Cummins B210 won't start

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 14th, '08, 16:07

I was warming up the stbd engine before changing the oil. After a couple minutes it started to sputter, I briefly got a non-alarm buzzing sound and it died. Changed the fuel filters and vented the pump, still won't start. I guess I'll bleed the lines next. (When I turn the key I get a click @ the engine so I'm guessing my solenoid is working).

Here's my question(s). At some point, I forget if it was before or after, I pulled the top off my stbd Racor 500MA without shutting off the fuel at the tank. When I looked in it was only maybe 2/3 to 3/4 full. Aren't they usually full to the top? Think poppin' the top could have been enough to get air in the line?

Its always something. I could plan to pull the boat in August and something would break and the temperature would plummet to 30.

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Nov 14th, '08, 16:27

SteveZ,

I have gassers, but if I don't have a full filter of fuel, I just suck air. My Racors suck from the top, so if it's not full, bingo, no ignition. I'd just make sure the filters are full to the top. In fact I cary a small fuel can with a half gallon of fuel in it to do just that in case the filter gets some air in it . That's happened when I didn't quite get the spinoff tight enough and it vibrated or worked itself loose.

I have Racors in the hold and water separators on the engines.

Just filler up and see if that doesn't make a difference. I've forgotten to turn the fuel valve back on when changing a filter and it has sucked itself dry.

Dick

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Nov 14th, '08, 16:40

Steve,

Does the motor turn over, no start? If not it may be a battery.

Recenly my boat was unplugged for about a week and one motor wouldn't turnover, just click. After about 3hrs on the charger it's working again.

Other than that I'd say bleed the lines to be sure no air at all.

good luck and work quick next week highs are in the low 40's.

-JohnD

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 14th, '08, 16:51

John, It turns over fine. I get the click when I turn the key to the on position but don't crank the starter. My assumption is that the click is the solenoid turning the fuel on. I'll bleed the lines tomorrow and hope for the best. Low of 25 on Tuesday, what a kick in the 'nads! -Steve

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 14th, '08, 17:45

Diesels with air in the lines are often a bitch to start. Once done, the
problem is gone. Yes, you should have shut the valve before popping the top, but what's done is done. Bleed the lines, crack each injecter to make sure fuel is coming through. If she cranks and fuel is coming through, you should start. Consider it part of the ever continuing diesel learning process. I've long decided it's worth it. Walter

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Nov 15th, '08, 11:56

Like Walter said.. Crack the lines all of em
Lotta air
Wayne

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 15th, '08, 13:23

STeveZ, at least I'm not the only one who can't pull the boat without a hitch.

Last week I decided it would be best to bring boat around to the lift well
early before work, it was supposed to be nice. So I get down there for 5am and it's blistery cold and drizzling. Hit the ignition and only get a few turns on each engine. Wait a few minutes and get a few more turns, couple minutes later I get one to crank over, few minutes more and the other cranks up. I let them warm up a bit and it's now 6:30, figure I'd give a call into work as I am supposed to be in for 7, but decide call as I brought boat around. I release the ropes and as I remove the stern line my newly borrowed phone slips out of my shirt pocket and drops right into the water...only a foot away from where I dropped my phone a week or two earlier. As I approach the lift well dock it gets windy and really starts to rain. Tie up the boat and now I'm drenched, jump into the truck and try to boogey into work, but soon as I get out of the marina the traffic is backed up and not moving, the 15 minute ride took almost an hour. When I walk thru the door at work...it just went downhill from there.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 16th, '08, 12:44

You airlocked the engine. Once that happens you have to bleed it by the book or it won't start till March....

First, turn off the fuel valve at the tank. (2) fill the racor to the top and leave the top off; (3) open the little screw on the side of the boss the spin on fuel filter is screwed into - it's a tiny metric screw ; (4) manually pump the lever on the side of the fuel lift pump till you get clean, air bubble free diesel out from under the screw then tighten the screw; (5) refill the racor to the top; (6) crack each injector nut about two turns and crank the engine until clean diesel comes out from under the nuts - be careful not to let it squirt in your eyes....wrap a rag around the nuts works finel; (7) now fill the racor up again and replace the top tight and she should start. If you don't get a pop with full throttle in about 10 seconds, shoot some WD-40 into the air intake a try again. Use ether as a last resort.

