LED Running Lights?

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 10th, '10, 21:00

I remember this was discussed a while back but could not find it with a seach.

Does anyone have a source for good LED green/red running lights, and hopefully some experience with them too?

I'm sick of screwing around with my old lightbulb-style running lights that keep going out for various reasons. I don't even get a year out of the damn things without having to fix them.

Also - does anyone know if it's okay to put the red/green running lights on the sides of the flybridge hood, instead of on the bow? I figure they might stay dryer up there than on my pulpit.

Thanks

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 10th, '10, 21:26

Sean,

Perko, (believe it or not), actually makes a decent running LED light... Here they are on Buddy Boy:

Small, 2mile visability, straight 12vdc, no trick wiring or ballasts. Dump yours and relocate to the bridge sides.

Good to see you posting again...

Br,

Patrick

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Jan 10th, '10, 21:27

Been using LEDs for about 4 yrs now I think Perco is the best??
Had to replace a couple attco? so far..
They reflect big time if you dont install properly.. but nearly no draw at all
Wayne

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 10th, '10, 21:41

i took the original bertram chock apart. then fitted two clear led lamps one in port the other in starboard .drop the led wires to ceiling of anchor locker and w/p spice . good for my entire life and that of my son . led cluster good for 100,000 hours .about $ 17.00. i believe e-bay -boat parts-/lighting. i have led; anchor light,stern, navigation and interior lights all led . i leave on all night in canyon and shows less then 0.1 on amp gauge!!!

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Jan 10th, '10, 23:19

i have yet to venture that far forward on my boat so I dont know the bulb size but there are tons of replacement bulbs out there that just screw in where your original bulb goes and They only problem i have heard is if you use them on your car as a turn signal, they pull so little power they cause the flasher to flash real fast, as if you had a bad bulb.
for example
http://www.ledtronics.com/products/cat1.aspx?P=C0D6

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 11th, '10, 06:01

One problem with just replacing the bulb with an adapted LED cluster is that one of the original problems with bulbs isn't addressed. The weak link is the receptical and corrosion between the two.

The best and most reliable LED use will come only from sealed units, but expect to pay a higher price... The Perko 170 series, (on Buddy Boy), have a replacable bulb and go for around $35 - $40 each.

Two other good brands are Aqua Signal and Hella Marine. I'm using Aqua Signal series 31 on Hancock's boat, which are sealed units & mounted into the half tower. These units go for around $50 - $60 each.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 11th, '10, 09:22

We used 5w 12v halogen bulbs in the old chock fixture. Soldered the wires direct to the ends shrink tube the connections then set in high temp silicone and let dry.

3 years and counting vs. 2-3 trips on the old bayonette connectors. If you keep the front chock, build the bulbs to work under water cause thats where they are most of the time when its rough.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 11th, '10, 10:09

THANK for reminding me jp. with all the koi pond problems i really did not explain myself. i use the original bertram bow chock and put led bulbs in it with no sockets!!!!! these are one piece with 12" leads that go into anchor locker, where they are w/p spliced and they will work under water . myself ,my son or grandson will never see 100,000 hours on this boat.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jan 11th, '10, 10:56

Now if you're not one of those lucky enough to have the red and green lenses in your bow chock, what then?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 11th, '10, 11:06

mikey aqua signal makes a pretty close copy . i don`t have link right now but i will try to find it for you. incidently these leds are so bright next to the original bulbs they light up the whole bow at night .the anchor light on top of the radar on my boat was spoted 5 miles away in the canyon when i called in a friend on a 40' post . " bob that son of a bitch is brighter then the north star out there"

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 11th, '10, 11:36

Bob: i want to do it! Do you have a bulb # and source? Most LED bulbs I see shine out the end, not the side like you need for a bowlight.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 11th, '10, 11:46

Rawleigh...

There are all configurations shown in the West catalog.. flat, vertical, and all shapes to pretty much replace the incadescent bulbs you already have. They are just very expensive, INMO.

I bought a set of Aqua Signal Series 40 lights with incadescent bulbs at a good discount last year at West. Apparently they were clearing the inventory of them. I looked at all the LED lights and decided they were too expensive. LED Replacement bulbs were in the $30 to $40 range, but I suspect in a year or two the prices will come down to a reasonable level. When they do I will install them and seal the light fixtures if I think it is necessary. The Series 40 bulbs are mounted in sockets that can be removed from the case by unscrewing a threaded ring on the bottom of the case. The wire enters through a compressed rubber grommet in the center of the piece that drops down after the ring is removed. Very easy to seal at a later date.

