New Member / New Boat

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 16th, '10, 10:13

Thanks Ed. This is a welcome suprise.

I haven't done the tally but it looks like at least a half dozen guys on this board betweeen Freeport and Oakdale. A 15 mile radius from me...And another 3 or 4 on the east end. That's awesome and I look forward to meeting everyone in the future and of course checking out their boats and getting some eyes on my boat for suggestions.

I also know of some guys that aren't here another B31 in the Babylon Village dock (Argyle Park), Phil who I've fished with is in West Islip and an ABYC electrician, Dan, who is going to help me rewire the boat has a B31 in Islip just across the creek from where the boat is currently docked.

A big bonus especially considering I've got a decent amount of work to do, have a limited budget and need to prioritize what is important.

I will limit myself in how far I venture from the dock until she is in better operational condition. One thing that I don't see changing from a fishing stand point is I'm a fly fisherman, who occassionally will jig for tuna and bass. I have no interest in trolling wire or bait fishing unless I'm chumming to bring fish into range of my fly....

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 16th, '10, 14:10

Pete,

Bob is referring to the extra "bite" that you get from Patrick's oversized rudders. A real steep following sea, especially entering an inlet, can result in the bow of the boat to "dig in" and the stern of the boat to be shoved around into a broach situation. The larger rudders do a much better job of planting the stern and tracking the boat in the intended direction.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 16th, '10, 14:44

How much do the ozersized rudders increase the draft? And how much deeper are they then the originals?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 16th, '10, 16:25

PeterPalmieri wrote:How much do the ozersized rudders increase the draft? And how much deeper are they then the originals?

None & 1"

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 16th, '10, 17:05

An essential upgrade for the B31. Without them the boat is not controllable on one engine. I had the smallest of the stock rudders and Capt. Patrick's oversize rudders made an amazing difference in performance, buth at low speed and cruise. Less rudder deflection to keep her straight equals less drag equals more speed. A gotta have.

UV

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Nov 16th, '10, 17:44

I have a B31 gasser that I've been slowly upgrading over the years (limited budget). I put Cap. Patrick's rudders on a few years ago, and they are a must have as soon as possible. Even if you don't slow troll, they're great. The B31 on 1 engine with the stock 1969 rudders is awful--can't hold a line or turn against the motor at all, so if you break one motor, you're calling Seatow or going in ever widening circles. With the rudders, you're set. At speed, the B31 handles great with the oversized rudders--without, not so great. Get 'em---nowMy 2 cents.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 16th, '10, 18:07

tommy with a much better vocabulary and explain it rather well. lets take a minute and think of a nuclear sub on a emergency surface trial. that is what i do by 1st removing all weight in the bow . actually under the v-berth cushions i have my off shore pfd`s and a emergency alluminum fortress anchor with 100' of rode.(main anchor with 28' of chain and 1200' of rode in basket under deck).i even removed bow rail thats why i reacted to that bow pulpit.2nd the cummins 330hp have 1360 lbs of torque at 1800 rpm , so i keep the rpm`s at 1900rpm with the boat running very bow proud the stern is deep in the water with those rudders holding her dead straight.i look at that wall of water put wheel straight and just use single lever controls to move boat in either direction instantly . the amount of instant power is tremendous it will launth the boat straight in the air with these experimental props allowing me to go over the first wave then instant turn right or left into trough then hit second wave on angle the third and usually final wave i transverse and now i am in the ocean . i look like one of those coast guard boats in washington state that crazy inlet i cannot remember name. anyways you have to be sure of your self and if you "stuff it" you can be ashored you going to be in alot of trouble!.the boat will power over a 13' wave with total confidents and the good news is you will be the only boat out there without some idiot driving over the bass with birds going wild. if you lose the stern your dead!!! must have rudders!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 16th, '10, 20:36

That sounds insane and a lot of fun at the same time. I cant wait to see this machine of yours. I will plan on doing the rudders in the spring.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 16th, '10, 22:43

i would not call it fun more like desperation. nov and dec the cold north winds cause bad conditions offshore if you go by noaa report , might be 6 to 7' wave forecast for near shore that usually 2 or 3 miles out on any givin day but within 1/2 mile of shore fire island breaks that wind and it may be 2 and 3 footers with a big swell once in a while. you can hug the shore and the wind will keep you from getting caught in the surf while you sight cast with a a-27 on a spinning reel .we stay 200 yards off birds which normally indicate were the bluefish are feeding while the bass hang back.my boat works for me while the 45' cabo takes a beating with waves going over into cockpit.very dangeous and the 54' of bertram not much better. cannot make this stuff up how the hell can a 31' bertram out perform a 45' cabo in this huge wave situation ---it just does mainly the 31 bertram can go between while the 54' and 45' get hit by two waves one of the waves breaking over the front.my "machine" took 10 years it was manly do to the great advice from the guys in this sand box!!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 17th, '10, 11:52

I am having a ABYC electrician look at the boat on saturday. Some immediate things on the survey i want to address before winter. I am hoping to move the boat to Babylon on Sunday. Then ive got to get a canvas guy come by to fit me with a cockpit cover as the boat will be in the water for the winter. Im hoping to hold off on winterization until mid december so i can run the boat more if the weather permits.

