In the Market for a 31!

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 17:07

Just sold my 25' bertram out in Hawaii and will be getting stationed back in the states! I am going to start looking around for a 31'! My question is what are the differences in year boats? Any other suggestions? What are the major upgrades to be looking for? Unfortunately cant afford a SeaNile, Buddy Boy, etc.. but would love to get one and spend a few years getting it up to that caliber boat!

THANKS,

ANDY

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Dec 7th, '08, 17:23

if your looking for a bahiamar mines for sale. my 4 girls.its listed with capt pat, under listing

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Dec 7th, '08, 17:28

Any of the years have plenty of glass. The later the boat generally the lighter the hull and the more fuel in the tank.
By the mid 70's Bertram had made the final design changes to the lifting strakes, these are considered by most to be the driest and best performing hulls. All of the B31 hulls are designed ahead of their time. I don't know if most of us could tell the difference.

Look for a later hull because of the gelcoat crazing issues associated with the earlier hulls. If you can find a late model hull with diesel power over 250 hp per side you'll be a happy camper.

Depending on where state side you'll end up the East Coast is chock full of B31's for sale in varying condition. Have fun and good luck.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 17:53

I am from Alabama (GulfCoast) and will be stationed near that area. When did they stop putting helm stations in the cabin (only want 1 set of controls)! Are there any differences with engine compartment dimensions on the later vs earlier years? When you say late 70s are we talking about after 75? What was the last years the 31s were built? Thanks for the info

-ANDY

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Dec 7th, '08, 17:55

There are essentially 4 models. Bahia Mar, Flybridge Cruiser, Sportsfisherman and Express Cruiser. Based on how you like to fish and live (on board), here is how I've looked at them. All are great boats. The Bahia Mar and Express Cruiser (no flybridges) are the easiest boats to run alone as you run them basically from the cockpit. Both have standup heads which women usually prefer. Visibility ie: lobster pots, logs, etc., less than on a flybridge model. Express Cruiser has you standing a bit higher as you are on the engine box. The classic is the Flybridge cruiser which has the enclosed back. Standup head, lockable, air conditionable. If you are in the least claustrophobic, the Sportsfisherman might be considered as it has an open back with rolldown canvas for sealing up when you go home or live on board. The tradeoff is the head in the sportsfisherman is between the V-berths, under the V-berth filler.
All models come with gas or diesel engines. In the USA the introduction of Ethanol has created major engine problems due to the fact that Ethanol has been found to dissolve and delaminate our fiberglass tanks. At least in pre 1980 models. If you're looking at gas engined boats, make sure you have aluminum tanks in the boat. As far as diesels go, Cummins B series and Yanmars seem to be the most popular. If you're choosing one or the other, look into the availability of service capabilities nearby.
When it comes to age, you will find the older models (the 60's) seem to be much heavier hulls as at that time they didn't know how much fiberglass was enough so they opted for more rather than less. Based on the roughness of the waters you may ply, you might opt for heavier over lighter, but that's a subject that can be argued for hours, if not longer. Hope this was of some help. I'm sure our other Bertram 31 bretheren can (and will) chime in on the plusses and minuses of each. Most everyone swears by what he owns. Welcome back! Walter

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:14

Last fishing trip on my 25'! We had a double header the other fish broke the leader at the end of the fight! This was the second fish we reeled in so he was not revivable! All on light tackle and 8 ft seas! But here in Hawaii youput the baits out when you leave the jetties!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:22

Are you sure you want to leave Hawaii?

Not all 31's came through with the lower station. That was an option. On a Fly Bridge Cruiser or Sprotfisherman model, its tough to see over the bow when running from down there, but depending on how you plan to use and type of weather you may want to look for one with it. I think you will find more without it.

