Cost of Aluminum tank.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 11th, '10, 22:03

I am not supposed to ask- what it costs. I can't afford it. What is a good source for a new fuel tank?
I may have to replace the old tank in a '61 SF. I will also need the foam and coating that I read about here on the site, new fittings for "Diesel Ready" and whatever else it takes. Anybody have experience with a vendor here in South Florida?
I am currently considering looking at two boats. A '61 31SF, and a '62SF. Both boats have been altered by removing the lower helm and adding a stand up head. The '61SF in Miami has brand new 454's in it with less than 20 hours. The pompano boat has the new fuel tank but older engines with recently rebuilt heads and lifters. It seems that the Miami boat would be a better choice, but then I need an aluminum tank.

What is the chance/cost of going with older engines that have a tank, chancing that the engines will be decent VS. the knowing/cost that the tank is going to be replaced but the engines are brand new? Assuming everything else is equal.

This sounds like it needs a survey to really find out. What are your thoughts?

Oh and by the way, is a bigger tank in order for that trip to the Bahamas? what is a ball-park price on parts for a tank replacement?

You know I had to ask.

John Ritchie

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jun 11th, '10, 22:23

Tank is about $2K. The "while your in there" can be the issue. When I did mine, I replaced the deck supports, bulkhead aft of the motors and small bulkhead aft of tank, and fuel lines, etc. Tank is cheaper than motors, but 454s taken care of can last a loooooooong time.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 11th, '10, 23:55

Thanks John F.

I like the "While your in there" phrase. :-D

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Jun 12th, '10, 07:19

geography plays a role in the cost of the tank, and how you have it made such as how many brackets

A 230 gallon tank on average is about $2300-$2400. I PAY $2400 and do not mark it up to my customers because I am coating the tank and installing it, I have it made with 7 large braced brackets on it. A 190 gallon tank would be closer to the $2000.

It is rather large so if you find a source a little cheaper that is not local factor in the freight charges

Additional parts I can think off the top of my head are neoprene for the tank to sit on, if you go aviation style hoses they are pricey- last winter I had 2 sets made were close to $300 a set. Fill and vent hose, some wiring.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 13th, '10, 17:23

Raybo,

It sounds like you have done a few tank replacements. The brackets you mentioned, do they attach to tank and the stringers? Are they used to prevent movement of the tank? I had pictured the foam more or less, locking the tank in place. Perhaps you don't use the foam but use the neoprene.

Since the tank is in the V-of the boat. What allows water to pass by the tank. Is there a channel that allows the water, fore and under tank, to drain aft. Does that neoprene completely stop the water?

Let's say I was passing by New York, would you sell and prep a tank, coating, fittings etc.. for pickup?

Thanks

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 13th, '10, 19:34

Tanks that can handle Ethanol are usually aluminum. I don't think foaming them in is recommended as air circulation around it helps slows down corrosion even if the tank is coated. Yes, water must move freely underneath it, so the shape on the bottom isn't normally a matching "V", but a flattened one. I would recommend removal of the old tank before ordering a new one for more accurate measurements. If your deck is a 3-piecer that is easily removable, you may be able to get away with just removing the center panel to take out the old tank (not always easy). If Bruce is going to look at your potential boat, have him take a look at the ease or difficulty of deck and tank removal/replacement as each one, even of the same model/make are not exactly the same. Purchase of a tank is one thing, removal and reinstallation is another when figuring costs.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Jun 13th, '10, 21:10

IT
I jsut bought my 260 gal 1/4" aluminum tank from custom marine fuel tanks in i think jupiter is was like 2200 shipped to texas. I dont know if anyone on the site as delt with him, but i am very happy, tank is exactly what i ordered, welds a perfect.
But Like John said, the while you are at it factor adds up, rudder boxes, hoses, grounding strap and the list goes on. The fuel line by aeroquip cost like 15 bucks a foot. I have had tank ready for a month but havent had time to get it in because i want to redo the aft bulk head.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 13th, '10, 23:23

