shut-off for fuel filters

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:00

Where should I locate shut-off valves on my fuel system.

I have racor 500fg filters and was not sure where to put shut-off valves. This is a new install. New tank, filters lines shutoffs......everything!

Thanks

Frank

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:21

Frank,

Bruce and I put the ball valves on the inlet side of the Racors, (plumbed hard). The exit side of the Racor already has an internal check valve. Valves at the tank aren't really necessary done this way.

Br,

Patrick

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:23

one just before filter one just after so you can change filters on the high seas if nessasary.

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:40

I agree with Bob.. But the 500 is not big enough... Especially nowadays
Wayne

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:44

i use 900 ma.

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Feb 19th, '10, 18:58

Thanks!
If I put one on both sides of the filter and on the tank that would be 6 shut-off valves.

I am running the 6bt's little brother and hopefully the 500 will do the job.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '10, 19:34

6 in total is correct . generally speaking we find out we have a bad check valve at the worst possible time---------zip----there goes the prime on the high seas well luckely the bertram 31 is a dry boat and never rocks so we will have no problem repriming right. i would put a shut off on each side so even with a bad (this is what usually goes bad on the filter housing) check valve you could change filter and get on your way.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 19th, '10, 21:59

Ok, I need some education here. If the racor is not below the tank but higher up, and you just need to remove the top, pop in a new filter then top off the filter, how would you get air in the line if you have a bad check valve?

Sorry for what may be an obvious question , but I am not seeing how air gets in the line.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 19th, '10, 22:13

it is not air tony it is fuel . you open the top and the fuel from the fuel injection pump line flows out the top of the filter becuse check valve has debrie behind ball seat.then line fill with air.not bad at the dock but a bitch at sea.your making with the wrenches over a hot engine.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 19th, '10, 23:20

Bob

Thanks, I got it. Now I understand.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 07:51

captain the valve at the tank outlet is a coast guard issue. like fuel fire on a ship.not maintenance issue.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 08:44

bob lico wrote:captain the valve at the tank outlet is a coast guard issue. like fuel fire on a ship.not maintenance issue.

Not quite true, Bob....

2008 CFR Title 33, volume 2 CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

PART 183--BOATS AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT

Â§ 183.568 Anti-siphon protection.
Each fuel line from the fuel tank to
the fuel inlet connection on the carburetor
must:
(a) Be above the level of the tank top;

---or---

(b) Have an anti-siphon device or an
electrically operated fuel stop valve:
(1) At the tank withdrawal fitting; or
(2) Installed so the line from the fuel
tank is above the top of the tank; or
(c) Provided that the fuel tank top is
below the level of the carburetor inlet,
be metallic fuel lines meeting the construction
requirements of Â§ 183.538 or
â€˜â€˜USCG Type A1â€™â€™ hose, with one or two
manual shutoff valves installed as follows:
(1) Directly at the fuel tank connection
arranged to be readily accessible
for operation from outside of the compartment,
and
(2) If the length of fuel line from the
tank outlet to the engine inlet is greater
than 12 feet, a manual shutoff valve
shall be installed at the fuel inlet connection
to the engine.
[CGD 74â€“209, 42 FR 5950, Jan. 31, 1977, as
amended by CGD 81â€“092, 48 FR 55737, Dec. 15,
1983; CGD 85â€“098, 52 FR 19729, May 27, 1987]

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 20th, '10, 09:01

captain you can see the intention was gas.(carburator) all diesel engines have electrical operated solonoid valves in order to shut down so before we get into any valves ,the cc requirements are meet with (b) but building a boat we run into # (1) for any fuel engine so the valves on a diesel put on the filters are for maintenace --------------us.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 20th, '10, 09:30

Item A states: Be above the level of the tank top

The next word is supplied by the USCG: OR

Since the fuel tank manifold on a Bertram, (all flavors 31' or less), is on top of the tank and below any filters, pumps, or carbs, technically no valves, of any kind, are required. The regulation is purely designed for anti-siphon reasons. Not whether or not there might be an inconvenient air bubble in the fuel line due to whatever reason, such as opening the top of a Racor or replacing a spin-on filter...

Now does it make sense to the individual boat owner to put valves whever he wants them? Of course it can. You can put a valve at every hose fitting if you want to.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Feb 21st, '10, 19:33

Frank - the Racor 500s are plenty big for the 4BTAs. I have run 500s on my 6BTA 250s for thousands of hours with no problems. And hard plumb the ball valves to the Racors like Patrick says...if you install the Algae X magnetic conditioners, hard plumb them as well into the intake side of the Racor and hard plumb the ball valve to it. Mine are tank valve-fuel line-ball valve-Algae X-Racor 500. No ball valve after the Racor and I've had no problems changing filter elements under way. Just turn off the ball valve, fill the filter body with fresh diesel, screw down the top - and don't forget to open the ball valve (dhhhhhh, me done that?) and go. "Cheating" and not filling the filter body to overflowing 'cause you are too lazy to dig the jug of fresh diesel outta the bilge works about 10% of the time...the other 90% involve the dreaded bleeding procedure on a hot engine.