Cummins B series are bitches if air locked. Any crack in the racor bowl will cause poor starting as will any leak in the fuel system...the whole system has to be 100% tight for instant starting.

UV

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 16th, '08, 17:50

Topped off the Racor, bled spin-on, bled the pump, cracked line one, cranked for 15 seconds and she started right up.

Now I just have to figure out how to winterize the engines. Access to both ends of the raw water inlet hose is a bear.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 16th, '08, 18:55

There is a fitting that replaces the top of your raw water strainer. It comes with a shut-off valve and a garden hose fitting. What I do is shut off the thru-hull intake, take off the top of the raw water strainer and replace with this other fitting. Connect a clear (so you can see it) hose to it and put the hose's other end into a plastic garbage can that contains 4-5 gallons of your antifreeze. Start your engine and gun it once or twice. Once you see the colored anti freeze running through the hose, look at your exhaust at the transom. I usually have someone there to signal me. Once you see colored anti-freeze coming out the exhaust, shut her down. Remove the hose connected strainer fitting and put back the original. Open up your thru hull fitting. Stuff some rags into your exhaust hole at the transom and you're done. If I am not mistaken that strainer fitting is sold as a "Shurflo". I found it among the small ads in the back of the boating books. You only need one.
If you can't find one, drain your sea strainer (leave your thru hull open). Go to the intake side of your raw water pump. Unclamp the hose and pull off. Buy several feet of equal diameter hose (doesn't have to be expensive stuff). Connect at the pump intake side and put the other end into the anti-freeze. Proceed as earlier described. I normally end the season, then change oil and filter per engine, leaving it with fresh stuff. I leave the Racor and spin-on alone until Spring, changing it then. If there are any fungi or bacteria that develop over the winter, they get thrown out before I run her. Hope this helps. Walter

Terry Frank · Post by **Terry Frank** » Nov 16th, '08, 20:15

I'm happy to be living in a place where the boat's in the water 12 months a year. Blue fin tuna is coming soon!

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 16th, '08, 21:00

you can use waterk method but make permanent crash valves with a tee in the raw water intake.winter time 5gallon can with 50/50 antifreeze thru short hose to crash valve.shut main valve open crash and start engine when anti.comes out exhaust your done.the rest of the boat season short hose into bilge------god forbid last resort.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Nov 16th, '08, 21:21

do you use fuel shut off before and after filter to isolate the filter?

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 17th, '08, 08:56

Bob,

My only fuel shut off is back at the tank. As long as I close it there filter changes aren't a problem but I'm sure to goose the throttle when starting afterwards.

My problem w/ winterization is that my intakes come through the hull w/ a 90 degree fitting and about 12" later disappear under my batteries. At the inlet to the water pump they emerge from behind a stringer for 6" max before attaching. The location of my batteries amidships makes working with the raw water inlet hose problematic. A crash valve next to, or possibly connected to the through-hulls sounds like a good idea.

For now my only option appears to be to disconnect at the through-hulls, attach flexible hose with an in-line fitting and fish the flexible hose up into a bucket.

Thanks all for the input.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 17th, '08, 09:29

Steve- You have no raw water strainers?

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 17th, '08, 09:55

Nope, just these wedge shaped strainers. Water enters through a hundred or so pinhole openings (lower right).

Here's the inlets. Normally most of this shot would be batteries. You can see the ledges attached to the stringer to the left and right of the picture.

I guess I could remove the batteries to get easier access to the inlet hoses and start the engines with jumper cables. Then think about crash valves in the spring.

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Nov 17th, '08, 10:30

Easiest way would be to pull off the intake screens and make a "straw" one end in the intake hole under the boat and the other in your winterizing agent- the pumps are self priming no issue there. suck up the 5 or 6 gallons of the pink stuff until the exhaust runs pink and call it a day.
Screens gotta come off for paint anyway why not take em off and store them in the winter (just remember where you put them).

