Number of people on board?

JK · Post by JK » Jul 10th, '09, 20:29

There is no writing on the boat which states the number of people allowed or max weight. Anyone know how many people are allowed/permitted on a 31? I remember years ago UV had a big crew on the way to the UVI but can't remember how many people were on board.

Assuming there are lifejackets for everyone on board, etc., how many people can you carry? I know I have 12 people on before for a joyride, not offshore fishing.

Thanks.

--JK

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Jul 10th, '09, 20:35

JK: Had a 25 with veedrives ..Had a factory sticker said 16 PEOPLE!!
Wayne

Iv had 18 pretty good sized one s on my 31 too

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jul 10th, '09, 21:19

I was on that trip with Uncle Vic from Venice to Port Eads. We were at least 6 of us from his camp to Venice (with all our luggage), then picked up at least 6 more with all their luggage and ran to Port Eads at cruise speed without skipping a beat. It may even have been more-Vic may correct me. Cases of beer, booze and Ice, too if I remember correctly. Walter

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jul 10th, '09, 22:01

The Coast Guard Safe Loading Capacity applies primarily to boats 20' in length and under...

At the first UVI, on "Another Joy" we topped off fuel in Venice, picked up additional passengers, bringing the head count to 12, along with all of their gear for a week's stay. Add to that all of Vic's fishing gear, ice, food, drinks, etc. I figure that we were around 4,000 lbs heavier than the boat would normally sit at the dock.

Water was starting to ship through the scuppers and the exhaust was fully under water. All but necessary line handlers were asked to move forward and shift as much weight as possible into the cabin. Once underway and above 13kts we were up and running along with the scuppers high and dry.

Everything is about loading and weight distribution and standing still at the dock is the most vulnerable time or the average B31. So this being used as a "first hand" experience of extreme loading for a 31 Bertram, I'd estimate that if you allow 1,000 lbs for excessive gear, that leaves 3,000 lbs. Reduce that by 20% for a safety margin, bringing the number to 2,400 lbs. That's about the weight of the total persons that could be safely carried. Twelve guys at an average weight of 200lbs comes back to the 12 guys we had on board...

If it's a Howdy Cruise and there's not a lot of excess gear on board, the 1,000lbs could be allocated to additional passenges, bringing the head count to around 17, (near Wayne's head count).

Again, the Safe Limits, as required to be stated by a manufacturer, only applies to boats 20' and under.

scot · Post by **scot** » Jul 10th, '09, 22:38

The tag on my 25 says "16" as well...I can not even conceive where you would put 16 people in the boat?

randall · Post by **randall** » Jul 11th, '09, 07:08

same here on the 16....not gonna happen. 8 is where i draw the line. after that its like vic says....herding cats.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jul 11th, '09, 08:08

We had 10 in Montauk to go to the bar at idle.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 11th, '09, 08:16

Having been on UV's fish camp/Venece/Port Eads trip, the booze and boudian weight was a enough to sink a Cuban raft.

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Jul 11th, '09, 08:48

Every Mothers Day the boat goes to Fire Island ( six mile trip) for lunch. At least 12 + 3 little kids ... no problem. This is in the Great South Bay in N.Y. Waves hardly ever get to three feet. I was going to have 18 one time and this board said it was too many. I listen to this board!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jul 11th, '09, 10:01

Closest I have come to going under from too much weight was about two weeks ago at dock with three kids and two adults with a full tank of fuel. My scuppers where a half inch from the water...did I mention my wife put a 6 x 10 foot blow up pool in the cockpit???

I came down the dock after work and knew something was wrong as the stern was sitting real low. She put the pool right up against the transom. Way too much weight right at the stern, at least I know my new deck supports are holding up fine.

Bad thing about too many people on a boat is they have legs and don't always use their heads. Someone sees something and everyone thinks it's a great idea to go take a look, disperce the weigth and everything is fine, put it in one spot and it gets interesting quick.

I had my wifes family out a few years ago...not real boating people. They all grouped together on one side so the boat was leaning pretty bad making it difficult to steer, so I explaing it was too much weight on one side, would a few people please move to the other side. A few moved over and all was good, then slowly they all starting to migrated to that side and I once again had to ask some to move again. The I got a "we did
move". It was a long ride...

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jul 11th, '09, 14:01

Chapman's has a formula for it. I ran it years ago and was startled by how many people it said I could carry. It was at least in the upper teens as I remember. Anyone have a copy handy?

neil · Post by **neil** » Jul 11th, '09, 15:52

we had 18 at my moms funeral 12 adults and 6 kids it was a nice ride

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jul 11th, '09, 16:46

Many years ago Montauk had a major partyboat disaster when the Pelican capsized. As I understand it the boat was overloaded, but the disaster was the result of something appearing in the water on one side of the boat and the overload shifted to one side to look at it in not-too-friendly seas.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jul 11th, '09, 23:13

Capt Dick Dean wrote:Every Mothers Day the boat goes to Fire Island ( six mile trip) for lunch. At least 12 + 3 little kids ... no problem. This is in the Great South Bay in N.Y. Waves hardly ever get to three feet. I was going to have 18 one time and this board said it was too many. I listen to this board!

