"Bertram committee" ruined a good hull???

nestorpr · Post by **nestorpr** » Sep 6th, '10, 22:59

I was reading a report on Formula boats on Boattest.com and the author said the following:

"Ever see a boat that looks like it was designed by a committee? We have, and in every case it was actually designed by one. The Bertram 31 is a classic example of how a committee can ruin a good hull. Formula boats simply do not have that problem."

Anyone knows what he's referring to? Just curious, I think the B31 is one of the best boats ever designed, although we all know it did have a few drawbacks, after all nothing is perfect.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 7th, '10, 06:04

maybe they meant it was a great boat and the committee killed it?

randall · Post by **randall** » Sep 7th, '10, 08:37

it was designed by a committee of one....ray hunt.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:02

Here are a couple built by the design genius at Formula.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... etails.jsp

The 27 is almost a s prety as the 26:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... etails.jsp

Check out the sleek lines on the 29:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... etails.jsp

JR

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:03

The answer lies in the answer to this question (personal asthetics aside)..

In a blow which would you rather be in, a Bertram 31 or a Formula boat of similar size?

Case closed.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:07

LOL Jack!! I didn't even realize how ugly they were until you posted that!! I think we have a case of boat jealousy going on here!!

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:13

Lets take him out in bad weather. God they're ugly. If he thinks they're nice, wonder what his wife looks like.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:19

I'm thinking in those circles they think the 31 is a "Go Fast" that was turned into a fishing boat.

To that end they are somewhat right....not sure who or how that decision came to be myself. I read it and all...but I still scratch my head...glad about the decision and all...but still makes me wonder. The boat was a huge turning point in offshore racing, several books I have on offshore racing all give credit to the 31 Ray Hunt design and how they dominated the racing circuit till others copied the idea and caught up...Bertram makes this huge presence in the racing arena...and then they make the worlds best fishing and cruising boats from the hull design...sounds like a committee decision. Although I think the racing was more about proving the boat and selling to the broader purchasing base.

Then again what the hell do I know...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:23

I just took a look at those pictures...those are Bubble boats...they made some real nice ones as well. Even Bertram is making a Clorox boat now...the 36...not a very pretty boat in my eyes.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:30

author said the following: yada, yada...

Ain't anyway to fix stupid.

My brother-in-law has a new, (2007), 40' Formula that he keeps on Lake Travis, west of Austin. Reasonably good looking boat, fits his needs and wants, he doesn't care the first thing about fishing, and puts about 20 hrs a month on it. All the bells and whistles. Makes him happy, so that's all that counts.

But, offshore boat? No way. Just a high dollar Searay...

Said author obviously doesn't know the difference between apples and oranges.

Joseph Fikentscher · Post by **Joseph Fikentscher** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:35

The 23' center console by formula was a great boat. I had one for years. 1973-1992. The hull was built heavy, deep V all the way back, soft ride.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:44

He was probably referring to Bertram's bonehead decision to abandon the 31 in favor of replacing it with the Hyena Boat (the 28)....of which they sold a ton, but still look today like a hyena dragging its butt on the ground.....and are of limited value on the used market as opposed to the 31. I'm fond of a couple of Hyena Boats tho, like Eddy's Gotta Go, one of the last and with her big diesels, a very nice boat....for a hyena boat.

This past weekend I took a bunch of camp neighbors to the Prop Stop in AJ and marveled at the proliferation of Clorox Bottle boats.....some so ugly they'd not be worth the 50 cents it would take to sink 'em. On the other hand, AJ drew a crowd of admirers as usual.

Respectfully,

UV

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 7th, '10, 09:51

I still think they mean the people at Bertram killed the boat meaning they stopped making them?

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 7th, '10, 10:21

Vicroy wrote:He was probably referring to Bertram's bonehead decision to abandon the 31 in favor of replacing it with the Hyena Boat (the 28)....of which they sold a ton, but still look today like a hyena dragging its butt on the ground.....and are of limited value on the used market as opposed to the 31. I'm fond of a couple of Hyena Boats tho, like Eddy's Gotta Go, one of the last and with her big diesels, a very nice boat....for a hyena boat.

This past weekend I took a bunch of camp neighbors to the Prop Stop in AJ and marveled at the proliferation of Clorox Bottle boats.....some so ugly they'd not be worth the 50 cents it would take to sink 'em. On the other hand, AJ drew a crowd of admirers as usual.