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 17th, '08, 10:59

Put a tee and a valve in each of the rubber lines.

tds8268 · Post by **tds8268** » Nov 17th, '08, 12:14

Steve,

We have the same set-up, no strainers and the same water intakes. I simply take the hoses off the intakes and pour three gallons of 50/50 automotive antifreeze into each hose while the engine is running. I have done this dating back over 20 years and several boats and never had a problem here in OCMD.

Dan
www.finchasersportfishing.com

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 17th, '08, 12:40

tds8268 wrote:We have the same set-up, no strainers and the same water intakes.

Dan,
Do your batteries cover your intake hoses as well? I would be a lot easier if I could actually get in the bilge and had a little more exposed hose to work with. Do you use a funnel? a hose? or just pour it straight from the bottle?
Thanks,
Steve

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 17th, '08, 12:51

If you don't have a generator there, consider putting your batteries on a simple shelf on the outside of your engines as there is plenty of room there. Mine are 4D,s and fit fine, thus freeing up that bilge space and giving you accessibility to your intakes. Safer in case a hose goes, too. Walter

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 17th, '08, 14:48

Do you have room to replace the elbow with a tee and put another valve on top of that? then you can close the seacock and open the valve to pour antifreeze down it with a funnel.

tds8268 · Post by **tds8268** » Nov 17th, '08, 15:27

Steve,

My water intakes are just behind the trannies and my batteries, two 8-D's, are beteen the engines. My hoses run from the intakes under the engines to the raw water pump. I usually use a large funnel to pour the antifreeze into the water hose. If you can't get to the intake hoses without a lot of trouble consider just pulling the hose off the raw water pump and sticking on a few feet of any correct size hose to pour the antifreeze through. It's very easy for me to disconnect the hoses from my 210's so I would assume yours is about the same.

Dan

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 17th, '08, 16:13

Rawleigh wrote:Do you have room to replace the elbow with a tee and put another valve on top of that? then you can close the seacock and open the valve to pour antifreeze down it with a funnel.

I have plenty of room up and down so this seems like it would be the cleanest set up long term.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 17th, '08, 16:36

Steve: They make a tee that has a sweep like the elbow with the other port coming off of the sweep, sort of like a "y". It is a called a "street ell" I think. That would give you better flow back towards the engine for your intake water from the seacock.

Or this:

http://www.groco.net/08-scks-valves/08-sscv.htm

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Nov 17th, '08, 22:14

UV...

Just reread your post above and thought to some 6B owners a warning might be in order...

Some 6Bs have an electrical air preheater in the air intake system (Mine does, but I believe they were an option).. if the engine has this system.. NEVER squirt anything into the air intake. I was warned that ether will possibly cause an unpleasant explosion if it hits the hot electrical heating elements. I suspect other flammable stuff might also.

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Nov 18th, '08, 08:29

Just a reminder for you Cummins B owners. The shut off solenoid for your engine is an "energize to run" set up. It is not uncommon for the solenoid to not fully activate the shut off valve to the run position making it not start or start and not run normally. Check it first before you disassemble the whole fuel system.

Eddy G.

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Nov 22nd, '08, 16:28

Got 'em winterized today.

They pulled the boat late yesterday. Its been dropping into the 20's at night so I left the block warmers on overnight. The engine compartment was nice and warm when I arrived today.

Aside from having to run out to Home Depot for a hose fitting it went very smoothly. I ended up disconnecting the hoses at the inlet and connecting a clear 1-1/4" hose in-line. Primed my hose w/ a gallon of water and stuck it in a bucket w/ 4 gallons of pink stuff. Once the bucket was sucked nearly dry I cut the engine(s) and checked the bucket I'd placed under the exhaust. Eurika! Two gallons of pink stuff!

Removing the center deck section made access to and removal of the inlet hoses so much easier and simplified the whole process. In fact it went so well I'll probably forgo installation of crash valves after all.

Thanks to everyone for your input and insights, you guys always come through!

bertram31.com

Cummins B210 won't start

Cummins B210 won't start

Who is online