I was told to put a bag of rocksalt in the bilge to keep any water from freezing and fouling up the pumps. Any other good ideas?

Pete

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 17th, '10, 12:26

I would opt for anti freeze (nontoxic) instead of rock salt. Salt is really corrosive especially when concentrated. 'nuf said...

As long as the boat is in the water, don't really need to worry about water in the bilge freezing.

When its out of the water, shrink wrap it.

And pull the hull plug.

Add antifreeze if there is a low spot, because you will never get the yard to "adjust" how she sits.

Never leave a boat unnattended in winter storage state for more than a couple weeks. Its amazing what can develop when not checked on occasionally. Doesn't have to be a deep project visit. It can be a look see occasionally. But you never know!

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 17th, '10, 12:32

i would not put anything in the bilge, open up the drains and leave it.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 17th, '10, 13:41

The winter slip is in walking distance of the house so i do plan on being there often. Non toxic antifreeze sounds like a good idea. The boat will only come out for a short time in the spring for a bottom cleaning and some work. I will not be shrink wrapping the boat or pulling the hull plug for any extended period.

Pete

Ed Curry · Post by **Ed Curry** » Nov 17th, '10, 15:34

I like pulling the boats for the winter,less to worry about. The days you have to check it are usually the days you want to stay inside. Lots of guys end up in the water checking their boats so remember to leave yourself handholds and a way to get yourself out of the water if you fall in. In addition to the rocksalt or antifreeze I would make sure the batteries are charged and add a small heater or lightbulb. It's hard to visualize the freezing temps when it's still 60 degrees but remember how cold January can get and how hard it can snow and plan accordingly
Lots of people leave the boats in through the winter around here,as you know. There are also a couple that go down due to the weather. Being it's your first year with this boat you'll probably have more time on it this winter than I had on mine all summer.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 17th, '10, 16:04

Bob,

You must be referring to the mouth of the Columbia River at Cape Disappointment in Washington state. That's the home of the Motor Lifeboat Training School for the USCG, and they didn't name it Cape Disappointment for nothing!

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 17th, '10, 16:33

Pete,

Pull the plug if she's on land. A boat filling with water on land is a real possibility. It does happen. When you pull the plug, you don't need to worry. A 37' Bertram sank on land next to me a couple years ago. THey had no hull plug, and the bilge pump froze. It killed the battery. They never came to check on it. The water rose over the genset and halfway up the engines before they discovered it. Big repair bucks. Hence the benefit to checking on the boat regularly.

That being said I do not recommend pulling the plug if you are in the water...

Also, depending on your insurance company, you will need to pull it for a time in the winter. But you would likely know that.

Lastly, you may want to consider a bubbler for under the boat. I will do some checking but I got a hell of a deal on one a couple months ago. I will share the info.

I do like the light bulb in the bilge. Its a time proven and effective solution.

For those of you who do shrink wrap, here is a good idea for ventilation. I put a Nicro solar vent up at the top of my wrap. It runs all day and moves air out of the boat, and draws fresh in. I would like to think it cuts down the mildew...

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 17th, '10, 17:06

Also, I read earlier that you were having a stern cockpit cover made. If that will be there for the winter, I recommend two things.
First and most importantly, have your canvas guy put in a reinforced grometed center section into which you can insert a telescopic pole with a rubber butt on one end(deck) and a matching fitting to the gromet on the canvas end. This will act as a tent pole or support as you will find a heavy snowfall can put so much weight on the center of the fabric that the hold down snaps will pop or the fabric will tear causing a collapse and a cockpit filled with snow and ice.
Second- If you know which way you will enter the cockpit from your slip, I would recommend your putting in a zippered or velcro sealed door. The last thing you'll want to do with frozen fingers is unsnap and resnap canvas in the snow. Wax or lube all of them heavily before it gets real cold.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 17th, '10, 19:07

Thanks for all the tips guys. The village marina here has an ice breaking program. Which means they keep a channel clear to the bay which stops the marina from freezing. My insurance company is aware that the boat will be in the water all winter. I have other friends and neighbors that keep their boat there as well and all say it never freezes.