Custom Marine Fuel Tanks is near by me and I can arrange pickup. Since they are a Custom Fab shop, they have the V tank and the Flat Bottom V tank, which they have list as a Belly Tank. The Custom Marine Fuel Tank website had a link entitled "How to install a Fuel tank" The link takes you to One of David Pascoe's Web pages
http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/fueltank.htm
I am not sure if this would be a preferred install method but it certainly explains what the enemy is of an Aluminum tank. Crevice Corrosion. Trapped moisture/water against the tank as well as poor air circulation disallowing natural evaporation and any moisture that is trapped.
If you are considering a tank install, it's good information.

I will be consulting Bruce.

Thanks for your comments Walter and Coolair.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Jun 14th, '10, 06:16

At the recommendation of the tank bulder (Patriot in NJ), I 5200ed neoprene strips to the bottom flat and v part of the tank. No foam. I also had 2 flanges welded to the top forward of the tank so it bolts into the bulkhead, and a couple of other flanges for lifting. I also had 3 pick-ups and 3 returns in case the boat ever gets converted to diesel. The builder also epoxy coated it--3 coats or something like that, and its 1/4". Every dimension, and placement for fill, returns, etc. are specified by you. Mine is a 230--I could've gotten a 250 in there, but decided against it. Once I had the tank area all ready for the tank, I made a plywood cross-section of the tank dimensions I thought would be best, and checked that everything fit right. It wound up great. Yeah, I know, still alot of stuff that needs to be done in there---next winter. Pic. should give you some idea.

Friends of ours had their 70th birthday party this past weekend. He mentioned that a few of the out of town guests wanted to go for a boat ride. I think we had about a dozen folks between 65 or so and 70 on her for a boat tour. Plenty of room in the cockpit/engine boxes, and they seemed to really enjoy themselves. The B31 works for just about everything. I have alot of scrubbing in front of me--whatever they were wearing weren't non-marking boat shoes.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 14th, '10, 08:25

John,
It would be foolish not to ask. On this forum there is no Dumb question, if you don't understand the answer, re-phase and ask again...or just say you don''t understand.

I paid $1500.00 for a 3/16" Alum Tank thru a friend. 2000 sounds about right. I applied two coats of Coal Tar Epoxy to the tank...did that myself and the stuff really stinks and you pretty much need to trawl it on...to me the worst part of the job. I did not intend to foam in place, but have it mounted on Poly strips that where mounted to base. After I put boat in water I was uneasy about how tank was supported and wound up foaming it in place... mostly just to fully support the load. I had started to add up the weight...divide by strips...then wondered if each strip was supporting the load equally and just said the hell with it and foamed it in. If I have to do again...I probably won't go that route.

If I had a choice between new motors or new tank...everything else being the same...I'd most likely go with new motors.

Older motors...if taken care of can last a good deal of time...then "if" and "only if" you have a good re-builder they can be rebuilt and the clock starts over again. I won't tell you how many hours I have on my 440's but lets say it's quite abit.

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Jun 14th, '10, 09:54

ITcookY wrote:Raybo,

It sounds like you have done a few tank replacements. The brackets you mentioned, do they attach to tank and the stringers? Are they used to prevent movement of the tank? I had pictured the foam more or less, locking the tank in place. Perhaps you don't use the foam but use the neoprene.

Since the tank is in the V-of the boat. What allows water to pass by the tank. Is there a channel that allows the water, fore and under tank, to drain aft. Does that neoprene completely stop the water?

Let's say I was passing by New York, would you sell and prep a tank, coating, fittings etc.. for pickup?

Thanks

The brackets attach to the stringers and the bulkhead. No foam.
The stock tank is bonded to a wood subfloor, this floor is not fully encapsulated in fiberglass so it will more then likely require replacement.

