Nah Nah Nanni

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 23rd, '08, 19:56

I just heard through the jungle telegraph that the pair of Nannis being touted (by Nanni) as the "TSL power of the future" that were installed on a test basis in one of the TSL boats lasted one year with nothing but trouble and both have been removed and replaced with Detroit Iron......Me, the Minister de Pollo and Gail Culp fished on that boat a few days last June and the engines are garbage in my opinion, and in the opinion of the gentleman who oversees maintaince down there on 15 B31s that total about 30,000 hours a year. The reason we only fished on the boat a few days is because it was broke down the rest of the time and we used another boat with 4-53s. One of the Nannis blew a hole in the exhaust manifold at 1,200 hours, the other had some major problem soon thereafter....constant crap and apparently the service advice was very, well, very French.....they attempted to treat my buddy the maintaince director like he was a kluck from a 3d world country....those of you that have met him know way better than that.

Anyway, much to my pleasure the Nannis proved worthless in real world service. Plus I didn't find them any quieter than the trusted 4-53s. Just bring earplugs.

UV

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 23rd, '08, 20:05

Detroit Iron??! ! ! ......HUMMMMMMM.........AMERICAN made and still running strong

Man ! ! ! It feels good to say that ! ! !

Harry

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Dec 24th, '08, 06:54

Having never been to TSL, I can't comment on the maintenance the boats were getting but it seems to me that the basic most simplist of engines would be the choice for power in an environment such as that.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 24th, '08, 10:49

All of their boats have them. They have a few "extras" and an inventory of parts. The guys are really good. We've seen them do major work at the dock and have the boat back out on the water in 1-2 days. Walter

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Dec 24th, '08, 11:45

Is there any news on the 31's with the Nannies up on the east coast? I heard that there was a handful with the 320's and a couple with the 200's.
Thanks.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 24th, '08, 15:39

Bruce - I'd say their maintaince rivals anywhere in the world. They have 16 B31s; one has Yannie 170s and one had the Nannies at about the same hp...the rest have Detroit 4-53 naturals with the governors set at about 100 hp....it's sort of like Southwest Airlines that flies all Boeing 737s....makes upkeep easy. As Walter says, TSL has a huge parts inventory and 6 or 8 spare 4-53s in shrink wrap ready to go as well as several overhauled gears. Their warehouse is like toyland to us B31 people....every part for the engines, gears, boats....plus an electrical shop, a canvas shop, a paint shop, and full boatyard with a marine railroad, a full machine shop with first class milling machines, lathes, etc., a woodworking shop (they build boats there plus most of the furniture), a fiberglass shop, a glass shop, a welding shop where they build their half towers, fighting chair frames, can anodize on the spot, you name it they have it, plus refirgeration shops, etc to keep the landside operations going.

Carlos Alvarez is the head of maintaince for the marine and land operations and his genius is that he just makes it all happen on a daily basis. His mechanics can fix anything quickly....they can pull a boat on the railway at one of the two high (12 foot) tides they have a day and change out an engine and gear in two hours. They can roll an A-frame down the 500 foot dock and pick an engine up in a boat, jerk the gear off, take it apart and change bearings or such and slap it back together lickety split rather than wait for high tide to pull it. They have dozens of props hanging up...did I mention they have a prop shop?? The most amazing place I have ever seen when you realize it is 100 miles from the nearest road and about 135 N.M. by water from Panama City and what can be flown in is limited by the 2400 foot airstrip a few miles away.

I guess my point is I don't know of another place that runs that large a fleet of offshore boats that hard that has the kind of staff and facility waiting to service the boats every day. There is a night shift that cleans, fuels, oils, and reprovisions the boats overnight. Most of the boats run six days a week from 6:30 am until about 3:30 pm ten months a year. Carlos keeps meticulous computer records on each engine on a daily basis. The boats use about 550 gallons of diesel a day on average and the two big Cat generators about 150....they store 20,000 gallons of diesel on site plus a couple thousand gallons of gasoline for the outboards, lawn mowers, etc. Most all supplies are brought in from Panama City on their two supply boats.

How do they do it??? The minimum wage in Panama is 88 cents an hour. TSL pays their people more than that and some of the higher ups like the boat captains are the elite of the local community....every person working there, all 120 or so of them, seem to love their job since there is no other industry in that part of Panama. A job at TSL is a primo deal and there is virtually no turnover in personnel.

The place is facinating.

