Azek thickness recomendations

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Apr 2nd, '09, 20:08

Getting ready to pull the trigger on some Azek for the cockpit enclosure. Can't remember what the consensus was on thickness (3/8 or 1/2). (Over $400.00, so I want to ask). Bob, Randall ,Dug or anyone else....you experience is appreciated.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 2nd, '09, 20:23

brother hold on what are you saying 400.00 for how many 4x8 sheets?i assume you mean 4 - times 4'x8' sheets. remember what i said azak only that has to come from a real lumber yard . to walk into a depot would be a insult to your intelligents .on long island it has completly take in over hign contruction . ALL soffits and facia is done in azak if you build victoria or queen anne then wrap around porches,lattice and decorative molding is all azak no substitution .build wright into ocean front homes up and down eastern coast has past the test of time and weather almost twice as dense as competition especially if you router quateround edge .costal contractor magazine list it as the only choice especially after gorvernment hurricane testing.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 2nd, '09, 21:40

what are yuo trying to build?...not sure

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Apr 2nd, '09, 21:48

I beleive Giff is lookin to replace his cockpit panels...

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 2nd, '09, 21:54

oh...i like to call em splash boards. id go half. just that much sturdier.

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Apr 2nd, '09, 22:01

i like to call em splash boards

I hear ya... For some reason, a few years ago I began refering to my homestyle hurricane shutters as "clapboards" (pronounced clabboards)... not sure why.
thinking rum had something to do with it though, and putting them up six times in a few months. Whatever, it stuck and clapboards they are.

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Apr 3rd, '09, 05:50

Bob-

Price was for 2 4X10' sheets from a "real lumber yard"(unfortunately need just over 8' continuous). $218 per sheet in Azek ("off the street price...no contractor discount"), the guy at the yard offered up "Fypon" as an alternate at about 175.00 for the same size. The Fypon materil appeared similar and supposedly is new to the market as a competitor to Azek. I have samples of both with fasteners in them floating in a bucket in my back yard for testing purposes. For curiosity sake wanted to see how the material would hold fasteners.

When I did my house over (bought from the same yard above....but as a contractor through my brother in law (real well known guy around here who somewhat recently passed on, and everyone knows it, so I can't use his account)), I used Azek for all the trim and it worked well. The stuff is easy to work with even through in stinks alittle when you rip it. That said..from my experience...house ain't boat reltive to harshness of the environment. Also never played with sheets of the stuff, just trim boards.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 3rd, '09, 08:40

i love the stuff....BTW...here all it takes to be a "contractor" is open an account. i did 30 years ago and get to park in the easy access lot and get on the short line and charge it. 5% discount....used to be 10.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 3rd, '09, 09:23

ok now i got you .you are redoing the cockpit panels there are 9' so you need a 4' by 10' cut in half and one for transum. like randall said go with 1/2" and no screws on cockpit floor.cut a piece of backer with 5/4" azek (buy cheap 5/4 x 2") and run a bead of 3m 4000 uv . also run bead beween cockpit floor and pannel. eliminate impossible to keep nice teak floor strip !the 4000 will come apart with pry bar 50 years from now and does not fade, or turn yellow. i have custom made hatches for cockpit pannels. thet are locking and same color as azek about 30" long and 14" high .when installed you could used store bought plano plastic boxes to keep tackle in (like top of the line sportfisherman).tackle or whatever stays out of weather organize and theft proof.

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Apr 3rd, '09, 11:52

Giff, I would think 1/2 would work really well. Not sure if 8' is long enough though for the transom. I don't remember. I know my fiberglass panels came in 4x10 sheets. If I had a complaint, it would be that the Kallwall fiberglass is too thing. Rugged, but thin.

Sounds like you are on the right track however.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 3rd, '09, 13:43

giff you will need a 4'x10' for the two cockpit sides and a 4x12 for the stern piece. the stern piece is a little over 11' if you plan ahead make a backer or block out of 5/4" azak and polyurathane to stern panel then side panels attach with 3m-4000 uv .no screws ,very clean look and easy to maintain ,10 years from now if you abuse the cockpit you could always paint.azak loves paint just sand lightly to break shine and paint away.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 3rd, '09, 14:03

what i did was screw the tops under the gunwales and velcroed the bottoms

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Apr 3rd, '09, 20:43

All-

Many thanks for your inputs...I am pumped and ready to roll. BTW Randall, thanks for the picture for inspiration. Very clean work..I am impressed. I have pix of Bob and Dug's boats from the rally, also both great examples. (had this project on my mind for a while)

All the best
Giff

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 3rd, '09, 22:33

Giff

Not to steal your thread, but I have a question for those that have done this. How do you secure the bottom so it doesn't vibrate or move around?

On my old set up, there was a piece of wood that was screwed down to the deck and then the bottom of the panes crewed into that with the teak strip along the bottom. There are also a couple of plywood tabs attached to the hull that helped support the panels also.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 4th, '09, 07:57

tony as i mention above you have to do away with this teak.i love teak but that piece is impossible to maitain.take five quarter (5/4") azak purchase as a 5/4" x 2" x 12' piece very common for use as window trim out on window installation.use this along the cockpit floor attach to floor with 3m- 4000 uv . cut 5/4" azak in half lenth wise on table saw.makes a waterproof backer for cockpit panel .on top use existing wood backer blocks attach to the under gunnel.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 4th, '09, 09:33

tony....i used velcro. the hidden screws under the gunwale hold all the weight and the velcro just keeps em from flapping.....it works.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 4th, '09, 16:12

randall the differant between the 25 bert deck and the 31 deck at the transum is a substantial crown. for somebody other then you to cut that azak exact would really be a chore. the bead of uv 4000 is going to cover all the sins . you can`t cut it will a table saw and you have to resort to a jig saw.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 5th, '09, 07:39

on the 25 deck the splash boards dont reach the deck at all. that makes it a lot easier as its somewhat arbitrary where you stop em. another thing i like about the velcro is it holds them off a bit which lets water entering through the rod holders to drain back to the deck and out the scuppers. the 25 deck is more of a unjbody design.