The idea of a pole and VELCRO access hatch are things I didn't think of. Also a way to reboard the boat if I fall in..

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 17th, '10, 19:19

damn!!! tommy you never miss a cue .thats it columbia river. coast guard training school . you guys check this out some day this is my 31 in the fire island inlet told to me by captree party boats.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 17th, '10, 20:55

Peter- I had my 31 for over 25 years before there was a Bertram31.com. You can't imagine what it was without having this site and the knowledge behind it! Had to figure out all these things on my own with lots of trial and error...and $$$$. Enjoy the input...and the boat. You'll never need another! Walter

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Nov 17th, '10, 21:30

PeterPalmieri wrote:Thanks for all the tips guys. The village marina here has an ice breaking program. Which means they keep a channel clear to the bay which stops the marina from freezing. My insurance company is aware that the boat will be in the water all winter. I have other friends and neighbors that keep their boat there as well and all say it never freezes.

The idea of a pole and VELCRO access hatch are things I didn't think of. Also a way to reboard the boat if I fall in..

Peter, I live on Sumpwams Creek, on the West Islip Road side. The town does a good job of keeping the creek flowing, basically Mark Roulard or one of the other local dock guys gets a contract to run up and down the creek in their tug boat. But between the pilings does often freeze. And every year poles get pulled up by ice.

So, if the town is okay with it, I would definitely use IceEaters, http://www.thepowerhouseinc.com/iceeater.asp . I put one in my double slip and it keeps it ice free when the entire creek is solid, and it will be. My parents are over on Carlls River (Peninsula Drive side) and we put three out there, one under the Blackfin on its lift, one under my HydraSport on its lift, and one in the open slip. They really work great (just check occasionally that they have not sucked up a plastic bag).

If you want help hanging one, maybe two, I will be glad to help. They are simple and really work great (thermostat controlled). Because the creek will freeze around your boat.

Ed's comment on a light bulb and Dug's antifreeze idea are really old school, which means they both work. I have been doing the same on various boats for over thirty-five years. And Ed is right about going in the water- don't try to go on the boat if you are alone, hand holds or not, that cold as a witch's tit in December water will kill you!

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 17th, '10, 21:44

Man, you guys must really love living up north to put up with those crazy cold winters that you get. We consider it a real treat here in NC to get the occasional 2-6" of snow for the kids to play in........but boats freezing in their slips; now that's some serious cold.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 17th, '10, 21:55

Pete

If you leave it in the water a bubble system is a must. Helps keep the water from freezing around the boat and ensures that the thru hulls don't freeze and crack. We use this system for dock pilings. Works great and believe it or not, it runs from about Jan 1 until the end of March for about $10 a month.

http://www.dockbubbler.com/

I tried the non toxic one year, only worked so/so.

I usually take a shop vac just before covering her up and suck the bilge dry.

To ensure it stays as dry as possible I use another little trick. I take a long towel and cut a thin strip out of it. Let one end hang out of the drain hole, the other end I stretch down the center of the bilge. Wicking action takes out the small puddles of water, as long as you get it going before the deep freeze.

Just don't use one of your wife's good towels.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Nov 18th, '10, 06:42

Problem is the town is pretty strict about what they'll let him put in the water and run off their electricity. But I know lot's of folks who leave boats in there and they are all pretty happy with doing so.

Russ Pagels · Post by **Russ Pagels** » Nov 18th, '10, 07:50

Tommy, the area that they are talking about is where I lived all my life, untill 2004. Thats when I moved to NC and don't have to do all that winter stuff. Raised in West Babylon, moved to West Islip, and retired to the land of cotton....Russ

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 18th, '10, 08:51

In regards to the winter slip i am going to inquire with the village further today. I know they do not have shore power at the docks on shore road. I will find out what my options are the marina is just about full every winter so they must have something in place to either run their own bubblers or provide me with power to run my own.

In regards to Bobs inlet moves i was inspired to pull up some of the coast guard training videos on you tube pretty cool stuff. A few years back i watch them do drills on the west bar at FI inlet.

I will update you all when i get some clarification from the village.

Pete

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 18th, '10, 13:42

Just spoke to the village they do not have access to electric at the dock but they assured me they keep it from freezing. I guess my only option would be a genrator to run the bubbler

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 18th, '10, 13:58

peter better yet we forget "bobs inlet moves" until your boat is totally prepared and bare in mind my boat has alot of strurctual changes/reinforcement as well as diesels . you can get yourself in a terrible situation whereby the stern is going faster than bow because bow is stuffed into a wave and boat will automaticlly go sideward either port or starboard whereby the boat will breach. best leave these stupid antics to phoenix and the captain who who actually rather catch bass with flyrod!!!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 18th, '10, 14:59

Thanks for the friendly tip bob. I have no plans of being a cowboy out there. I do currently get offshore regularly on other peoples boats and even then i have no problem baling out if the weather doesnt look great. That is especially dependent on the boat and captain who i am going with.