The combined green/red lens in my bow fixture is quite faded, and will probably be covered if I ever install some type of bow roller for my anchor, so I am going to mount the side lights on the sides of the flybridge, away from the wet bow.

After spending some time online checking out LEDs I have some concerns about them. They are not all created equal. Apparently there are some manufacturers who sell replacements that are not as robust or long lived as some others. One thing I would check before I replace any incadescent bulbs is are the LEDs of the same "power", ie: do they meet the Coast Guard regs for visible distance. Maybe I am paranoid, but you could be running your boat at night and have some speedboat bozo run into you and later say he didn't see you, even if you had your lights on. His lawyer finds that you had replacement LEDs that were not visible for the distances required in the regs, and you are screwed.

PS: The only reason I am paranoid is that I know everybody is out to get me!

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Jan 11th, '10, 12:47

Aqua Signal.. thems the one s Ive replaced twice.. They replaced them free.. but Ive got em mounted on the pulpit.. Yeah underwater alot.. Got the other ones now.. I report back!
Wayne ...Go Jets

Marlin · Post by **Marlin** » Jan 11th, '10, 19:20

My son has a 30 Intrepid a couple years old and came from the factory that way. I had a 1/2 tower installed by Palm Beach Towers last year and the running lites are led on the hardtop. I'm having a new 1/2 tower built for my 31 project boat and the lites will be on the hardtop. I don't think you can even see a stern lite on a transom of a outboard center counsel with a big pr of optimax.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 11th, '10, 22:19

If I am not mistaken, in the new regulations for stern lights on outboards, they have to be raised to the height of the highest point on the boat. The fold down and telescopic 360 degree stern light poles have to be lengthened to that height. Doesn't work very well in many cases, but I was told that I wasn't in compliance on my 16 foot Carolina skiff.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 12th, '10, 09:42

Rawleigh i cannot seem to find any paper work on the led lights for the bow chock.i went on e-bay under led lights there were 13,000 entries !!!! been a long time!!! ok so you buy the led " cluster" type led bulb with ss two pin make up ( same configuration as car stop light bulb)next go to sockett and buy two pin stainless steel type with two leads out bottom.shink tube over 6" of tails then put electricians penetrox on lamp ,install in sockett and schink tube over sockett.remove old lamp and sockett and push tails thru into anchor locker .seal around hole at bottom of chock. i think they were 32 led cluster . just measure the height of chock and buy correct bulb don`t forget sockett goes down thru hole in chock only bottom of bulb is in glass piece of chock.restore red and green color of chock glass with machine shop dykem ,thats most likely spelled wrong but thats how you say it.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 12th, '10, 10:57

We went to the Houston boat show yesterday and there was a big Everglades...I think a 29, but, anyway, the running lights were led flush mounted in the hull just under the rub rail. The thing about these lights was that they were machined out of heavy stainless and extremely nice. Bob, I know that you have a connection with the Everglades people, and if you found out a way of getting your hands on a pair, I'd sure like to know.
Many thanks.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 12th, '10, 15:43

wow how stupid of me--must be conservatively 40 everglades in the yard or boat sales location on hwy.everglades makes a 29/32/and 35' with out a doubt the best center console made with many can`t be bought items that this nut stays up at night thinking how to reinvent the wheel.like completely fold away anchor, touch screen bilge pumps and lights etc . all lighting is led and dimable will check at navigation lights tommorow.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 12th, '10, 17:42

I appreciate it, Bob. You're not kidding about all of those cool goodies on the Everglades...keeps me up at night also.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 12th, '10, 17:53

john on the 35'lx there is a button inside under dash, press it and the triangle floor in front of pilot house lift up and becomes a table!!!did you happen to notice the ss hatch cover latches . a work of art i wonder who makes them for him. i know the guy who makes the power seats he is from long island and the air conditioning/heat is made here too .if i had a behia-mar like your i would copy that hide away door on the entry to the center console .only one in the world .i will be a ny boat show across from worst marine.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 12th, '10, 21:33

I think I will get these lights by Perko as Capt Pat suggests, $110 for the set at Defender

...and put them up on the sides of the flybridge hood.

Thanks fellas.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Jan 12th, '10, 21:38

I went the Capt.McCrary way:

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 12th, '10, 21:39

IRGuy wrote:PS: The only reason I am paranoid is that I know everybody is out to get me!

Frank,
I'm not paranoid, but I know that everybody thinks I am

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 12th, '10, 22:16

Any opinions on these lights from Attwood?

Attwood LED Nav Lights

They don't look as attractive as the Perko lights, but they have 2 mile visability, while the Perkos I found were 1 mile. Cheaper too, $50 from Amazon

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Jan 12th, '10, 23:23

John
Not to hi jack the thread, but does noe down in free port build fuel tanks?

