Engines for Hueso and odd things happen

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Sep 20th, '10, 17:48

After years putting my mark on twin Yanmar 315's to repower my B31, here comes my brother in law and smacks me in the face offering two Steyr engines for $25K from a South American Distributor, which is his client. Catch 22: If someone wants to see the engines in PR and how it moves a 31 I need to be there to show.

Decisions, decisions. No dealer in Puerto Rico for Styer, thus, no parts or mechanics for that matter. Some say a diesel engine is a diesel engine, but that dog has bit me before. I do not want to pay to educate a mechanic. Have read some threads here that Detroit Diesel had parts in the US. Can someone tell me what's the story with Styer and U.S.A. at this point?

As to the 315 v. Styer decision - the yannies are winning.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Sep 20th, '10, 17:53

Bruce is your guy on this. He is super familiar with both. Steyer has been getting very good grades. A lot would have to do with the condition and hours of your Yanmars. Ever think of buying another Bertram to put them in?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 20th, '10, 18:09

Counsellor.....no, No, & NO. Stick with tried & true. Your gut is right, just wait for the right moment when the moon, stars, and checkbook align, and do it correctly. The money's in the iron.....

UV

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Sep 20th, '10, 19:03

25K! I suppose if you can get the yanmars for a lot less and you have someone to service them. I am going on year 5 with oil changes and impellers. I have a service manual if I need it but so far so good. I made the leap and do not regret it. Do your homework.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Sep 20th, '10, 20:16

I would go with the engines that can be serviced and supported with local talent and local parts inventory.....you and I both know that sooner or later something is gonna happen that will require parts and labor......and the time that it will happen is the evening before a major fishing event.......

Service and support are KING......

hb

scot · Post by **scot** » Sep 20th, '10, 22:35

Have read some threads here that Detroit Diesel had parts in the US.

Yes parts are everywhere in the world and cheap. Most mechanics can work on them. Because they have liners, they can basically be rebuilt forever, that said:

I say NO to putting them in your boat and I am the lone resident Detroit fan!

The 453N (140hp) is the engine many 31's ended up with and they just don't have enough ponies to make many people happy, and to make matters worse they were one of the loudest Detroit series produced, and maybe the No.1 oil leaker that Detroit built. Hence the reputation among Bertram 31/Detroit owners is not the best. Some had the 6V53 twin turbo (400 hp). But still a 53 series.

All the 53 series Detroits were/are really good engines but they run at 2400-2800 rpm and the noise level of a 2 stroke turning 2800 is the same as a 4 cycle diesel turning 5,600 rpm! ( 2x combustion events) ........Ear splitting.

Detroits need to run at 1850- 2350 rpm and the exhaust needs to be going through a turbo to tame the sound (some what). Some of the best engines they produced were the 71 series, both inline and V configuration. But they are too tall for the Bertrams low profile hull & boxes.

The moral of the story is just say "NO" on the Detroit-Bertram engines options. The series (471 300hp turbo inline) that you would be satisfied with ain't gonna fit.

Good luck sorting out the others mfgs.

RAWicklund · Post by **RAWicklund** » Sep 21st, '10, 06:58

Damn Hueso.... 25K from the dealer?? I thought I was the king of the great deals....

I just picked up 2 brand new 256 Steyrs for the same price (25K) I contacted Bruce for a quick opinion prior to pulling the pin and got good feedback. I also called dealers and distributors for some more info, but it always sucks getting advise from a salesman.
Dist. claims a zillion $$ in parts inventory and a strong dealer network.

They have a great website with invaluble amounts of info

http://www.steyr-motors.com/products/products.htm
A website doesn't push a boat granted, but I feel it shows a great commitment to quality and support.
I emailed a Q on gear selection to the support staff and got an answer back within 12 hrs with documentation and page references in their spare parts and install manuals (all free literature) Great stuff.
I'm a cheap bastard...... but I think I just got a cadillac of a deal.
Keep us posted
Ray

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 21st, '10, 07:59

Hueso, dads got a pair in his boat. Overall very happy with them. Lots of benefits.

Down side is even though he can get parts in next day via UPS and has...it's a pain. A few calls to verify issue, a few calls to get parts ordered and then the anticipation waiting for the Red Label shipment and sometimes a follow up call to get support with the install.
So far everything has been a somewhat minor issue, but until you know the procedure and where everything is located its a pain.

Service is available, however it's not exactly local, its a 4 hour drive for service tech. Dad had them come in earlier this year, for a minor issue / service call, the local tech came in and factory tech came in from Virginia to "train" the local tech... Seems every-time he calls for parts and support the local dealer network has shifted. Not a big issue as it's just a phone call followed by shipping in parts...doesn't really matter where they are...just difficult to build a relationship with a dealer.