Here's Irish Wake dockside at Montauk Rendezvous 2003

Here's Predator....same place

In 2005, I did a charter trip with Dick Dean on my boat. We had taken a group from Holy Cross to swim a marathon around Manhattan. There was a storm in the afternoon, and I ended up with 10 people and a kayak on Windstar. Picture, this group of swimmers, their gear, a marathon judge, the kayaker, his kayak, and of course, me and Dick Dean. During the downpour, everyone was under the bimin and forward. Just ask Dick.

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Jul 12th, '09, 07:49

From Chapman's 56th edition [1983] chapter 6 page 108..............relative to small boats 20' and under, per 31st October 1972's "capacity plate" USCG regulation..........and for which Chapman's states........."boats manufactured before this regulation may carry no capacity plate,or one based on a formula that is no longer used.In either case,you can determine the maximum number of persons that can be safely carried by the following equation:

Length [overall] x Breadth maximum width] divided by 15 [in feet and tenths of feet] = Number of persons.

Take the results to the nearest whole number.This is the number of persons that can be carried without crowding ,in good weather conditions....................

Chapman's goes on with:

"The weight carrying capacity of a small boat having a conventional hull can be determined by the equation:

7.5 x L x B x De = Allowable weight in pounds

L = Overall Length
B = Maximum Width
De = Minimum effective depth of boat

Measure De at the lowest point that water can enter.This takes into account low transom cut outs or credits an acceptable engine well.Dimensions are in feet and tenths.

Add up the weight of your outboard motor,battery,fuel tank and fuel (gas weighs 6lbs per gallon),and the equipment you carry...........Subtract this from the allowable weight found above.The remainder is the weight carrying capacity available for persons.

In any particular loading situation,use the value from the number of persons formula,or the allowable weight formula,which sets the lower limit........."

Loosely applied to my B28 I can carry 21 number of persons.............and on my 15' Boston Whaler 7 number of persons...................each of which I would never carry more than 8 and 5 [number of persons] adults in respectively....

For the allowable weight in pounds formula I'm not sure how De [minimum effective depth of boat] would be calculated............

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jul 12th, '09, 09:38

De = Minimum effective depth of boat

Therein lays the BIG Caveate for boats with self bailing scuppers... and just about all of the early, and even some of the later, Bertams have them. Without blocking off the self bailing scuppers, the load capacity calculation is reduced to a few inches of true free board.

The only,(partially), effective way to have self bailing scuppers and yet achieve maximum loading capacity of the boat is with check valve scuppers.

The Perko Cockpit Scuppers, pictured above in a 1 1/2" hose size, are probably the best available, but at a $180 - $200 each price tag.

It's doubtful that any of the faithful will ever push the safe passenger carrying capacity of their boat and even hypothetical load limits are somewhat meaningless without common sense and attention to load distribution and weather conditions.

Besides, unless you're in the Illegal Alien Transportation Business, who'd want 17 or 18, or more, people onboard any way? To me, 10 people on a 30' class boat is a sizable crowd and, as a general rule, I hate crowds...

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 12th, '09, 15:08

something appearing in the water on one side of the boat and the overload shifted to one side to look at it in not-too-friendly seas.

Hey Pat,
Didn't Mike tell us a story of that happening to the rental party boat of Lake Travis by the nude beach?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jul 12th, '09, 15:59

Yup, at the dudie nudie beach on Lk Travis and a double decker pontoon sight seeing boat loaded with a dudie-duddie party. All of 'em ran to one side to wave and gawk. Flipped the bitch right over. ROFLMAO just thinking about it... Guess they were reeeal sayyyylors after all.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 12th, '09, 17:20

Brings a whole new meaning to swinging into the wind..........

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jul 13th, '09, 16:59

We had 13 souls on board for that famous 22 mile trip down the Mississippi River and South Pass from Venice to Port Eads for the first UVI....and a few cases of beer or 30.....gear, etc. Capt. Patrick's 4,000# guess is about right. Those 250 Cummins pushed the whole she-bang along at her usual 24.5 kts.......did not feel heavy at all to me at the wheel. And we had some big boys on board too.

My old B25 with a tower and diesels was pretty tender with more than about 8 POB.....I took a lot more than that from the fuel dock to the front dock by the lighthouse at Port Eads one time and felt her almost capsize turning in the current at idle.....not so with the 31.....lotta boat.

UV

luis · Post by **luis** » Jul 13th, '09, 17:09

Here in Portugal , the legislation gaves me a max of 10 persons according with the studies they have based on length, beam, etc.etc.

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