Rudder Shelf????

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 21:35

Just wondering if the warping is an issue? Is the shelf providing support? Any thoughts..

Thanks,

Andy

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 29th, '09, 21:44

Andy

That shelf looks like its gonig to crack through. Looks like its time for a new shelf.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 21:56

Tony-

Do you think it will be good for another 50hrs? What would cause this? I am going to be running the boat from Va beach to Jacksonville, Fl over the holiday weekend and was hoping it would not be a major issue!

-Andy

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 29th, '09, 22:07

Andy,

It's on it's last leg at best... You may get another 50 hours out of it, but you're running on fumes. Whole thing needs to be ripped out and redone properly. Take it easy and keep an eye on it. Try to make hard turns only at slow speed & steer with your throttles as much as possible.

Might want to clamp a couple of pieces of heavy angle iron, top and bottom, with welding clamps...

Good luck!

Br,

Patrick

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 22:26

Damn! That does not sound good. Does anyone know someone in the Deltaville, Va area that could put one together for me? What would cause this? Should I be concerned with something else? When it does break what will be inop or tear up? Also I am attaching a little better picture!

Thanks,

Andy

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 29th, '09, 22:40

The second picture helps me a lot. Looks sturdier than before. I'd CX those ground connections, too. Kill that green stuff. Both sides about the same? Any rot or soft spots?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 29th, '09, 22:44

andy it is just like taking small arms fire from the locals you are going to have to take evasive measures now! that clamp on the ball joint is also looking for a accident to happen . losing your steering at cruise is like the rotor getting shot up. serious problem needs to be looked at now.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 29th, '09, 22:49

Well, Andy, that image dosen't look as horrible as the first one.... I think you'll be fine for your trip, but it certainly needs updating and and attention once you're at home port. Put it high on the "to do" list.

The warpage/cracking is simply what unprotected plywood does after it's lived in loaded and wet environment...

Keep in mind that the rudder shelf is subject to high latteral loading, not compressive loading. The high vertical ends, stacked on top of the outboard stringers and just lapped by the horizontal shelf makes for a pretty wobbly configuration. There at least needs to be some serious webbing under those corners.

Is this a B31? Certainly isn't OEM rudder ports and dead rise mounting...

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 23:00

No soft spots! The starboard side shows just a little but not that bad. Bob- that does not sound good so I guess I need to postpone my trip to get this fixed. This is one of the few chances with work that I will be able to cut loose and get the boat to Jacksonville. Then after that I could make the hop to stuart then ft myers in a weekend and then clearwater, fl to alabama in another weekend. This is one of my few three day weekends to make it down to jacksonville. Well I guess I should quit crying in my beer.

starboard side

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 23:05

Men-

I didn't want to get kicked off the forum but it is a 1970 36 hatteras. I really appreciate the replies and will get some more pics up after the final hand shake.

-ANDY

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 29th, '09, 23:08

andy does the steering have alot of "play" in the steering wheel ? i just want to make sure the former owner did not do a rube goldberg job on the steering arm by putting a hoseclamp over the ball sockett to prevent the ball from popping out do to wear in the joint. the hoseclamp may also be the way the former owner held the rudder indicator in place for (auto pilot) referance. if this is so the problem can be fix when you get back.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 23:12

Not much play! May a 1/4" but would have to re-check for sure. But I see what your saying and I would have never thought of that.

-Andy

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 29th, '09, 23:23

Bob- After you pointed that out (good eye) I zoomed in really close on the jerry rig apparatus and it is definitely holding the auto-pilot in place.

Thanks again,

Andy

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 30th, '09, 06:54

Andy,

When you get around to it, here's a configuration that would give maximum strength without reinventing too much. The shelf itself should, if possible extend all the way from port to starboard. All main elements, (vertical and horizontal), double thickness laminated, with a layer of glass in between. 1 1/2" minimum thickness.