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 13th, '10, 00:25

Matt,
He probably does, but, I'd check out the info Mark S. gave you...I think that I'd pay the extra $ and do it right.

coolair · Post by **coolair** » Jan 13th, '10, 23:25

Thanks John
by the way, I drove by Leons shop today, saw his out front working on i think a shaft guard, but i didn't get to stop. I will try tomorrow, But he is still alive! haha

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '10, 22:12

john the everglades as you would expect uses a recessed ss led light for port and starboard i will look in to it. as for my personal feelings on the one of the kind bow chock i will go with dick bertram/raymond hunt .what the hell 50 year old desigh and still the first lady of the power boats .in my humble opinion i will do every thing i can to keep those navigation lights in the bow chock--(led lights) rather then dress the first lady as a cheap whore with plastic lights on her unique flybridge.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 15th, '10, 22:28

bob lico wrote:....rather then dress the first lady as a cheap whore with plastic lights on her unique flybridge.

Wow that's taking things a bit far, ain't it? We're talking modern nav lights here... not hanging up a mirrored disco ball

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 15th, '10, 23:15

sean i thought that might get a rise out of you. been a long time since you posted!!

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 16th, '10, 04:45

HA!! Okay Bob - well I guess you got my goat, nicely done.

Yeah most of the hellish time otherwise known as 2009 was a messy, busy, clusterfu<k year of massive adjustments for me. I didn't have much leisure time - or maybe a better description is: I had no "leisure inclination." I'm very glad to see many of the problems it brought finally drifting away in the rearview mirror. Things shall be different / better this year... and also I'm realizing how much I've missed yakking here on the board too.

Okay well back to the problem of exactly where on my "disco bridge" to put the strobe light. Maybe rename her "Boogie Boat," and get me a white corduroy bellbottom skipper suit. The glitter injectors get installed in the exhaust next week, and after... maybe a hot tub in the cockpit?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 16th, '10, 09:52

the truth is we care about our brothers and when one drops off the earth we tend to think it is for health reasons .i am glad this is not so.that being said lets move back to the subject . i would do anything i could to retain the navigation/bow chock. you just have to trust me we have my bertram and a sedan side by side and i was going to take a picture at night to show you but the sedan has no battery and would take a considerable effort to light up the stock lights . i am going to be conservative the led bow chock is about 3 to 4 times as bright as original ,and that was a two mile light. i see you are set on not using it so i want you to wait until i post a teardrop shaped recessed ss led light .any protrution you put on that area of the bridge would contribute to ruining the lines of the boat . that recessed step above the bridge and stepped in flybridge make it a 31 bertram.i will get back to you.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 16th, '10, 10:35

Bob,
Thanks for checking into the lights for me. I want to put them on my new tower on the sides of the control box. I really want those stainless leds after we ran across them at the boat show. Bob, I'll be standing by.
Much thanks.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jan 16th, '10, 10:52

that recessed step above the bridge and stepped in flybridge make it a 31 bertram

Bob...I think your kickin a dead horse here, preaching to the bar, and whatnot... I'm thinking Sean has a B35 or a B33? right?

And you honestly think putting tiny little led running lights on the bridge sides makes the old gal look cheap?
Come on man. Yeah, the chock is cool and should be preserved if possible... But I sure can think of several B31's with led's on the bridge that don't look anything like a streetwalking tramp...
a couple of which have photos of 'em posted in this thread...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 16th, '10, 11:22

buju you know i repect your opinion and you of all people a perfectionest has to at least admit installing a plastic light on the most noticeable part of the 31 bertram would take away from the charm.the contour of the 33' and 35' bertram is differant and would look find with a quality light like the ss one on the everglades or the somewhat less expensive version on the 36 luhrs.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 16th, '10, 11:59

Bob I agree the Bertram chock/light assembly is very cool... however my boat came with a pulpit when I bought it and the chock is long gone. I'm pretty fond of the pulpit, and it's set up such that replacing the chock is not an option.

Buju is correct: I have a B33 Sportfish. I like the 31's just fine, except that they tend to give a little too wet of a ride in the cockpit for my tastes...

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jan 16th, '10, 12:01

Oh yea, the LED lights we're talking about are stainless, not plastic. Moving them higher has to improve their visibility too

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 16th, '10, 12:03

The image below was taken from less than 20' away... You hardly notice that the Perko LED is even there.

These two images had a range of about 100'. Only the contrast between the lens and paint is discernable.