Like JP said, look for a diesel with at least 250 or more a side. Plenty around at good prices. Just be carefull of any coming out of the Gulf after the Hurricanes. Make sure they haven't been under water.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:22

Thanks, I am leaning towards the Flybridge model (closed in bulkhead). In Hawaii I believe the open MODEL is better because the temp is always wonderful and a nice breeze. Back home (Alabama) on a humid 95 deg day on the Gulf I think It would be nice to suck up some a/c even if it is tight quarters! When does this whole extra glass theory start and stop (1960-1969) or what? Are we talking 1000lbs or a couple 100lbs?

Thanks,

ANDY

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:26

Hell no! I would love to stay in Hawaii! But being back in the states will put me and my family closer to our families! I was stationed in Hawaii for 3 years and spent maybe 1 actual year in hawaii! But you better believe I made the best of it by getting a 25' shipped out and fishing it usually 2 times a week when I was here!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:27

The thickness of the glass changed in 1973. Its a pretty good differance. My 1975 FBC carries 220 gallons of fuel and Bertram lists the boat at 10,000lbs. I have never weighed it so I can not attest to that, but a mid 60's FBC will weigh closer to 15,000 but only has 175 gallons unless the tank was changed. The size of the tank changed somewhere around 1972.

No matter which one you get, the hulls are pretty much bullet proof. They just ride a little different and the lighter models will cruise a little faster than the heavier ones with the same engines.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:33

That is great info! So the actual design and strength are the same just more weight?

Thanks

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 7th, '08, 18:51

I am in Fairhope Alabama
What part of the Gulf Coast are you from....or returning to....

Harry Babb

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 19:00

I am from Bay Minette! Spent all my life in Baldwin County (LOVE IT) until college in Tuscaloosa (Roll Tide)! And then off to the ARMY and god knows where all they have sent me! I will be stationed at Ft. RuckeR being a flight instructor for the UH-60 Blackhawk school!

-ANDY

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 7th, '08, 19:27

Andy,

I'm guessing that I picked the right face for your avatar. Just picked the one that looked most like a pilot...

I had 2 Cobras buzz my place a couple of days ago and take a closer look at the B31 I'm working on. Got waves from both crews. Last year it one lone Blackhawk. Did the same flyby & wave. Get pairs of Talons zipping over on a regular basis. Not sure which base they're flying out of, but I'm on their training flight path.

Good luck in your quest & welcome home.

Br,

Patrick

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Dec 7th, '08, 19:52

Hello Andy,

I have a 1967/B31 FBC in Pensacola totally refurbished w/ 250hp turbo-charged Cummins 6bta's w 130hrs on totally reman engines, ZF220a gears, 300 gal fuel, AC 12,000 btu cruise-air unit w/ 5.5 Next-Gen, full Marlin Tower, Rupp-riggers, Murray Brothers fighting chair, loaded with electronics.

Or if you want another B25 w/ brand new Cummins 4bta w/ new Mer-IO install will need some fixin-up on the hull to creampuff it but has new engines w/IO's, O-HRS still has full factory warranty on engines if your interested, just let me know what your favor is and I can send some pictures to you with my cell # to call me if your wanting to see them when you get to the Gulf Coast.

Regards,
Doug

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 20:07

Thats me! Yeh most helicopter pilots like to have a good time while out flying ! I have never flown the cobra but have seen it in action overseas! It is one hell of a gunship!

-ANDY

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 20:10

Doug-

I will be flying out of Hawaii on the 15Jan. Should be feet dry in Alabama by the 17JAN.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 7th, '08, 20:18

welcome home you make us proud i am sure i speak for all the bertram brothers.

randall · Post by **randall** » Dec 7th, '08, 21:12

hey...good on you. nice to see a fish like that and a 25 in the same picture. one thing is for sure....its a great time to buy a boat.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 7th, '08, 21:19

Andy

They are pretty much the same hull wise. Some changes over the years in the lifting strakes and engine box size. Depends on what engines was put in at the factory. The interiors changed slightly over the years, but from the outside they look pretty much the same.