If done in plywood, everything should be epoxy glass encased. If done in Coosa Board, outer face surfaces should have a layer of 3/16" glass and can be done with polyester or vinylester. Edges can be just faired for Coosa Board. Glass tab all joints, regardless of material. Four angle supports on each side, (port and starboard), to counter and spread your lateral loading. Lowering the shelf, if possible, will also strengthen the structure.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jun 30th, '09, 07:51

Andy,
I suggest you replace the packing on both rudder ports before you even make the run to Jacksonville, they have been leaking so some time, you can redo the rudder shelves when you get it back. What's the story with the white caulking compound at the transom/hull side area in one of the pictures?.

Pete Fallon · Post by **Pete Fallon** » Jun 30th, '09, 08:04

Andy,
I would repack both rudder ports before you make the trip back to Jacksonville, they look like they have been leaking for a long time, you can redo the shelves when you get it home. What's up with the white caulking compound at the transom hullside joint in one of the pictures?. There appears to be a lot of corrosion on the copper pipe with the cable ties and I saw a rusted area on the engine/tranny area in the turbo picture in your other post. Did you have the boat closely surveyed?

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 30th, '09, 08:56

Andy: How is access to it? Can you get to it enough to strong back it with a piece of 1 x 2 wood on edge? Put them under the shelf and screw down into them from above. That would at least get you through the trip safely.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 30th, '09, 11:24

Pete- The boat is 40 years old and not perfect but has had a lot of upgrades to include all mechanical systems in the past 7-8 years some newer. I am going to have to get the cleaning supplies out and put some elbow grease into the bilge/engine compartments. The deck was replaced and may be where the caulking has come from. The rudders were not leaking any water for the 4 hours I was on the boat. I am going to take it real easy heading south utilizing the inside and close to the beach throughout the trip with continuous monitoring of systems. Yes the boat has been surveyed and insured. Raleigh- there is definitely room to work and put that reinforcement on the shelf.

Thanks again for all the advice and help. If you see a 36 hatteras named Miss Caroline headed south down the east coast over the weekend give me a call on 16.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jun 30th, '09, 16:26

Andy,
Rawleigh and I are across the river from you in Lancaster. Both of us have faced this issue. Maybe we can be of help. Give me a call. 438-5543.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jun 30th, '09, 18:29

Mikey- I really appreciate the offer. I am having a guy look at it in The morning to see if we need to reinforce for trip. It has been like this for some time and definitely needs to be fixed. I am getting a good indication that it will make the trip but will definitely keep a close eye on it. Probably will reinforce with board and bolts. I spent last friday night at the Tides Inn thanks to a military discount and then went and sea trialed the boat out of a creek in North Mathews. Yall have a beautiful area up there and the people are great. If I run into trouble and get stuck for longer I might be in touch.

Thanks again,

ANDY

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 30th, '09, 22:37

Andy

Don't worry the Mean Team will let you stay on the board. They will just put you in the same ranking as Timmy.

Bertram or Hatteras, doesn't matter, the older boats were built like tanks and should serve you well and both deserve their due respect.

Have a safe trip.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Jul 1st, '09, 10:52

Andy,
Wish I had known. I live a mile from The Inn and was cocktail cruizin the creek Friday. Could have come by and offered my advise and a clear. Not necessarily in that order.
Next time.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Jul 1st, '09, 11:12

Yes sir, I hate I missed that oppurtunity. The boat was pulled out today at Deltaville Marina and bottom cleaned now back in the water. They are cleaning the eng/xsm coolers and servicing the oil, filters and changing belts. Also, I have someone looking at the rudder shelf. If all checks ok she is headed to Va Beach where I will be driving into from Alabama on Thursday night to start the run south on Friday Morning. Once again that area is beautiful and the people are nice like us southern folks! LOL

Thanks,

ANDY

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jul 1st, '09, 16:17

Mikey: I should be in the slings tonight and back in first thing tomorrow. The guy who worked with me had 20 hours on it as of last night. I had three more days on it before he came to work. Probably at least 48 man hours total. I got all underwater metal ground clean, primed with one coat of etching primer and two coats of tier coat primer, two coats of Pettit Ultima SR60 on the bottom and running gear, and got the hull below the gunnel buffed. I'm over working on it and want to go for a boat ride!! unfortunately i need to go to the gas dock Friday afternoon for a that nonethanol gas.

bertram31.com

Rudder Shelf????

Rudder Shelf????

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