Boaters safety certificate to boat in NJ waters...or a fine?

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 4th, '09, 10:01

Is this for real? I took the course years ago, mainly to bring my wife up to speed, but I learned quite abit myself. But I think it should be taken by all with a "road test" . I see some real Short Bussers in the Capt's seat that should not be allowed to command a skatebourd never mind several tons of fiberglass.

Non the less, I can't wait to see my dads face when I tell him he has to go to a class run by Coast Guard wanna bee's or face a fine. Even though we are in New York I was told if he cross into NJ waters he will be fined...gotta catch him fist I know, but they board over here pretty often and the fishing is right on the boundery

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 4th, '09, 10:17

First I've heard of that.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 4th, '09, 10:53

Sorry, forgot to post link...

http://njsp.org/maritime/faq.html

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 4th, '09, 11:22

In light of the actions of idiots I have perceived over the years I have been boating, I cannot argue the need for some sort of requirement of competance, but if you want a guarantee of creating a confusing and uninforceable set of rules, turn it over to government. The word simple just isn't in their vocabulary.

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Jun 4th, '09, 15:35

Well Capt Harv, who really, really like fishing in NJ doesen't have to worry. His boat is high and very dry. Maybe the law will be recinded in a few yrs and by that time all be all be be well.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 4th, '09, 20:16

Dick

Doesn't Harv have his Capt's Lic? If he does he is good to go in any State waters.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jun 10th, '09, 12:11

Yes I do, and yes I can.
Dick is just poking a little fun at me.
But he will be looking to fish with me all the time,
once I get my back and boat squared away.

neil · Post by **neil** » Jun 10th, '09, 15:48

they have to do something,the amount of idiots driving boats is way to high.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 10th, '09, 19:46

Harv

Do we need to give you our condolences on having Dick as a passenger?

Neil

The course is a joke. It's a money making scam for the State and whomever has there hands in this. There is no way a new boater can take this course and then be turned loose with the thought that they now know what they are doing.

At the very least they should force them to sit through a more detailed course.

I am sorry I took it. I should have just gone and signed up for a course to get my Capt's License. Then I would not have to worry if I am in NJ/ NY or Delaware waters.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jun 10th, '09, 21:07

Tony,

Really you learned nothing..........Really nothing at all.
You think that that the people from Bayonne, Elizabeth, Newark and New York. (BENNY) learn nothing as well.

We take for granted that we grew up on the water and have a common knowledge of boating. The more people you can educate and by that make liable for their actions on the water becomes better for everyone.

I can sit and watch countless numbers of boaters every weekend that would benefit from even the most simple education. Just because a select few know whats going on don't think its a general rule. People are stupid, add alcohol and no consequences and they become retarded. This education is a good thing regardless of the governments meddling the net effect is a plus.

Need proof we need to educate the masses hang out around the Pt Pleasant canal or Manasquan River rail road bridge when the Jamaica comes through. Can anyone say "vessels burdened by draft"

Face it,,,,,its another tax that will go the general fund and end up not helping the boaters. The idea is agreeable however being in NJ we'll just f*ck it up.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 10th, '09, 22:37

The money awarded the states from the Tobacco littigations that were supposed to be used for the medical services of those with smoking created illnesses have started to find their way into the general budgets. The insanity of government is best shown by the fact that states like North Carolina pay subsdies to their Tobacco farmers with those funds. Just like the legalized gambling in the tri-state area got passed because its profits were going to be used for education. Ha! Haven't heard a word about that since it got passed. These guys make Bernie Madoff look like a saint. At least he admits he operated a scam. Salt water fishing licenses will be the same thing. No matter what they tell you, its income will find its way into the general fund...not to anything else.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 10th, '09, 22:41

JP

I am not saying I did not learn anything. This is the 3rd time I ran through a course of some type. Unfortunately the prior ones were too old to use for the license.

Like a lot of the people here we have all been on the water a long time. I am far from an expert. I would never put my boating knowledge or skills up against yours or some of the others on this board, or claim I knew more.

As I always tell my staff we can all always learn from each other no matter how old we are or how much experience we have.

When we started boating I was also fortunate enough to have people around me who knew how to really handle a boat. Trust me they taught me a lot including how to run a nasty inlet. Unfortunately you don't get that in a course and only experience will help with that one.

For a first time boater, I do not think this is the course to take or make them take.

I had a number of people in the course who were first time boat owners who purchased 30 foot boats. I don't think they are going to be running them around the bay. They have no idea as to what they are up against if they try to venture outside on the wrong day.

I have been running Barneget Inlet for over 30 years and there are days it still will throw a suprise at me and thats after they fixed it and it's probably 20 times better than it was before it was straightened out. You go out its just one smooth inlet, come back hours later and it looks like a washing machine with a current that is just ripping. I know you know how it gets. I pitty the poor guy who thinks now that he took the course he is prepared for something like that.

