B28 freshwater leak

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » May 24th, '09, 17:37

Today I noticed my freshwater pressure pump was running for no reason.
Little or no water was coming out of the spigots so I figured we must be out of water. Inserted the hose in the fill cap let it run for a while, for a long while, too long in fact. Checked the forward bilge and found what I expected; 6" of water. Once I got the bilge pumped I noticed a stream of water coming from the side of the aft of the two tanks. From that area anyway since I couldn't actually inspect the tank's sides. All hoses appear to be intact and in good condition so I can only surmise a leak from the tank. Tanks appear to be welded aluminum strapped to shelves in the bilge. Are the welds prone to failure (if you wanna call 25 years of service failure)? Or is corrosion in some damp hidden area more likely?

I figured I'd isolate the tanks and see if the forward tank will hold water/pressure. If so I can have water in the galley and head while I deal with the aft tank. (Only the freshwater wash down appears to be connected to the aft tank.)

Thoughts?

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » May 24th, '09, 17:48

holes in the bottom I suspect.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 24th, '09, 18:33

if you wanna call 25 years of service failure

Good life span for an aluminum tank... Change 'em both out for HDPE or fiberglass.

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » May 24th, '09, 18:45

CaptPatrick wrote:Good life span for an aluminum tank... Change 'em both out for HDPE or fiberglass.

Does HDPE retain pink anti-freeze smell due to its porosity?

It would be nice to have tanks I could fully drain annually.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 24th, '09, 18:56

HDPE rotocast tanks would be the first choice for a fresh water tank and you can have the supplier add a drain port with plug. Why are you worried about anti-freeze smell?

http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?cat=12

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » May 24th, '09, 19:54

I've never been able to fully get it out of my fresh water system. My current tanks don't have drain plugs that I know of.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » May 25th, '09, 07:50

Steve I replaced my old aluminum tank in my 28B after it started to leak with a nice polyethylene tank. The best water I ever had in that old 28B. When the time comes my 35B aluminum tank will get changed out for polyethylene. No problems with pink juice. Guess what Steve those blue or white 55 gallon drums the pink juice comes in are polyethylene HDPE.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » May 26th, '09, 06:45

Steve: Switch to vodka!!

Wingnut · Post by **Wingnut** » May 26th, '09, 14:56

Steve,

FWIW, you situation sounds just like mine. The original tank in my "new" B28 is also welded aluminum and leaks. I have only one small tank. I guess because they increased capacity in later boats?

I'm going the PE route for sure. The previous owner used to keep his full all the time to help reduce roll. I think I'll try to fit a bigger tank to do the same and simply to have the increased capacity.

Do any of the B28 systems have provision to use dockside water directly for pressure / supply or do they simply use a manual or electric pump system?

I think it would be simple enough when I re do my system to include a parallel system with some valving but I'm not sure how this is typically done. I'd expect this must be perfect as a blown hose line would be a quick way to sink a boat!

JD

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » May 26th, '09, 15:28

Gin maybe I don't care for vodka much. Freshwater hook on the 28B is easy all you need are the fittings and pressure valve to set the incoming pressure. On my 35B is have never bothered to hook-up a city water valve.
I I get low at the dock I just re-fill the 80 gallon tank. The stuff is just for bathing and deck washdown. I only drink bottled water in the boat. The stuff out of the tank is never "right".

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » May 26th, '09, 16:36

Wingnut wrote:FWIW, you situation sounds just like mine. The original tank in my "new" B28 is also welded aluminum and leaks. I have only one small tank. I guess because they increased capacity in later boats?

Do any of the B28 systems have provision to use dockside water directly for pressure / supply or do they simply use a manual or electric pump system?

I think it would be simple enough when I re do my system to include a parallel system with some valving but I'm not sure how this is typically done. I'd expect this must be perfect as a blown hose line would be a quick way to sink a boat!

Mine's an '83 and the capacity was listed as 54 gallons (total). It looks like the tanks will be removable through the openings. Could it be that someone at Bertram actually stopped and said, "Hey, what if these tanks need to be removed?"? (Truth is I've found access around the B28 pretty good, except for the helm electronics).

I don't know if any B28's are set up for dockside water. I doubt it, its pretty much a fishing boat with basic amenities. Don't have much interest in a dockside water system myself, we use the sinks to wash our hand is all and drink bottled water. I've thought of using vodka to winterize but the pink stuff's cheaper.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 26th, '09, 16:51

I've thought of using vodka to winterize but the pink stuff's cheaper.