Even after the electric and running gear get updated ive got a starboard motor with 2200 hours. Probably wont leave the inlet until thats been rebuilt.

I should mention i had a 1998 23' robalo i bought new that i used to run as far as the bacardi and at that time was pretty daring. The sea has since taught me to be a bit more cautious.

Fly fishing aint much fun in big seas and heavy winds anyway.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 18th, '10, 16:53

Peter,

I have a cockpit cover as I too have teak decks. My cover has a bungee cord that runs in and out of it around the outer edge, and it goes over hoods screwed to the hull. It tensions the cover. I would never want to do one with screws or clips. No matter what you do the material will stretch. I can give you the # to my canvas shop, they have made 2 for me over the years and are thinking about design #3. You may not want them to do it, but you can press them for ideas if you want.

Custom Marine Canvas in Noank, CT. Ask for Katie, and the # is 860-572-9574.

Dug

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 18th, '10, 17:21

What are hoods screwed to the hull?

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Nov 18th, '10, 18:26

PeterPalmieri wrote:Just spoke to the village they do not have access to electric at the dock but they assured me they keep it from freezing. I guess my only option would be a genrator to run the bubbler

Pete- we are all throwing out suggestions, but in reality your boat will do great there. Plus I won't mind looking across at her.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 18th, '10, 21:05

Let's hope for a mild winter and I'll get plenty of work done and little stress.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 20th, '10, 21:20

I'm not a fighting chair kind of guy but I understand these Rockaway Fighting Chairs have some value. It certainly is heavy, here are some pictures, anyone have more info in the value on these?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 20th, '10, 22:20

It's a real classic and looks great on that nice teak deck. You could get something snazzier, but in my opinion is of the same genre of the boat. Strong as hell and with the foot pedestal assembled could take a Giant. If you decide to keep it, keep your eyes open for another rod holder for the other side. Dollar value is tough. I'd guess from giveaway to about $500 bucks. In some minds, priceless.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 21st, '10, 06:15

think harv has one or two floating around some where, harv you out there, everything ok

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Nov 21st, '10, 21:45

Peter,

Your teak deck and trim looks great!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 21st, '10, 22:04

Can you believe those decks were DIY work from a previous owner. They look really great!

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 22nd, '10, 08:54

Peter, sorry! Hooks, not hoods! LOL! My bad...

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 23rd, '10, 11:35

Quick question. I need to change the hailing port on my transom. The boat will be in my village slip starting this weekend. I have no access to power. Anybody know of a local guy who can come and remove the old hailing port and put on a new one?

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 23rd, '10, 11:46

you should do this on the hard

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 23rd, '10, 12:31

I would like to and its simple enough to do myself. Since the boat wont be hauled until march i wont be compliant with the USCG documentation.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 23rd, '10, 13:20

Since the boat wont be hauled until march i wont be compliant with the USCG documentation.

Believe me, for the course of the winter they could care less...

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 23rd, '10, 13:20

Not a thing that can/or should be done in the water. If your boat isn't painted and the lettering is in vinyl, you can remove it gently with a heat gun (but you don't have electricity). Oven cleaner will make it bubble off, but you will need water, and you're in as much a risk for a pollution ticket as you would be for non-compliance. I am pretty sure that at this time of the year, no one is going to come after you for non-compliance. Worst case scenario, tape a piece of opaque vinyl over it with your new port lettered in magic marker till the Spring.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 23rd, '10, 14:57

I am having a cockpit cover made so the deck will not be exposed to the elements over the winter. Should i be cleaning and treating the deck before the winter or can i leave it until the spring?

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Nov 23rd, '10, 15:13

leave it till spring

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Nov 27th, '10, 17:48

Took the boat out today for a good two hour run in some pretty nasty weather. I didnt leave the inlet but did go out to the inlet. Nobody was out today. Took a good cruise in the bay and was able to get some experience with a head sea, following and quarter in some decent 3s. In a short chop.

The boat handles even better then i hoped.

Pete

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 27th, '10, 18:33

You won't find better in a quartering or following sea no matter what sized boat.

randall · Post by **randall** » Nov 28th, '10, 09:35

i seatrialed my 25 on a really nasty day. thunderstorms and a 3-4 foot cross chop. great sales tool. i was smitten.

captbone · Post by **captbone** » Nov 28th, '10, 10:24

I was your boat on Shore Rd and it looked great as I was driving down to the docks. Congrads. It is in amazing condition.

bertram31.com

New Member / New Boat

Who is online