Respectfully,

UV

Or the Bertram 30 that was supposed to be the B31 replacement. Whatever--to each his own.

The Formula 233 was/is a great boat. My Dad still has his 1967 233. After leaving the Greenport Rend., he turned to me and said one of the biggest mistakes he made was not buying a Bertram 25. As much as I like Bertrams, I told him that his Formula 233--which has served him and our family faithfully for 43 years, can't ever be considered a mistake.

I had the same thing happen this weekend as UV when we took the B31 over to Annapolis. A 41 year old boat can still alot of attention. Typed on the bottom of my fuel receipt was "Nice Bertram." I get alot of nice comments on my 42 year old B20 also.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Sep 7th, '10, 11:36

I pulled into Montauk Marine Basin for fuel last week in the midst of a dock full of bigger than me boats. As I was fueling I overheard a total stranger explaining to his well endowed girlfriend/wife that "this boat is the best boat ever built!". Impressed the hell out of my guests in my cockpit. I just smiled.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Sep 7th, '10, 11:47

I of course picked the ugliest Formula's for humor's sake. Here's a 1979 23 Formula that looks pretty nice and if he gets near the asking price, seems to have held it's value:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 10664&url=

With some exceptions, it seems like older boats, houses,cars etc... were built with much more attention to detail, craftsmanship and pride, that we do not see much of today. Now it's more about "lets see how fast we can make em, how many we can sell and how much quick money we can make." Thank God I live in a house that was built in 1880 and drive a 31 Bertram. (I gotta admit I sometimes curse this old house when I'm dealing with plumbing and electrical issues)

JR

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 7th, '10, 12:16

as far as new clorox bottles go Formula are one of the best, very well made and nicely finished.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Sep 7th, '10, 13:38

Im glad people dont say about my Bertram "as far as new clorox bottles go Bertrams are one of the best"

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Sep 7th, '10, 13:55

I agree with John; I think the comment refers to how the Bertram design team came up with the Bertram 30 as a replacement for the venerable 31 when they retired it from the line. Even the folks at Formula recognize (and somewhat copied) the genius of the Ray Hunt Bertram 31.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sep 7th, '10, 17:28

I know, lets invite this journalistic wizard to come here and expand on his statement rather than speculate.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Sep 7th, '10, 19:47

Bruce wrote:I know, lets invite this journalistic wizard to come here and expand on his statement rather than speculate.

Geez--I thought that was what the internet was for....

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Sep 8th, '10, 07:07

I know it is a bit heretical in this thread, but to be honest, I know Formula builds a heck of a boat. The fit and finish is top shelf, the gelcoat is beautiful, and all the fittings are good stainless steel. Where many builders of the same ilk use extruded aluminum, Formula uses stainless. Just look at the windshield frames.

They have built some uglies, but yes, so has Bertram. Formula has been around a long time, is a family owned business (the Porter family) and builds a very good boat.

Maybe not to the liking to taste of all here, but thats why most of us don't own one. It is a hell of a lot better than your average sea ray. And they make a beautiful cigarette style boat. They hold up, still look good after 10 years plus, and actually get re-powered, vs. landing on the scrap heap.

One guy posted something that was clearly predjudiced (oh like we never do that! :)) and maybe a bit wrong.

But I have no problem with Formula boats. Well built, tough, good materials.

Dug

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Sep 8th, '10, 18:54

John F. wrote: Geez--I thought that was what the internet was for....

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Sep 8th, '10, 20:14

Well said Dug,

They age well and are over built, top quality hardware. You can call them and get paint codes for a 15 year old Formula and it will actually be CORRECT! ( unlike Donzi )

Obviously it is not the choice of most of the board, but different strokes for different folks.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Sep 9th, '10, 08:22

Come on now...the ones shown by Jackryan, of the Bubble Boat style are butt ugly. especially when you add the Camper Top canvas. I'll say that to the new Bertram 36...not my style of boat. May be quality...but Ugggly... Butt Ugly to be exact.

They did and probably still make some nice boats...great to know they are quality builds as well.
An old buddy of mine ran his 26' Offshore in less then admiral conditions on a regular basis and always got back...he loved it and he knew and knows boats, after all his dad had a Bertram, a 31 Bahia Mar...

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Sep 13th, '10, 11:30

Hyena Boat?

bertram31.com

"Bertram committee" ruined a good hull???

"Bertram committee" ruined a good hull???

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