Bob H. · Post by **Bob H.** » Apr 5th, '09, 18:06

Randal, On deck fish box looks great...Any more pictures of it?

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 5th, '09, 18:46

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Apr 5th, '09, 20:58

Randall- I'm sure he thinks your engine box is the fish box he's talking about. Yours is not the commonplace B-25 cockpit which is usually a pair of IOs. Walter

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 5th, '09, 21:04

Randall

I take it that you glued the velcro to the deck and the bottom of the panel, then the panel sat on top of the velcro? Sounds pretty unique.

Bob,

I am assuming you are using any type of trim at the bottom and just leaving it natural as it hits the deck?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 5th, '09, 21:55

tony no trim at all, a clean look and no obstacle for the scrub brush .just clean cockpit by pushing blood and waste to two 2' wide and 3" high collector boxes leading to scubber on transum.

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Apr 6th, '09, 06:03

Guys-

All the back and froth has been very helpful for me to figure out what materials to use, especially along the for the backing. I had considered 5/4 Azek, as well as plastic material for the bottom backer. From the feedback and my "back yard" tests, I am going with the 5/4 Azek (much easier to work with and cheaper than the industrial plastic i had found.)

Thanks all....this has really helped!

gplume · Post by **gplume** » Apr 6th, '09, 06:07

BTW...Tony your additonal questions has helped clear up a few questions that I had. Since I am still working on this, I had not decided which way to go, but now I have an idea on what to do.

randall · Post by **randall** » Apr 6th, '09, 16:35

tony....i use an industrial strength velcro i get at the lumber yard. i use it for all kinds of things from reuseable cardboard boxes for my art work to attaching the work to the base. what i always do is cut the two (male and female) pieces and stick them together then put them where i want them to live. they are adhesive backed and when you separate the two sides the velcro sticks to each side and is in exactly the right place. i put about six 2 inch strips on the back of the lower splash boards on the wood backer strip that the screws used to go in . screw in the top and the velcro lines up automatically.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 6th, '09, 19:36

Bob

Any chance you have a picture or can describe the collector box. Sounds interesting.

Randall thanks I got it and I like the velcro idea.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 6th, '09, 20:56

picture taken in a terrible rainstorm.starboard side cutout not crooked just water driping making it look like a irregular cut.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 6th, '09, 21:26

Bob

Thanks. So wht you are doing is basically forcing all of the water to run to the stern and out.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '09, 07:22

exactly! backing down hard puts water completly over stern gunnel .all water runs out due to crown from center and cockpit taper from passagewat to stern.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '09, 08:00

tony there is also a 2" sealed gutter that run from engine box hatch to stern/port and starboard courner that allows the water to rush out those gemlux scuppers. tony this boat has race car steering and turns on a dime . i can run circles around the best center console this allows the boat to put bluefin/big eye along starboard side to be jerk in the boat with gin pole instead of ripping gash in meat with multible gaff trying to lift over gunnels.like i said we all fish in a differant ways. for me if it`s tuna i want it in the boat instant green or not i put towel over eyes and bleed this year i will have brewster teach me denerving.

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 7th, '09, 09:53

bob lico wrote:picture taken in a terrible rainstorm.starboard side cutout not crooked just water driping making it look like a irregular cut.

That looks good - but how did you tighten the nuts on the back of those cleats?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '09, 11:19

you could pick the entire boat up and hang off those two cleats from a crane!!!!

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Apr 7th, '09, 12:49

The bolts that hold those cleats on are screwed into a threaded plate attached to the stern wall.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '09, 15:42

skipper dick you wound not belive the effort.five eight hour days and 400.00 in material plus i used solid forged cleates. generaly speaking my life or one of the crew lifes depends on those cleats.were do you suppose the bitter end of the flygaff line goes? or better yet the bitter end of the tail rope!!! not to smart trying to hold back a bluefin giant with the line around your arms!

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Apr 7th, '09, 16:07

Bob, I know one thing for sure and that is you are correct about lifting the boat by those cleats. When I replaced my side and stern panels a couple of years ago, I decided to replace the cleats also. The new cleats did not have the same bolt pattern, so I had to drill that 1/4 inch plate and tap it for the bolts that hold the cleats.

Those two plates are probably the strongest part of my B28. By the way, you do good work.

Dick

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 7th, '09, 21:06

Bob

Any suggestions for making the gutter system? Are you using 1/2 plywood glassed in or are you using something else like Coosa Board?

JeremyD · Post by **JeremyD** » Apr 7th, '09, 21:31

Mine were installed with screws and bolts with locking washers. No aluminum threaded locking plate. I had to contort my hand back there with a wrench to hold the nuts - that's why I asked.

I had to put the center panel in last

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bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Apr 7th, '09, 22:34

tony thats a tuff question to answer. i started with a "belly band" around perimeter of cockpit.that is a 3" wide piece of coosa tie into outside stringers and hull side.now lay a piece of 1/2" azak with 3m4000 uv.this meets the cockpit floor but sit 3/8" lower forming a gutter next to the hull under the gunnels (no cockpit panels on port and starboard just stern)the cockpit froor is about 7/8" thick.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 8th, '09, 20:15

Bob

Thanks, that is along the lines I was thinking. I looked at your earlier picture and now its clear.

bertram31.com

Azek thickness recomendations

Azek thickness recomendations

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