However, the increased height over the bow chock light and massively increased spread between the port and starboard lights makes for a vastly more visible arrangement. Even though putting the proper LEDs in the bow chock may give a 2 mile visibility on a flat plane, the bow chock is so much closer to the water that even a small 3' - 4' sea could effectively reduce the real time visibility to less than a mile.

So adding bridge side lights have very little effect in diminishing anything classic, especially the lines of the boat, but vastly increase the intended purpose of running lights and reduces the likelihood of water intrusion to a minimum.

Keep the chock as a Hood Ornament...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 16th, '10, 18:59

capt patrick you are not getting a rebuttal here. i agree the port and starboard lights higher off the water would make the boat more visible but i am caught up in the clean line thing however small as it is just one brothers opinion and nothing more.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jan 16th, '10, 22:06

Yeah Buddy Boy's lines look totally cluttered by the LED's in those shots.

Capt. Pat you musta not been into the "clean line" thing back then huh.......... LOL

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jan 18th, '10, 10:12

I was googling "marine LED lights" last evening and reading all I could find about replacing original equipment incadescent navigation light bulbs with LEDs. One of the best sources I found for technical info was the web site for Marinebeam.com.

http://www.marinebeam.com

There are some technical issues with the construction of the LED bulbs that make it important to install only LEDs that are specifically built for navigation lights. As I said in a post above, all LEDs are not created equal, and just installing an LED bulb that fits the socket of your navigation light is not the way to go.

It is also important that you recognize that (as of this date) the USCG does not approve or certify any LED bulb as being acceptable for use in a navigation light.. they only certify complate navigation light assemblies (bulb and fixture) as being acceptable.

The following was lifted from Marinebeam's web site..

(http://www.marinebeam.com/sumocl.html)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: The USCG, COLREG and EU test agencies do not approve light bulbs, and can only certify that a specific fixture complete with a specific light source meets the requirements. While our bulbs are the brightest LED replacement bulbs available, and will easily exceed the 15 Candela ISO EN 14744 requirements for 3nm visibility requirement for masthead anchor lights for yachts up to 65 feet, they don't have any sort of certification as stand-alone bulbs, or within any specific fixtures. These bulbs have not been tested in your specific fixtures, and we have no control over how you will use this product. Therefore, it must be the user's decision alone whether to use this product to retrofit existing fixtures which will be used for navigation. Additionally, we don't recommend using the Warm White bulb behind bi-colored or tri-colored lenses on boats greater than 12 meters (39 feet). The transmittance of LED wavelengths through the red lens may attenuate the output below the requirements for yachts greater than this length.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would do my homework and be careful about choosing LED bulbs for my navigation lights!

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Jan 18th, '10, 10:38

My chock is missing the lenses. Where or how can I get the lenses ????

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 18th, '10, 11:06

thats news to me not that i care i never even knew they make a warm white led. good choice for over a meat counter in the food store but would never be put on a boat anyways.i use bright white and i can see why my mast light is visible in the black nights of the canyon .the light and assembly was made for a 39 plus foot boat.incidenly this entire assembly is 316ss. the everglades uses a recess port and starboard led light i will photograph today.zero cavity try to google aqua meter i cannot find paper work .i will go over boat papers tonight.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jan 18th, '10, 12:28

Thanks for the website. Anyone know if this bulb is the right one to fit in the original B31 retractable bridge mounted anchor light with the glass lens? It is a tight fir for most bulbs and I haven't found an LED that fits yet.

http://www.marinebeam.com/ba15mibaledr.html

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 18th, '10, 12:45

make sure cool white 5000k . you could change to ss socketts they are on line somewhere. like e-bay

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Jan 18th, '10, 12:47

Couple things..My "Perko " lights seem to be bright.. More than I think the 2 mile light is... Could this be a problem for another boat gauging the distance w/o radar?
& while Ive considered placing them on the sides of the bridge.. I know they would glare off the rails on a dark night ruining night vision...
Wayne

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 19th, '10, 19:47

this is the version everglades uses .they are stamped uscc-2mi. in the black no sigh as to who they are made by. one of a kind led are sealed in a slot formation .

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jan 19th, '10, 19:58

mounted on the hardtop they look real good here is another view on a 27'everglades.incidently for those of you who need docking lights these are the ultimate made in 316ss with hp/halogen. very bright

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 19th, '10, 23:40

Bob,
You're the man with all of the clout! Can you help me get a hand on a pair?
Please?
Thanks.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 20th, '10, 09:21

I've got the same sort of side lights Bob shows, mounted on the sides of AJ's flybridge - like Patrick did on Buddy Boy - and they work fine, no glare, no water intrusion problem. The bow chock/light remains as a hood ornament.

UV

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