I just think the course is a money maker for the State. If you are going to do it then do it right, make them take the more detailed course. Make them go through sections of Chapmans like I did in the old days.

Right now I am unfortunate enough to be sitting close enough to the travel lift to listen to some of the conversations that go on. On saturday I happen to over hear a guy asking the travel lift operator if he could help him and explain what certain switches were on the boat. When the I heard the guy explaining they were circuit breakers and so on I thought should this guy even be venturing out on the bay, he doesn't even understand how his boat functions.

I am assuing he took the course. Maybe a bad assumption however, I still don't think this is the right course for beginners.

What I am also trying to say is that the way this thing is going to be going, if you want to boat in other State waters even just passing through, going all out and getting A Capt. license might be the approach to take, since that will give you the freedom to move about without worrying about inidividual State Boating laws and having the right papers in place. It's only a matter of time before each State follows suit and mandates some type of boating permit or course.

Don't get me wrong, Education is good. Its the move in the right direction, just as usuall, not done right. All you can hope for is that those that take the course, understand how serious things can be on the water and that prompts them to take further courses.

Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression about what I might have learned or not learned. I am just tired of people thinking that its easy. Take a quick crash course, just jump in and turn the key. Sitting in slip and watching what goes on just on Forked River scares me. I say to myself I am on the water with these people, god help us all.

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 11th, '09, 00:23

You should try writing a crash report for a boating accident. No skid marks, witnesses usually gone by the time the law gets there and add to it most boaters can't tell you the difference between port and starboard. The state courses are a joke. Here is the flipside though, although I think there should be a boaters driving test just like a car and some sort of real license......then many of would probably gagle at the thought of the state or the gov mandating safety and true education. Is boating a right or a priveledge? I guess I just take it for granted when surrounded by peers that know how to run a boat. I was born in a boating town. My dad had me on the boat before I could remember it. It is a skill that is passed down to all the Jr's out there. You either have "it" (salt) in your blood or someone gave you a shitload of money and a 40 foot boat sounds like a good idea. Sure, I may be the bad guy cuase I once was the boyscout with the gun but there are way too many bonified retards out there with a 10 ton missles with no guidance system.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Jun 11th, '09, 10:13

I didn't grow up on the water, but I did grow up loving it. When I bought my first boat over 20 years ago, I took the CGA safe boating course befoire I even bought the boat. I learned a lot from it. I have since gotten my Capt's license, and learned a lot more when taking those classes. The way that NJ is implementing licensing is, NJ being NJ, obviously stupid. But I have no issues with forcing people to demonstrate at least a minimal level of knowledge before they get behind the wheel of a boat.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jun 11th, '09, 11:54

Kevin wrote:most boaters can't tell you the difference between port and starboard.

Port is wine. Starboard is being replaced by Azek.

Any questions?

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jun 11th, '09, 14:10

If there is any test ever it should be running a boat to pass it. Docking, running bouys, showing someone you can run a boat. Written tests are ok but you have to show you flew a plane before they let you do it on your own.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 11th, '09, 14:48

mike ohlstein wrote: Port is wine. Starboard is being replaced by Azek.

Any questions?

Now thats funny...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 11th, '09, 19:39

sometimes the boating issue really hits home. when a new boat is sold at oakdale yacth one of us takes the new owner for a trial run and also make sure everything is operating correctly. i still cannot believe people fishing in the middle of a channel mark with port and starboard navigation aids give you the "finger" as you drive by ! i truly belive that most of these new boat owners think they are in the right.the great south bay could be 3 miles across in some places but only 50 yards of it is 8 feet deep .here is this 22' bayliner anchored dead center and he is yelling at you!!!lately the coasties with to many men and nothing to do give them a warning our tax dollars ar work.-------------amen

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 11th, '09, 23:49

Mike, that was pretty good.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jun 12th, '09, 06:29

Port is also the place that 90% of "boaters" never leave...

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jun 13th, '09, 08:37

I doubt if 80% of the people who own boats are even aware of the "Rules Of The Road", let alone have read them, but they state, often in legalese terms, the generally accepted rules seamen should follow when underway...

Rule 2a of the Navigation Rules Int'l and Inland states..

"Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master, or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case."

This means everyone operating a boat is supposed to follow these Rules, as well as practice "good seamanship".

Rule 2b of these Rules then states...

"In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger."

Essentially this means that regardless of whether the other guy is following these Rules or not.. we are all responsible for taking whatever action is necessary to avoid "immediate danger" situations.

So.. like it or not.. we are all responsible for taking whatever action is necessary to avoid "immediate danger" regardless of whatever the idiot in the other boat is doing. I might not seem fair, or logical, but we all have the responsiblity to keep the other guys out of danger, even if it requires that we throw the rule book out the window.

Happy boating!

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jun 13th, '09, 09:02

Brewster- can you repost that link of the CG Auxialry crashing into that guy? Remember your question, "Who is at fault here?" Better yet, remember the answer! I think the more education that gets pounded into people's heads about boating safety and dangers the better.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 13th, '09, 09:57

Coast Guard Auxiliary Accident : You decide..

<embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/590_1206082695" width="450" height="370" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="index"></embed>

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Jun 13th, '09, 10:04

Thanks Capt Pat I was looking for it.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 13th, '09, 10:11

I think the problem with "the Rules of the Road" and "Avoiding Immediate Danger under all Circumstances" is the fact that both require "Common Sence" which we all know is Not All That Common.

The smart skipper will take some time to learn how to handle his boat (practice), learn about his boat and learn the rules of the road. Maybe on his own, help of some buddies or take a course.
Problem is "the Less then Prudent Skipper thinks he knows it all and just does whatever suites him and that is the people that need to be forced into taking a course. Will it help, maybe but its better then nothing... I guess.

What I just found interesting... is that I heard about new "Law" as dock chatter. You would think there would be a more formal addressing of this.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jun 13th, '09, 10:11

CaptPatrick wrote:Coast Guard Auxiliary Accident : You decide..

<embed src="http://www.liveleak.com/e/590_1206082695" width="450" height="370" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="index"></embed>

We've seen and been over this before.

Both are at fault, but I would give blame to the Aux Captain.
The outboard had right of way, but was not paying attention to his surroundings, as was evidenced by his statement that he never saw the Aux boat.

The Aux vessel, while not having the right of way, did have this outbaord in full view and did not follow the Cardinal rule of boating...
"Take any and all measures available to AVOID A COLLISION!!!"

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 13th, '09, 21:26

The speedboat was stupid but he WAS in the Coast Guard's boats "danger zone" and that's going to be a problem for them when the case is reviewed.[/u]

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Jun 14th, '09, 00:53

Gonna have to disagree. Video is scewed. They alternate between a marked 41 foot coast gaurd boat and interior of privately owned boat....which is not marked except for a silly banner and maybe an orange light. The guy driving has no gun, no enforcement power and obvviously no brain. Notice the larger vessel in back ground. It, along with outboard vessel had right of way over aux vessel according to nav rules. Yes both are at fault according to nav rules. Failure to keep proper look out for the outboard but complete failure of aux boat to avoid collision. In fact I would be comfortable taking it to court and pushing the issue of wreckless boating to the aux. dude and I would win the case hand down in favor of the outboard powered vessel. I would also get him with safe speed according to nav rules. I could go on but I do not have the book in front of me. A volunteer under the impression they can enforce laws is totally assinine and dangerous. They do not have the authority or equipment to do so. Danger zones or what ever the media claims they were doing is for either coast gaurd or other properly marked, sworn, gun toting boyscouts or what ever we are calling them this week.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 14th, '09, 08:34

Now whats funny is these Auxillery Coast Guard Personel (cough) are the ones teaching the safety course.

Think they will use this video as a visual aid?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Jun 14th, '09, 09:52

I think that I will bite my tongue on this one.....

Harry

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jun 14th, '09, 21:57

Sim

On a summer weekend in NJ you can throw common sense out the window. They don't have any. They all think they are still driving on the Garden State Parkway.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Jun 15th, '09, 07:35

Tony Meola wrote:Sim

On a summer weekend in NJ you can throw common sense out the window. They don't have any. They all think they are still driving on the Garden State Parkway.

I know how you feel. Try running the Great South Bay on a Saturday night. Idiots are running each other over, hitting bridges, crashing into docks. It really is beyond belief. Upside is they usually get removed from the boating pool, even if they live they don't come back.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 15th, '09, 14:40

It can be bad around here as well, but once I get away from the harbor I can usually get away from most people.

If you want to really see something you have to check out New York Harbor for the Macys firework display. Boats on top of each other, drinking like fish, then soon as it's over it seems everyone cranks up and runs. Wakes galore, who is cutting off who, some have running lights, others shining spotlights in you eyes... Coast Guard and Police boats running in the midst of the mess, it's ridiculous. I went years and years ago on a families freinds boat and I will never go there again. Don't care how many please, please's I get.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 15th, '09, 16:14

Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you don't have to yield if possible if someone else takes it! The Doctrine of Last Clear Chance" says that if you have the ability to avoid the accident and don't, you can be liable even if you have the right of way. My point being that I always assume that the other guy is an idiot and try to avoid having to depend on them knowing he rules!

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jun 15th, '09, 16:49

The rules don't mean a thing if the majority of the people don't know what they are. Couple that with with no enforcement of them and you have what you have now. Boarding fishing boats and giving tickets for outdated flares, a bulb out on a running light even though it's daylight, while wave runners jump wakes in the inlet.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 16th, '09, 07:16

Rawleigh wrote: My point being that I always assume that the other guy is an idiot and try to avoid having to depend on them knowing he rules!

DITTO
That really sums up my boating attitude!!

bertram31.com

Boaters safety certificate to boat in NJ waters...or a fine?

Boaters safety certificate to boat in NJ waters...or a fine?

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