Bigger aint's necessarily better on fuel filters. The enemy of good is better....

UV

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Feb 22nd, '10, 12:20

Thank you guys for the replies. I will plumb the shutoffs directly to the inlet and outlet sides of the filters. I will also install a shutoff at the top of the fuel tank at the fitting.

I guess it is necessary to mount the filters above the level of the top of the tank????

There is room to do that on my B28 since the engine compartment is higher thank the cockpit.

Frank

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Feb 22nd, '10, 12:38

I guess it is necessary to mount the filters above the level of the top of the tank?

Should be, but with all those ball valves, not an issue. Inside the engine space & as high as possible is my choice of locations. Convenience is the important...

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Feb 22nd, '10, 14:10

I mounted mine on the rear engine compartment bulkhead with ball valves on the tank side.

Eddy G.
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[img][img]http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee10 ... c01733.jpg[/img][/img]

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 23rd, '10, 09:15

frank this should help you.all fuel lines coming from tank should be indiviual runs from tank to engines or generator. like vic roy said all fuel lines go from tank to algae-x to flter to engine or generator. every fitting is hard piped (threaded) no clamps in fuel feed or return. here is tank valves.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 23rd, '10, 09:22

this is the 500 racor for generator . on this filter i used a water moisture alarm. you only need one on any one of the filters . i consider this very important for those who go offshore . water to a diesel is death!!! better you find out as soon as possible to take action.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Feb 24th, '10, 00:47

Are these the fuel hose yall are using, atleast the parker version of the aeroquip

Parker 221 FR

221 FR Transportion - Marine Fuel and Engine Hose
SAE J1527 Type A. Class I, USCG SAE J1942. Application: Gasoline, ethanol blends, diesel fuels, petroleum base hydraulic fluids and lubricating oils. Inner Tube: Synthetic rubber. Reinforcement: One braid steel wire. Cover: Synthetic rubber blue. Temp. Range: -4Â° F to +212Â° F.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 24th, '10, 10:55

we are fortunate to have a shop on the water that contructs" water taxis "for fire island transportation. the coast guard inspects and gives a bill of approval each year because it carries passengers much the same as 31 bertram with "6 pack " charter lic. the parker number you have there is correct for cc acceptance we use aeroquip fc332-10 rated 250psi .this is the blue pipe you see in bruce`s installation.barbed fittings are used for non-essentials salt water washdown,bait tank feed , fresh water, etc. the outside surface will crack in time and then leak with barb fittings and regular hose. no big deal on non- essentials ,just cut off 1" and redo but fuel-----------not cool man

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Feb 24th, '10, 23:10

Right
so the aero quip barbed fitting are ok, but the parker uses i guess a 2 piece fitting , there are so many freaking different hoses and #'s its confusing as hell, whats the difference in the aero quip 332 and 234

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 24th, '10, 23:41

the outside membrame of the parker is a smooth slick surface and the aeroquip is course almost like a cotton fabric texture . they both last a lifetime. the boss man here will not install any fuel pipe with barbed fitting. we had 4 boat fires in 10 years attributed to hose, and the police try to incriminate the gas jockey for cutting loose a burning boat and kicking it away from the dock.he save the marina from preventing the fire from getting to the gas pumps but scpd. did not look at it that way.coolair this is 2010 times have changed you either deal with fuel injection gasoline or fuel injection diesel making the return to tank with pressure the hose starts pissing gas at a hose barb connection at the tank return and you have a disaster situation .

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Feb 25th, '10, 16:08

Ya,
I would agree with you, I just realized thats what the 332 is. I think in an earlier post you had said use 332, or thats what you used, i dont rememver. well i believe teh parker will be my rought, 355 is over $7 a foot, so 234 will be higher than that.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Feb 25th, '10, 17:12

coolair just consider this fact while you mill over the price of threaded hose fittings; for 2008 --80 boats burned with 2 deaths and 51 injuries unfortunally most of those injuries are bad burns . this is the coast guard report for fuel system fires and ignition of vapors only .fuel system failure rates right behind sinking in claims. not a rosey picture . a few less dollars for beer money put into the fuel system is well spent.

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shut-off for fuel filters

shut-off for fuel filters

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