UV

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 24th, '08, 16:21

i couldnt agree more....i made a few incursions into the local population on my own and was invited to stay or visit as long as i liked.....cant say i didnt think about it. a bunch of the staff that actually have to deal direct with the tourists are from the city and have famlies there. they just live in pinas a few weeks at a time...talk about a good gig. these are the friendliest people you will find anywhere.......life can be so simple.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 24th, '08, 17:27

What I thought was interesting, the captains and deck hands attend a school run by TSL where they them teach English. From like 5-7 every week day, they run a tight schedule getting up like at 3 AM every day.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 24th, '08, 17:32

Someone I met in Bolivia (he's from Columbia) last year used to work at TSL. He said they didn't pay enough so he left. But he liked it except for the pay.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 24th, '08, 18:55

andre...thats the discrepancy between the indians who are from pinas and the guys from the rest of the country that work there....growing up fishing naked from a dugout and hunting with a spear is bound to give you a different perspective.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 25th, '08, 00:11

They are all happy people, a pleasure to be around.

Oh for the simple life, randall.

The IRS called yesterday to tell my business was being audited for '07 and ended the call with a "Happy Holidays", said she would've sent a letter but her laptop is "broke". Could've waited 'till after Christmas,huh?, thanks. I'm going to get an Obama sign and put it up in my parking lot to help my chances. Just a feeling..........

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 25th, '08, 00:20

Andre
A guy that I worked for 25 years ago tells the story about being audited......he says that he just put everything in grocery bags, totally disorganized and jumbled up, and presented it to the auditor.

Shortly his bags of papers were returned to him and he was dismissed.

I learned a big lesson from my encounters with OSHA.......DON'T be overly cooperative......it's not in your favor.

They are the police.........make them do their job.....and don't make it easy for them.

Harry

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Dec 25th, '08, 00:34

Harry, I think those days are gone.They tell you specifically what they want now. Giving them all that would not be good.
What you doin' up late Xmas? Done w/the grandkids like me?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 25th, '08, 09:26

AndreF wrote:What you doin' up late Xmas? Done w/the grandkids like me?

I took a short nap before going to late evening Christmas Mass. Once I get a short nap I will be up for hours......snooze thru the 6:00 PM news and I'll be up till 2:00 AM

My most tramatic experience with government organizations, as I have already stated, was with OSHA.

I tried to be very cooperative, thinking that if I cooperated the field agent would give me a list of problem areas......I would be given the chance to correct the problem......and everyone lives happily ever after.

WRONG ! ! !

All I actually did was give him every thing he needed to give me a citation that started at $25K.........after hours of begging followed by hours of heated debates and visits to the Area Director it only costed me $4500.00

I may go to jail if they ever come in again

Harry

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 25th, '08, 09:57

im fighten em at the moment......they challenged an IRA contribution....so i sent all the paperwork proving i made it......nope we need form XYZ from the bank.....of course banks been out of business for two years but i did manage through persistence to actually come up with form XYZ. now i get a letter telling me they are "considering it".

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Dec 25th, '08, 12:07

Can't comment on the TSL nanni's; but the guys I know who have them love them. One boat a 31B ran on it's own bottom from NJ to Costa Rica. It was the 4 banger model. He seatrilaed the boat and headed south. The owner said she cruises at 23-24 kts. I think I posted the seatrail info a couple of years ago. The other is the 6 banger. The marine cooling add-ons are all french. Maybe they will or maybe they will not hold up. Seems to me though all engine manufactures have suffered similar fates. Some bugs need to surface and be cured. I think yanamar has changed designs on marine cooling lots of times. Some of those early engines had 6 or 7 zincs and that was on the freashwater side. That is all bad (design).

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Dec 25th, '08, 13:11

Yanmars cooling systems have not changed. Zincs were and are always in the raw water side.

Like any engine maker they are only as good as the maintenance done to them.

Early Volvo had many cooling and heating problems which is what contributed to their bad reputations.

The Yanmar issues came up when Pasco the surveyor and legend in his own mind claimed that the dissimilar metals led to catastropic failures including those his own father experienced.

While the more dissimilar metals are not necessarily the best way to go, keeping the zincs up and the bad wiring down are the key along with good maintenace to keep em running.

The only cooling system failures I've experineced in the Yanmar line are ones where the system is ignored for hundreds or thousands of hours.

While some engines are more forgiving of less maintenance, that's not exactly the best example of a good engine design.

Sailboaters are the most prone for lack of maintenance.
I just worked on a pair of Yanmar saildrives who's 1800 hours showed very little maintenance including never changing the drive oil. riser or cleaning out the heat exchanger.