When you make the new subfloor, or if you re-use your existing one, drill drain holes in the floor to allow the water that will gather around the tank a place to exit otherwise it will pool up towards the bulkhead until you put the boat up on plane.

The bulkhead will more likely require replacement, it also was not fully glassed in and with the tank out of the boat now is the time to do it.

The neoprene is used as a cushion for the tank to sit on, you should place strips running forward and aft and allow some break points for the water that will sit around the tank to drain, if you run strips port to starboard you create a place for water to stand.

Lastly if you are in Florida I can guarantee you will find someone a lot cheaper then what we pay here on Long Island. I like to deal with my local guy because he comes to my shop and we make notes because we never seem to make a tank exactly as the original was, its a lot easier to point and write on the tank then to deal with phone calls and emails and hope the tank arrives in shipping in one piece.

For a tank as involved as that one I caution against shipping, god only knows what that tank might end up going through and being that it is my responsibility as the installer I don't take the chance- I would rather lose the job.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jun 14th, '10, 21:07

I was advised by my insurance agent to make sure the tank met CFR183.580 guidelines if I was going to consider insuring the boat. I'm doing a complete redo and will have considerable money invested . He also mentioned the liability issue if I considered chartering. Sunshine Marine Tanks,305 805 9898, met the qualifications, I took pictures so the surveyor had visual evidence if needed. Capt Pat has a good plan in his boatbuilding tips section.If your considering fish boxes which I did, I had the fuel fill, vent , 3 return fittings and ground lug fabbed similiar to the image John F shows and i opened up the opening in the new coosa board deck stringers where the various hoses enter so I could get my hand in there with a ratchet should I ever need in the future as I did not plan on installing an inspection hatch as had been previously factory installed[ I think} I have one large center hatch aft in addition to the fishbox hatches, and everthing is quite serviceable. Jeff at Master welding at Murrelles in Lantana will duplicate your tank quite inexpensively and very reliable . To give you idea what a new pr of gas engines, my fishin buddy just replaced his 270 Crusaders in an older express cruiser , pretty much plug and play and he paid the dude 35K plus for these 340 gasers installed

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 14th, '10, 23:38

Thanks for your help! I have a clearer picture now!

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jun 15th, '10, 07:14

One more thing, specify the size the size of the return fittings and pickups, diesels need larger, you can always reduce down, more difficult to go up in size , need to weld in additional ones, I found out the hard way, I didnt confirm the size upon acceptance, the diesel guys have the specs

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 15th, '10, 07:49

Marlin,

Do you remember which size is a good size for the Diesel Fittings an pickups?
Thanks for the Standard you mentioned and how it may effect the insurance.

Thanks John F for the picture showing the Tabs, to hold the tank in place.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 15th, '10, 08:12

which size is a good size for the Diesel Fittings an pickups?

Make all of your tank fuel fittings 3/8" & vent fitting 5/8". Even though the return lines may be smaller, just adapt down at the tank... Don't forget to add fittings for a genset.

3 pickups, 3 returns, 1 sender opening for fuel gauge, 1 vent forward corner.

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jun 15th, '10, 21:42

Pat, the cummins install sheet for qsb 330 calls for #8JIC37 for supply and return and Doc at Florida says that is 1/2 ". I had 3/8 and cummins didnt like that so we welded in 2 more at 1/2"?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 15th, '10, 22:08

Marlin,

Thanks for the update... Guess those QSBs are thirsty and cycle a lot of fuel.

In that case I'll amend my recomendation to make all fuel lines 1/2" and adapt down to whatever size is called for with a particular engine.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Jun 15th, '10, 22:41

ya i had all mine done in 1/2" and i am going to run -8 hose,
and that devatar is some bad ass stuff.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Jun 17th, '10, 08:56

Just checking my owners manual for my big block gas motors and it is calling for 1/2" fuel line---not sure what i have on the boat-need to check.

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Cost of Aluminum tank.

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