Good luck and safe trip home. I am sure you will find the one that is right for you.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Dec 7th, '08, 21:38

Boy ! ! ! ! You Bay Minette people really get around. When my son Chris graduated from trade school he and I went on a diving trip that departed from Fort Meyers and went to the Dry Tortugas. It was a 3 day live aboard trip.

One day we docked and departed from the boat to visit Fort Jefferson. One of the park rangers met us and while leading the tour she asked where we were from. Chris told her that she probably never heard of our little town but that we are from Fairhope Alabama. The young lady burst into laughter and told us that she was from Bay Minette Alabama......its such a small world.

When you get back to Alabama and settled in give me a shout.
251-928-5291....or give me a shout here in our sand box.

Harry

Frank Hermann · Post by **Frank Hermann** » Dec 7th, '08, 21:50

:) Andy, I just happened to come across your interest in getting a 31. Mine is for sale ,buy not yet listed on this web site. I am a member of bertram31.com, so this is not a hoax.Please feel free to contact me thru fhermann@optonline.net if interested.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 7th, '08, 22:06

Harry-

I will definitely get in touch! The locals out here put there boat names across the front which is ugly as HELL! But I figured since I was here I would do the same thing in order to try to be a little more "accepted" by the locals! Anyhow, I had "ANNIE C., BAY MINETTE, AL" across the front! On 3 different occasions out here in Hawaii I had people from our local area in Alabama flag me down to tell me they were from somewhere in Baldwin County.

Small World

thanks

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 7th, '08, 22:35

Andy- to answer your question about lower helm station: the f/b sportfisherman has the lower station, the f/b cruiser does not have one.
Good luck

Kingfish · Post by **Kingfish** » Dec 7th, '08, 23:27

Andy,

Thank you for your service and a big welcome home!

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Dec 8th, '08, 09:26

CaptPatrick wrote:Andy,

I'm guessing that I picked the right face for your avatar. Just picked the one that looked most like a pilot...

I had 2 Cobras buzz my place a couple of days ago and take a closer look at the B31 I'm working on. Got waves from both crews. Last year it one lone Blackhawk. Did the same flyby & wave. Get pairs of Talons zipping over on a regular basis. Not sure which base they're flying out of, but I'm on their training flight path.

Good luck in your quest & welcome home.

Br,

Patrick

capt pat- ever have thier fuel fisheye the paint? Happened to me once!

I dont think it has been mentioned here- but dont look for the heavier hull thinking its a better boat, the thickness of the hull is not a factor with these boats, a heavier hull will just mean more fuel consumption.

if you are going to restore the boat and the boat you find is original factors that would sway me would be the condition of the gelcoat, fuel tank, and engines.

joeh · Post by **joeh** » Dec 8th, '08, 10:18

Andy,

Congrats on the potential upgrade. Here is the link to an old brochure that gives origional specs if you want to see visuals of the different models.

http://bertram31.com/articles/b31_72broch.pdf

Joe

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 8th, '08, 14:06

Looks like the brochure is dated 1/69?

If so 1969 and > models are weighing in at appox. 9600 lbs with gas engines? Is that correct?

-ANDY

joeh · Post by **joeh** » Dec 8th, '08, 14:28

I didn't catch that date. The guy who gave it to me said 71/72. I am not sure of the weights.

amuh60 · Post by **amuh60** » Dec 8th, '08, 14:43

I was looking at the very last page where it has copy right 1/69. Sounds like everyone was saying that up until 72-73 the boats were weighing in close to 15000lbs but if the date and specs on your brochure are correct it sounds like around 1/69 they were 9600lbs. Anyhow, I appreciate the brochure it gives me a lot a details I was looking for. Now if I can figure out when these hulls actually got lighter!

THANKS,

ANDY

steve miller · Post by **steve miller** » Dec 8th, '08, 14:51

Andy,
Don't worry too much about the year B31 you look at. My '62 F.B.C. (which HAD a lower station) Cruised at 25 knots W/Yanmar 230s. There are plenty of 31s around....cheap! Good luck!