Owner opted to ignore my concerns.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Dec 25th, '08, 15:57

Hey Bruce you bit. Of course they were on the raw water side; but the need for 6 shows a very bad design. Way too much aluminum in the cooling system. Yanmar did change the design on those early or maybe they just discontinued the engine. That is one way to correct a bad design; but it sure leaves the owners with a pile of crap. My old 3208 cats have only one zinc on the exchanger. The motors are 24 years old and everything is original except the hoses and the head gaskets.
Merry Christmas

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 26th, '08, 08:32

I'm not sure one would consider TSL real world service.

A crack 4-53 mechanic is not the same breed as todays service tech for a Nanni, Yanni or any other new fangled motor. I can only compare to my machines, where I can get pretty much get any of my manual machines back online one way or another in relatively short time. I can rip apart the machines, find the physical problem then, rebuild, repair or replace the offending part slap it back together and get it up and running again. Now take one of the automated, computerized machines. The first few years I had them if something went wrong the machine was down until a service call was made. No broken or worn parts to find, just a cabinet full of computer boards, switchs and relays. I think with new technology there is much less a mechanic can do unless they have been trained or just been around them long enough to get up to speed, no disrespect for the mechanic, it's just a different animal. Hell my dad can't even adjust the idle on his Steyrs unless I go down to the boat with my laptop.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 26th, '08, 09:10

which is why i like old things. but they are still ....real world...just old. i think the champ was my 55 chevy pick up....two radiator hoses and six plug wires.........and that was it. PFS

its hard to argue with engines that run 8 hours a day 10 months a year.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Dec 26th, '08, 09:56

Sim - the Nannis at TSL (4 bangers) are mechanical controlled engines, no electronics at all as I recall. My point was that whatever engines TSL uses, they are going to get absolutely first class maintaince on a daily basis, probably much better than we maintain our own boats. If they don't last at TSL, thay ain't gonna last anywhere. So far they have gotten pretty good service out of the one boat with Yannies (also mechanical 4 banger) but they use about 30% more fuel than the DD 4-53s which is a big deal down there. TSL only needs about 18-20 kts since they don't go far and seldom are the sea conditions such they can't run wide open. Their boats are very light compared to most FB SF models, I'd guess somewhere under 10k #. The 4-53s give them about 20 kts WOT (the 4-53 boats don't have tachs, wide open is running speed but controlled by the governor to about 100 hp vs. the stock 4-53 NA at 140 hp). When they get toward the end of the time between overhaul cycle the engines smoke a good bit and only make about 17....you can really hear them labor up a swell vs. the "spring chicken" motors that are a lot peppier....tach, who needs a tach? The 4-53s have been out of production for many years and the only issue is parts availability, mostly small parts like governors and gasket sets.

UV

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 26th, '08, 11:35

Vicroy wrote:Sim - the Nannis at TSL (4 bangers) are mechanical controlled engines, no electronics at all as I recall. My point was that whatever engines TSL uses, they are going to get absolutely first class maintaince on a daily basis, probably much better than we maintain our own boats. If they don't last at TSL, thay ain't gonna last anywhere. UV

That may be the problem...an overly complicated, highly taxed, mechanical systems that requires specialized care and upkeep. Which I guess proves your point.

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Dec 28th, '08, 16:26

Just for the record, Yanmar only has copper cores, bronze castings and rubber hoses in the raw water side of the cooling system. No dissimilar metals there. It is the freshwater side that includes an aluminum exhaust manifold which is why the coolant maintenance is so important.

Eddy G.

scot · Post by **scot** » Dec 28th, '08, 23:39

I have said this before; for folks operating in middle earth, the little DD engines are going to be extremely difficult to replace.

Personally if they want to get parts for the next 20 years, they should move onto the 371. The 71 series parts are MUCH easier to come by than 53 series, the engines are basically the same HP, 453=212cu in, 371=213 cu in. The engines can be set up for any HP rating between 100-225 (add injectors, turbo. etc) Only downside is the 371 is a couple of hundred pounds heavier.....BUT at 2300 rpm vs 2800. it won't damage the ears as bad! Also, the 71 series parts are more robust and they are typically not near as "dirty" as the 53 series.

Because they ALL use the same pistons, sleeves, rods, bearings & accessories as the 671 & 471, parts are cheap and plentiful.

That's the engine I'm currently building for my single diesel 25 Bert. A 371TA 225hp. Stewart & Stevenson has worked closely with me on the build. I'm currently fitting all the various components, once it's all lined out...I'll rebuild it. Here's the little guy at the house. As you can tell by the photo they are about the same size as the 453's.

bertram31.com

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