Just spoke with him...said all the local dealerships in our area were pulled and replaced by Steyr people...not sure what that means but he hasn't been pleased with the new service /tech support setup so far...

Point being...we are in a pretty populated area, New York City, and service is slim. I guess you could get your local Diesel Mechanic to work on them with phone support and manuals...but that is less then ideal.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sep 21st, '10, 09:22

First impression? If it sounds too good . . .
Also a past post suggested to another engine hunter that service and parts availability was paramount. Still holds true.
Listen to Uncle Vic.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 21st, '10, 10:18

Just an added thought---the savings you'll realize you may later lose if you ever sell your B31. From watching B31s over the years, its seems to me that the Cummins powered boats sell well, Yanmar powered boats almost as well, and then you have the rest. But what do I know, I run a gasser....and really like my 454s.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sep 21st, '10, 16:05

If a boat fails to sell because of a brand of engine that is a good engine its usualy because the buyer and/or broker are ignorant.

ALL engine companies have had issues. ALL of them.

Based of shear numbers, some percentage out better than others.

Funny how many Americans drive euro built cars with euro built engines, or Asian cars with Asian engines but will poo poo marine engines.

The bottom line is servicability and parts for your area.

Steyr isn't going anywhere soon. The engine design dates back to the 20's.

While they are computer controlled, even with a computer failure they can still be started and ran home.

Can't say that for any of the usual suspects of engine makers.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 21st, '10, 20:37

Bruce wrote:If a boat fails to sell because of a brand of engine that is a good engine its usualy because the buyer and/or broker are ignorant.

With all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, perception becomes reality. Regardless of reality, if a product has a less than stellar reputation, or has no reputation, the basic (maybe ignorant) buyer is going to stay away, and the educated buyer is going to try to buy at a discount. I don't know anything about Sterys except that they seem to have a pretty good rep on this board, and its great to see another manufacturer in the marine game--competition is a good thing. I'd love a pair.

And, from my limited understanding, there are some pretty good motors that have failed in the marine market because of poor adaption to the marine market--like the BMW straight 6.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Sep 21st, '10, 21:03

All valid points, especially with parts and support. I spent a great deal of time researching before I made the purchase. What I found was, just as Bruce said, they are not a new company nor is the concept of the Mono block new. The more I read the more I realized I was ignorant because at one time the only thing I ever wanted was a pair of Yanmars in my boat. Unless I have read bogus literature, "most" of the power plants in life boats are Steyrs. The SOLAS approved ones of course. That tells me something. I went with my gut instinct and took a chance with something NONE of my buddies had. So far it has paid off. A day will come when I am in need of a repair for sure. Heck, I am almost out of warranty and I could honestly care less. The engines are far more mainstream than we think......just not in this particular realm. Just be open minded.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Sep 21st, '10, 21:07

By the way no negativity towards Yanmar, I was ignorant because I did not know all of my choices!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 21st, '10, 21:28

Huesso

One other point to consider, no matter how great the engine, how will it push the 31. We know the 250 Cummins and the 240 Yanmar will push it along at cruise around 23 to 24 knots. Will the Steyrs do that and can you live with that?

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Sep 22nd, '10, 13:07

First quote without negotiations with the local distributor for the 315 Yannies: $24,000 a piece. Includes panel, transmission and shipping. Did not ask which trans. My bad.

What do the Faithful know about base price up there. Does $24,000 for each engine sounds right?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 22nd, '10, 17:19

Tony Meola wrote:Huesso

One other point to consider, no matter how great the engine, how will it push the 31. We know the 250 Cummins and the 240 Yanmar will push it along at cruise around 23 to 24 knots. Will the Steyrs do that and can you live with that?

I cannot talk about how the Steyr will push a 31...

But my dad had 440's in his 28 Hatteras and put in a pair of the 212HP Steyrs. Boat moves along real well, he runs it 20-22 knots or so (much slower then I would @ I believe 31-3200rpm, motor run up to 4200, but he gets over 2 MPG...he says 2.5.

He used to cruise 20knots with the 440's @ just under 1mpg. Pretty similar to the performance of my 31. She's only 28' but she's a heavy boat. If he goosed it up to 3400 he'd be doing his 23-24knots and remember he has the older 216 HP version, biggest they made at the time.