AhhhSooo... NOW I know how you're getting antifreeze in the fresh water system. That stuff is for engines only.

To winterize your fresh water system, simply run all the water out of it, disconnect the hose from the pressure side of the pump to make sure it's empty, and reconnect. Even if you have some residual water lurking about and it freezes, you have more than ample expansion room for it.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » May 26th, '09, 18:34

Captain Pat for us guys in the frozen north it is safer to pump a little pink juice through the system. This way you the pump is safe as is the expansion tank and plumbing to the hot water heater. I use a compressor; maybe the pink juice is over kill.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 27th, '09, 14:38

The pink stuff up here is for Fresh water systems as well.

I'll empty tank and then run a bit thru the lines then try to drain again.

We only wash are hands with the fresh water system as the stuff from the hose comes out with green floaters. Found that out when we used to fill the lil pool up in the cockpit. We could let the hose run for an hour and still had floaters...

Wingnut, you have probly heard before or just know it...but if your connected to City water remember to disconnect when you leave the boat. Otherwise if a line or valve goes inside the boat you'll wind up with a U-Boat. Bertams don't make good U-Boats...

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » May 27th, '09, 16:10

if your connected to City water remember to disconnect when you leave the boat. Otherwise if a line or valve goes inside the boat you'll wind up with a U-Boat. Bertrams don't make good U-Boats...

It's not just direct hookups that need to be disconnected.

I know of one Buddy Davis that was left with a "live" dockside wash down hose laying in the cockpit. Over night, the plastic spray handle blew off of the hose. The lazzerette hatch was open to air out the bilge, and you guessed it: Only the house top was showing when the sun came up.

Now this adding anti-freeze in a fresh water system thing still makes me crazy... If the system is pumped down until it stops pumping water, there is no danger, (that I can see), of any damage, even in the event of a hard freeze.

The only time a freeze is going to break something is when there is no room for the expansion of the water becoming ice.

I've left a 100' water hose coiled on the ground, only disconnecting it from the hose bib and removing the spray nozzle, during a hard freeze. Didn't drain the hose... 48 hr period, low at 16ÂºF and a high for the period of 28ÂºF.

Hose solid as a rock but not damaged because there was expansion room... Yeah, I know, you Yankees have colder temps and longer freezes, but once water is frozen to around 25ÂºF it has expanded as far as it's going to, and whether its for 17 hours or 17 days makes no difference.

On all of the boats I ever ran or maintained, I always flushed out the fresh water tank once a month. Re-filled with an addition of a 1/2 pint of fresh chlorine bleach, let sit for a couple of hours, re-flushed and refilled with no more bleach added. Never a smell from the system, water crystal clear, and never, ever, a "floater"...

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 27th, '09, 17:44

thats what i do with the fresh water system , i go with the bleach routine .i am sure there must be critters or bacteria growing in the off season. i should think that bleach is mandatory in the beginning of the season,the grand children wash there hands every time they use the head or eat (grandma is very strict ) you have to be on top of the germ situation at all times on your boat.you are the captain and it is your responsibility !!!

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » May 27th, '09, 21:36

Steve - I just pulled mine - and fixed the leaks - we will see if they hold - The sit on wooden platforms that hold water. That's where the corrosion starts.

They do come out fairly easy try and drain as much water out as possible as they can get pretty heavy. Mine had notches where you could bend the straps out - to give you a little more room. Mine is an 1985 and listed as the same capacity

Like you - I only plan on using these for washing hands, etc.

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Jun 8th, '09, 14:44

Well, you guys called it. The tank sits on a pad on a shelf. It came out pretty easily and has one large and one small hole in the bottom:

I'm going to try and bypass the aft tank and just run off the forward tank, until it begins to leak of course. I figure I'll just get good pictures and measurements from the leaky tank for future reference and be happy with my new below deck storage space. What do you think? Do-able?

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jun 8th, '09, 14:57

I added a tee at the tank outlet so that you can open it to drain the tank into the bilge. I also added a plastic screw out deck access plate to the top of the tank so that I can get inside to give it a good cleaning periodically.

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Jun 9th, '09, 07:13

That's a big hole - mine were not quite as large - more like pin holes - I fixed them and I'm curious to see how long they hold.

bertram31.com

B28 freshwater leak

B28 freshwater leak

Who is online