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Dec 8th, '08, 15:53

amuh60 wrote:I was looking at the very last page where it has copy right 1/69. Sounds like everyone was saying that up until 72-73 the boats were weighing in close to 15000lbs but if the date and specs on your brochure are correct it sounds like around 1/69 they were 9600lbs. Anyhow, I appreciate the brochure it gives me a lot a details I was looking for. Now if I can figure out when these hulls actually got lighter!

THANKS,

ANDY

Andy - My dad had two 31's while I was growing up, a F/B SF and a F/B cruiser, both with gas and both weighed about 10,000 lbs. The Bahia Mar with Yan Mar diesels being built now will come in just about the same. 15000 seems really heavy.

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Dec 8th, '08, 17:32

Andy,

Here's my cell # 850-525-6126 when you get settled in, early models 31's were about 2,000 lbs heavier thru 1970, then anything after 1970 were lighter because, they finally fiqured out how strong fiberglass was, the hulls are damn-near bulletproof.

But 15,000 lbs is a little extreme, mine weighs in with 300gals of deisel fuel and full marlin tower & fighting chair under 13,000. Most owners don't even know that there hulls are two pieces put together with a top plate put on last, but there has NEVER been one come apart.

R,
DQ

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Dec 8th, '08, 18:08

Most owners don't even know that there hulls are two pieces

Doug,

The B31 hull isn't a 2 piece construction... This myth pops up about every couple of years.

The hull mold is a two piece tool that was bolted together down the centerline from bow to stern. This was necessary because of the tumble home and chine design. There would be no way to pull the B31 design from the top of the mold. The mold, after laid up, stringers added, and cured, was un-bolted and removed from the hull laterally.

Because of the line left in the gelcoat from the joint of the mold halves, it looked somewhat like two half hulls were fiberglassed together. But that certainly wasn't the case.

The B31 hull, and for that matter, all fiberglass boat hulls, are laid up as a single part. The B31 hull mold was fixtured so that it could be rocked from one side to the other. The glass crew would rotate the mold so that one side was almost facing the shop floor. they would lay one course of fiberglass on the "down side", overlapping past the center line. Then they would rotate the mold in the opposite direction and do a course on the other side, again overlapping the center line.

Working back and forth in this manner, the entire hull was laid up as a single part. The overlapping center line fully ties & cross locks the two lay ups. This is the reason that the centerline can be as much as twice as thick than the rest of the hull. The overlapped centerline on an early 60s model could be as much as 1 1/2" thick...

Br,

Patrick

Capt. DQ · Post by **Capt. DQ** » Dec 8th, '08, 18:49

Thanks Capt. Patrick,

I stand corrected, I probaly mis understood the person @ bertram years ago about that, when I was taking all the old bottom paint off in 1986 about that piece of fiberglass tape on the bottom of the centerline at that time. But I was correct about the hull weights, right ?

R,
DQ

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Dec 8th, '08, 19:18

My 62 Express (laid up in Dec of 61) came in at 14,400 with a full 160 gallons of fuel a few years back. That is if you can trust the scale on the travel lifts.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 8th, '08, 22:09

I pulled out the price list and specs from my boat. Believe it or not it was printed in Oct. of 74 and our boat is a 75 hull # BERG1467-315. The weight which they list as approximate was 10,600 lbs. For a comparison, the silver anniversary model which I also have the specs for came in at the same weight. Everything is identical except the price. The base price before add ons with the 350 Big Blocks in 75 came in at $33,600 and the 210 cummins was $48,400 and the 225 cats were $56,000.

The Silver Anniversary edition listed at $108,000 with 340 Mercs.

I still have the bill of sale from our boat. Purchsed August 1975. Basic boat with 350 Mercs was $32,600. When all was said and done the total was $38,910 and we paid $36,720 after an hour of back and forth.