I'd drop a pair of Steyrs in my boat in a heartbeat, especially the 256hp ones...wishy washy service and having to order parts wouldn't bother me. I make it a point to express all the bad things, as your looking, and that is the only bad thing about the engines I can say...aside from they are light...real light. If you want that mass of big ol'heavy diesels...this is not the motor for you.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Sep 22nd, '10, 23:34

ok not to high jack the thread but will a 31 perform ok with 250 4 cylinder cummings

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Sep 23rd, '10, 02:00

Huesso,
There's a charter boatin my neighborhood, 32 Luhrs, that's been running the 230 something hp for about 7 years now. Absoluteley trouble free. No problems whatsoever. I tried to get a deal on the Steirs a few years ago, but, to no availe. They wanted full ticket price...didn't make sense to me, as there were only a couple of them out there in my area. If it were me, I'd try them in a heartbeat if the price was right..the Yanmar dealer is also a dealer for Steir. Matt,
The Yanmar 170's that I used to have were plenty for my light bahia, especially here in Tx...20 knt cruise...I'm a dumn ass for selling them.
Now, I'll be able to fly for 5 miles to the end of the jetties, with the 315's, and then slow down to the usual 17 or 18 knts that we do in our Bertrams on most days. From what I've learned, the seas on the East coast, West coast, and, the Gulf of Mx are totally different..When's the last time that you could run 38 knts, like Bob, in Tx waters in a 31? It's different in our neck of the woods.
I'm drunk, and going to bed.
Goodnight.

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Sep 23rd, '10, 09:37

WalterK:

Yanmars will be new. I have considered the option of buying another B31 if the damn marina rent wasn't so high. It would be the perfect setup, one in the west and one in the east and I will have the island covered for fishing all year long. To dream doesn't kill.

Scot:

What I meant by writting that I read some threads of Detroit Diesel having parts I was referring to Styer parts. But anyways, thanks for the advice. Many B31 ran those down here in the 80's. Mustard Yellow, huge, loud, smoky, oily, but reliable.....oooopss! sorry, those were the Caterpillars.

micky · Post by **micky** » Sep 23rd, '10, 11:10

Hueso, why not the Yanmar 260 and cut the tower hahaha?? You know that here in PR you won't take advantage of all that hp (315) because of the sea conditions.
PS: I posted something in your facebook.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Sep 23rd, '10, 13:36

Damn John you type ok for a drunk guy who cant see haha
oh i hear ya lound an clear our water is way different. I dont want a 38knt wot
right now my boat runs 36mph wot and i wasnt geting full RPM so i know my props are off. so if 250s would push her to that i would be happy.

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Sep 23rd, '10, 14:28

Micky:

BMW's......no way Jose.

Matt:

That's true......nice typing under the influence.....

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 23rd, '10, 21:30

John

Trust me only Bob will run at that spead up here in the Northeast.

Just ask JP.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Sep 23rd, '10, 22:16

Tony,
38 knots? Not around here...I've got a pretty good set of teeth, and I'd like to keep them.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 23rd, '10, 22:33

harry , dug , john there ganging up on me please tell them at 36 and above the boat is riding on the inner stakes and does not rattle your teeth!ok john cranston next year you drive----i mean that!!!! just use "the force".dug try to explain the differant feel of a 31 bertram with the windshield done up on waves, apparently whatever i say people are set in there ways along with this wet boat nonsense.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 23rd, '10, 22:37

Bob

If you let John run the Phoenix, it will be like a remake of the scene from scent of a woman when Pacino speeds through the streets of NYonly yours will be on the ocean.

Not ganging up on you, just that it is tough running at that speed in a heavy sea.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Sep 23rd, '10, 22:41

tony honest it would not bother me. people drive like that here on a warm sunday. nobody paying attention just cross someone`s bow like in a parking lot of a mall the day before school year starts .

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Sep 23rd, '10, 23:10

i am not saying going fast aint fun, not sayin i dont want to go fast,i mean i have a boat twin big block fords i dont know anything that has twin big blocks that isnt fast...but I can do 55+ in my bay boat if need be, and if i really want to bust my teeth out i will buy a contender or some other center console. Just not my thing.. I already live too much of a go fast rat race life , when i get on the water i want to enjoy my cruise to the snapper hole for my 2 snapper :)

and Hueso i am sorry for high jacking your post

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Sep 23rd, '10, 23:47

Bob wrote:harry , dug , john there ganging up on me please tell them at 36 and above the boat is riding on the inner stakes and does not rattle your teeth!

The boat handled incredably well......like I have said before......It felt like driving a 31 foot jet ski....great acceleration, great steering response, no raddle and quiet......

Looking forward to "Next Year"

hb

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Sep 24th, '10, 00:24

Bob,
I was in no way making a poke at you...too much respect for you guys... Mike O., yes...he goes for the throat...Yes, Coolbreeze, quit hyjacking the thread...take me flounder fishing instead. Bob, it's just that, it's like a washing machine over here, and most days, you're cruising under 20 knots, unless, you want to get the hell pounded out of you. When we left Greenport, on Ed's 28,the interval between waves were alot longer than we usually have. I think that we ran about 23 knots on the outside all of the way home. Don't under estimate the blind guy's capabilities as far as running a boat...I can run into things just as well as the rest of you.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Sep 24th, '10, 01:03

lets go!

bertram31.com

Engines for Hueso and odd things happen

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