Shopping for a 31 -Is this a 31?

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 10th, '10, 13:12

It this actually a 31 bertram or is there a 30 model I am not familar with?

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1985- ... e-96888870

Thanks

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » Jun 10th, '10, 13:17

Not a 31, it is a 30 and has more in common with the 28 and 33 than the 31.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 10th, '10, 19:36

Wow, now you've done it.
More in common with a 33' sounds interesting. More in common with 28' not so. Well the description sounded good.

Thanks Rocket!

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jun 10th, '10, 21:23

The 30 was the boat that Bertram thought would replace the 31 ... the production run was shortlived. The 33 and 28 were big successes, the 30 kinda missed the mark.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 10th, '10, 22:13

The 31, 25 & 20 are the original Bertrams and were designed by naval architect Ray Hunt. The others are certainly Bertrams, but they used a different naval architect to design the boats. Alot of them were designed by a guy named Napier (sp?)

Once you get accustom to looking at them you can see the family resemblance of the original 3 Bertram designs.

IMHO, the difference with the Ray Hunt boats, besides the classic look, is the way the hull performs because of his design. The RHO (Ray Hunt originals) have a very rounded keel, a sharp breast hook and sharp pronouced strakes and protruding chines. The rounded keel, along with the strake & chine design, allows the boat to plane very easy, with less power. It also lets the boat stay on plane at slower speeds. All of the RHO design elements enhance lift.

Staying on plane at slow speed is one of the main reasons the boats are so revered offshore. If you can stay on plane while all the other boats are dropping off plane because of sea state, your ahead of the game. That's why you always hear stories about these boats cruising along nicely while the rest of the crowd is crawling. IMHO these hulls are about as comfortable of a boat in rough weather as you can find, for their size.

The 28, 33, and I assume that 30 (Napier hulls) have a much sharper keel and a longer breast hook. This actually results in a faster hull, but it requires more power to keep the hull on plane, they typically cannot plane as slow as the RHO boats and they tend to run stern down...because the sharper keel does not provide as much lift. The longer breast hook and sharper keel tends to slice the waves vs lifting up & over them. Of course a boat's weight plays a big factor when running into a head sea.

The plus of the Napier boats is that they listened to the public when they designed them. They are said to have more cabin space and are more comfortable to spend the weekend on. I have no experience with the 28, but I have been told they actually have more cabin space than a 31 (any confirmations guys?) I have heard that Bertram sold more 28's than any of their other designs. I have always liked the layout of the 28.

Hope that helps a little on some of the differences between various Bertram designs. There are plenty of guys on this board that know these boats better than I do, maybe some of them will chime in. For the most part they all are exceptional boats...but I'm bias.

Did I miss anything guys?

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 10th, '10, 23:40

Thanks Scot for that reply. I did not know they were not an RHO and everything else you explained. I am not sure what a Breast Hook is. I would imagine that it is the side view of the curvature and angle of the bow as it sweeps down and beneath the water line. A sharper angle, Is that correct? (I could not find Breast Hook in Chapman's Piloting and Seamanship)

The 28 does look nice to me. I see a few of them for sale in my area here I think to myself, what is the difference in those 3 feet? I see there are more factors to this than just the "Cabin Size" etc...the customer feed back you mentioned.

In regards to the trolling and fishing. Does the planing, with less power in an RHO design, make for better trolling speed or does this go so far as to depend in the type of fishing you are doing? When you troll, you may not be "on Plane" anyway. Better lift sounds like a better choice. I am more interested in fishing than the creature comforts.

Thanks again for your post.

John Ritchie

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 11th, '10, 07:50

side view of the curvature and angle of the bow as it sweeps down and beneath the water line

Correct. At least that is what part of the boat "I" was refering to.

Trolling is at idle, or near idle, so therefore it's a rock & roll issue. There has been alot of discussion on this board over the years about the 28 rolling more than the 31 or 25. Not many people install towers on 28's, I hear (on this board) it can be a spooky adventure being in a 28 tower....never been in one.

The difference in an RHO hull design would lend itself to a stabler boat at rest. The Napier hulls sharper keel and I believe the Vee is steeper as well, would not be as stable as a softer, more rounded keel. The RHO hulls also has the completely unique reverse knuckle chine, which would also add stability.

This is a shot of a 25's transom. The bottom form is nearly identical to the 31 or 20. You can see the rounded keel and the reverse chines.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » Jun 11th, '10, 08:36

Did anyone mention Hyena? If you're going to spend anywhere near $56,000 you're much better off going with the 31'. Better looking, better performing and when you are ready to sell, I think a 31 will sell much quicker due to the following of the 31. I'm guessing it had such a short production run because nobody bought them. When I look at the 30 next to the 31, it's hard to believe they were built by the same company. If you are dead set on a 30, here's one near you with 315 hp Yanmars and a generator for a couple grand less:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... id=2180188

Bertramp · Post by **Bertramp** » Jun 11th, '10, 10:30

At different points, I owned a 28 fbc and a 31 fbc ... interior space was pretty much the same. The extra 3' was cockpit. Personally, I would go a 28, 31 or 33 ... and pass on a 30, but that's my (humble ?) opinion.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 11th, '10, 11:10