Not cheap in 75, but work that out over how many years and its cheap compared to another boat that would be laying in the graveyard by now.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Dec 9th, '08, 11:15

I don't know the exact weight of my '66 FBC with 440 Chryslers, but I had it on a friends 10,000lb trailer without seeming to fully load the trailer suspension!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 9th, '08, 15:24

tony that seems to make some sense phoenix is berg 1301-315 built april 15 1973 and was oem with 210 cummins.i allways wanted to do a survey concerning the fuel tank.my tank is clearly marked 4/15/73 and 231 gallon.i wonder if the gas models were 220gal. and the diesel 231gal.we have a 1972 fbc in the yard with mercs. 170gal so the change in tanks was about november of 1972.they must have made two tanks at least in 1973 one for gas and one for diesel.my bert weights in at 9400 lbs empty.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Dec 9th, '08, 16:04

Bob,

I am pretty sure my original fiberglass tank in a 1977 gas boat was 231 gallons with 220 as usable.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 9th, '08, 16:39

craig does it say 220 usable on the tank label or are you just going by the normal deduction of the average pickup 1" off the bottom??

bobfioresi · Post by **bobfioresi** » Dec 9th, '08, 19:02

Andy; I have 62 express cruiser that is in nice shape for sale. She has a marlin tower with controls in addition to controls in the lage cockpit. It is fighting lady yellow and has the same interior layout as a fly bridge' it has a new 233 gsl.SS gas tank and has a pair of 440 chryslers with 60 hrs on 1 and 0 on the other. It's in LI ny .39,000 iF INTERESTED CALL ME AT 631 668 4064. tHE DOCUMENT SHEET SAYS IT WEIGHS 9 TONS. pREVIOS OWNERS HAD 2 FLYBRIDGE 31'S AFTER MINE AND SAID NOTHING RODE LIKE MINE THE 31'S HE HAD WERE NEWER.pS I DOCK 3 SLIPS AWAY FROM WALTER IF YOU NEED AN OPINION BOB

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 9th, '08, 22:12

Bob

The specifications I have for our 75 and for the silver anniversary model says capacity is 220. I thought at one point they did have a 230 gal. tank but I have never come across one.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 9th, '08, 23:06

mine label glassed in rear of tank in clearly marked 231gal fuel 4/15/73

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 9th, '08, 23:08

Bob

Mine said 220 in a 75. Strange they would bounce the size of the tank around so much.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 9th, '08, 23:13

btw it was a bitch getting that huge bronze fitting off the tank.i replaced fuel level with isspro brand sender and fuel pickup with raceboat style with triple valves to port eng.star eng..and gen.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Dec 10th, '08, 18:02

tony we just received a 31 bertram fbc in the oakdale yard. i will check it out tommorow 12/10 72 wow that is only 4 months earlier then mine should be interesting.i will give you the exact tank label reading.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Dec 10th, '08, 21:57

My tag is now unreadable after being exposed to the elements during this repower. But it had 220 gallons marked on it but nothing about 230. I guess I will find out when I finish this up and put her in the spring since the tank is now empty.

Craig Mac · Post by **Craig Mac** » Dec 11th, '08, 09:41

Bob,

Regarding gas tank capacity--As you know I replaced may tank and I don't remember what the tag read.

I checked my owners manual and the data sheet in the front where they type in the serial # also has 231 gallons typed in.

Going through the manual--in the fuel system section the printed pages show 220 gallons and the diagram has the tank labeled as 220.

In the sales brochure it lists 220, but in a 1979 price list & specifications it indicates 222.

It also seems counter intuitive to have a larger tank on diesel boats that have the more efficient motors.

The sales brochure shows cruising range for gas as 235-250 miles and for diesel as 375-420 depending on the motors installed.

I also remember (not 100%) seeing a tag on someone's tank that stated 220 as useable. I also don't think Bertram would spend the $ for two molds that have such a small difference. I was hoping else with a tagged tank would confirm this one way or another.

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