand children change cloths 4 times a day the privacy issue became important. the side windows are tempered limosine glass and still very bright inside .from her view the windshield was horrible it looked terriblely dated with all the acorn nuts showing .here is the new look.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 09:12

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 09:57

That does look great bob. I will likely be doing many of the same trips this year. This may be a choice that my wife ultimately has some serious input on.

BTW just got an email from jim levison who is a fly fishing guide and outdoor photographer out of montauk he has some great blitz photos for sale on his website.

http://www.jimlevisonphoto.com/montauk_h.html

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:01

Bob i see you didnt replace the interior boards inside the dinette. The part with the holes in it, whatever that stuff is called. Mine seems to be a little soft. I hate to have to rip out the dinette i am think of resurfacing the benches and table with a veneer over the winter. Is that what you did. Obviously the table is new and looks great.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:14

nice pics

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:21

peter i should mention they have a federal marine biologist at the historical center that gives two classes a day ( free) one is a tour of sunken forrest and the unique indigious life in the forrest and the other is along the shore .classes are for children 6 to 12 years old.needless to say my wife grabs me by the ear ----you will take the children there on pa pa boat , so thats the main deal on the windshield because the v-berth is to low to change the women use the cabin. the bathroom facility is over a half mile from basin area and not suitable for changing so start thinking about a nice women orientated head.when the wife loves the boat your life becomes alot easier!! here is updated photo of cabin with corian counters complete . the cabin is still to bright with new windshield, bear in mind you cannot see anything looking from outside.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:23

cwj wrote:nice pics

He does great work. I was president of Eastern Flyrodders for 2 years, a salt water fly fishing club based out of Riverhead. Jim has come to the club a few times and given a pictoral talk about fly fishing in Montauk.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:23

that is the rear window template laying against the window .when you are ready i have it.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:25

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:33

just might buy one, love bass

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:34

i guess you are referring to the masonite inside the cutouts use for storage. mine were in good shape so i repainted them . i use that storage and one of the pockets contain the F.i. for the cabin . the pockets have been enlarged and capped with a U shaped vinyl .
the photo`s of blitz are great!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:40

Bob when i was a kid we would stay over at watch hill on my parents boat and they shipped me off to those types of events. This was back in the 80s. At that time they had snorkling, there was an exposed ship wreck on the beach a few miles east that we would hike to and they had a small theatre up by the showers where they would show movies about FI history, wildlife and sometimes fun stuff too.

My sister and brotherinlaw keep there boat in oakdale yacht and do lots of day trips to sunken forest with the three kids Now that i have a son i want him to have that same experience. A B31 is a heck of a boat to do that type of stuff in.

Getting from babylon to the beach in my flats boat wasnt all that fun even before we had our son. The B31 while it is a fishing machine my first concern is that the boat will be a place that the family will enjoy and want to be on every weekend. My wife didnt grow up as a beach and boat person so the creature comforts are very important.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:50

Peter-Next Fall, trail the flats boat out East. You can leave it at my house and come back and forth to it at Blitz time... I'm a flyrod nut, too, but find it difficult alone with the 31 in the midst of "the misquito fleet".

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 10:57

you said it all . i totally agree and the bertram 31 can be use as both a family boat and fishing boat . most important to give children/grandchildren a differant propective of life other then video games!!! you can make that boat into something she will love and enjoy the beach/boat seen. bigger is not better due to boat draft in bay and slip availibility on 14' beam and larger on fire island.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:03

Bob,

You gonna be down at the boat today or over the weekend? I'd love to check it out.

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:17

Walter,

My pictures aren't as nice as Jim's but these are all spots Bob drives past on his way out everyday.

OBI

Sexton Island

Clam Pond

West Sayville Golf Course

Captree Marsh banks

Bob here is an old photo from when we used to fish for Weaks in Connetquot river (probably 1998 or so)

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:40

thanks i needed that i cringe as i past sexton island knowing damm well there are big bass sleeping in that 28' hole but i would have to go in 1' of water to get to it also west island that 2' then a big hole. that is what my son and i are builting the 20' bertram for!.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:42

i will be at the boat today at 1pm . boat is on the hard at north end of basin.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:48

That bass from clam pond is due south on the bar between east and west FI. I was in about 1' of water the problem is the ferry throws a wake heading into fair harbor that breaks over the bar. While i was landing that fish i had about 10" of water in the boat. It broke right over the gunwales as the hull sat flat on the sand.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:50

Walter i have the non resident permit to launch from ponquage but never have i been able to find a good spot to launch to get me over to gardiners island. Some great flats fishing over there.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 11:56

Bob,

You can get into steam boat channel from the south and head up towards the east end of sexton the channel is about 8' deep all the way up to sexton. But it is tricky.

I mostly drop in at captree and fish from the draw bridge to the eastern flat on sexton. Sometimes i hop over to clam pond and sometimes run over to the OBI. Never had a bass over 25lbs in those areas with the fly rod but plenty of fish in the 36" range. In my flats boat i burn about 4 gallons per trip.

This year the fishing was great up to mid july. It was dead in august but they were back on the flats in september.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 3rd, '10, 12:55

peter...there are 4 public launch spots within 5 minutes of my house....all with great access to gardiner's island. three in 3 mile harbor and one in accabonac. i live two and a half miles from walter...................as the crow flies. ive gone to gardiners in my canoe and kayak....not far at all.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 3rd, '10, 14:37

Both Randall and I can show you launch ramps all with easy access to the Gardiner's area flats. Those areas are still productive during your slow months. Come on out!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 17:59

I am now planning on it. Can you pay by the day at these ramps?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 3rd, '10, 18:04

Some are so obscure, no one even looks. For the others, bring the boat and we'll switch trucks at the ramp for ticketless parking.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 3rd, '10, 18:23

PAY?....ha ha...ive been using them for 30 years with no sticker and have never had a problem. and i know one thats kind of a secret that almost no one knows about. worst case we can use my truck...so no worries.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 19:06

Bob was nice enough to give me the tour of Phoenix today. Unbelievable boat and Bob is a walking encyclopedia of knowledge. The amount of thought that went into everything he's done is just amazing.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Dec 3rd, '10, 19:24

Randall,

You guys will appreciate this flats boat. I had it custom made and it is perfect for that kind of fishing. Supper stable, silent in the water, drifts well and its almost maintenence free. The boat is solid below the decks, accept for a pipe that runs from the console to the stern for the rigging. All the boxes drain overboard. There is no reason for a bilge pump on the boat.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 3rd, '10, 19:52

famous last words!!

just kidding. i'm sure walter and i would have a lot of fun. i know gardiners island pretty well.....i've even surfed there. i see flats boats working cartwright shoal a lot.

bertram31.com

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