I own a 31 and fished on a 28. I was impressed by the 28 and as I saw it, here were the tradeoffs. The 31 has a bigger cockpit, absolutely the easiest/quickest engine access (engine boxes act as seats, too), and rolls less when drifting. It is deemed a "classic" and reputed to "sound" better re offshore trolling/fish attraction. I found the 28 "drier" in rough water and crosswinds, the interior more spacious (not a lot), same goes for the bridge. It handled well, and 3 foot shorter means 3 foot less charges on dockage, hauling and storage etc. The 31 is (again, my opinion) more marketable re resale and more flexible re engine changes/options. They are both equals as a family boat. IMHO. Walter

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 12th, '10, 01:12

Scot, I didn't notice how rounded it really was until you pointed that out. Pictures and all, most helpful. Thanks

Jack Ryan, I did see the boat knowing that the price is at the very limit of my purse. I was more interested in figuring if that photo was taken at Indian Shores. She looks beautiful and spacious.
I think my choice has to be a '28 or '31. Thanks for your input.

Bertramp, thanks for your help as always. I agree.

Walterk, Resale is important, not that I should expect it, but giving yourself the advantage of a better chance is the smart move. I'm convinced.

NO '30 for me. not an RHO

Thanks again.

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Jun 12th, '10, 06:46

Had a 28 with small blocks for 12 years and my 31 now with 6bts for 3. The 28 is actually 2 feet shorter28.5 vs 30.5 . falls off plane much sooner than the 31 but I find the torque of the cummins allows the 31 to maintain 15kts in a chop-nice. the 28 is much more tender, just step on the gunnel of both and you'll see. I think the 31 rides better.Bridge is a little bigger but layout changes can help,I've got a rumble seat for the Admiral. Cabin size is a wash. The 28 may be alittle dryer but in a breeze both 'l get ya.Overall I liked my 28 and LOVE the 31. Bill

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 12th, '10, 19:05

Thanks for your input Bill.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jun 13th, '10, 17:17

The fundamental problem with the B28 is it looks like a hyena dragging its ass on the ground.

yo Fren'

UV

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 13th, '10, 17:26

That is FUNNY! I have found, that there usually is some truth, when humor is involved.

Thanks

cmccool · Post by **cmccool** » Jun 13th, '10, 19:22

Just when I get a little bit of confidence built up about walking down to my boat, the name calling starts again.

I don't think she's that bad!!

The best part is that the fish love her.

Cliff

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 13th, '10, 19:37

Now that IS pretty!

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 13th, '10, 23:32

:-D Yes that is pretty. Down right beautiful. Is that some flare there I see? Nice down riggers there. I can see why the fish like it. 8)

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 14th, '10, 10:37

Now that does look Sharp. Kinda like the 31 Express...but sleeker.

Cabin/Flybridge looked a little Gawky on the 30...but that evens it out...sits so much better in the water too.

Nice job...do the modifications yourself or bought her that way?

Sharp...real nice.

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Jun 14th, '10, 13:42

ITcooKy,

Here's a B31 if your really interested w/ Cummins 250/6bta, seeing how it can't be fished in Oil, you can PM me and I'll give more details. The boat is located in Pensacola, FL.

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ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 14th, '10, 20:00

Captain DQ. she is a beautiful.
This whole oil situation just makes me sick. Just when I finally get to the point where I can shop for a serious fishing boat, this crap threatens everything. I don't see enough apologies on the TV either. I want somebodies greedy head on the block. I can hear them now...do it for the shareholders, we can have a better 2nd quarter. Now how do the shareholders feel?

Most of the diesels are beyond my means, but who knows. Yes, would you send information about "Short Circuit" Captain DQ?

Regards,

John Ritchie

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 14th, '10, 20:07

She's really pretty, don't sell her just yet! I'm hoping you can be out chasing ling next season.

ITcookY · Post by **ITcookY** » Jun 14th, '10, 20:28

The PM Captain DQ, does not want to leave the Drafts Folder and be on it's merry way.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 14th, '10, 20:48

http://www.whitewaterboats.com/inventor ... ils&id=252#

Not sure if anyone has seen this one. It is up on Long Island. Gassers but she looks good.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 14th, '10, 22:25

That's a beautiful boat, it has whip struts??? I have never noticed whip struts on any 31. Interesting.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 15th, '10, 11:00

cmccool wrote:Just when I get a little bit of confidence built up about walking down to my boat, the name calling starts again.

I don't think she's that bad!!

The best part is that the fish love her.

Cliff

That is a good looking boat! I have never seen the express model like that except on the 31, but it suits the lines of your boat very well.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 15th, '10, 11:27

scot wrote:That's a beautiful boat, it has whip struts??? I have never noticed whip struts on any 31. Interesting.

I was so close to installing intermediate struts on mine it's not funny. Running gassers 1:1 with 96" 1-1/4 shafts...if everything is not dead on the boat rumbles. If the shaft was out more then .003 TIR forget about it...wheels could only be done by a few guys or you guessed it vibration...

I wound up changing Tranny ratio to 1.56:1 and no longer felt the need for Intermediates...

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