strange B31 in OZ

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jun 5th, '08, 13:11

I know the Aussie Bertrams are generally produced by Caribbean, and that some of the older ones actually have a Bertram name on them... But what is this:
http://www.boatservice.com.au/boats-for ... oat_id=310
It's not listed as a Caribbean as all of the other 'bertrams' are ( 24,26,35,37,44...) but rather as a Bertram 31. It obviously aint no B31, looks kinda like a B33...
Perhaps they took the B33 and scaled it down?

Nic?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 5th, '08, 13:25

That's a genuine Napier designed Bertram 30'... Very few built, basically a B28 on steroids & forerunner to the B35. ( only 3 production years 1983-1985)

Don't confuse with the later designed & manufactured 30' Moppie, which is an express model.

Br,

Patrick

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Jun 5th, '08, 13:32

Patrick,

Supposedly built in 1987...

D

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 5th, '08, 13:39

Dug wrote:Supposedly built in 1987...

They say "launch date", Pascoe says build years, communication between seller & listing company is who knows... Most Internet listing sites wouldn't know a Bertram, Hatteras, or Bayliner if it ran over 'em.

STeveZ · Post by **STeveZ** » Jun 5th, '08, 14:03

I saw one at Wortons Creek a couple years ago. Like Capt Pat said it had the appearance of a B28 with an extended cabin.

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Jun 5th, '08, 16:22

It may be the same hull as the early 80's 30, but its a completey different cabin and bridge set up:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 24704&url=

I had seen one for a short while on yachtworld a few years ago and always wondered what it was. I believe that was an Aussie boat as well.

It looks like a pretty neat boat. Sort of like a mini 33 FBC.

nic · Post by **nic** » Jun 5th, '08, 20:32

That's what most people here think we've got when we say Bertram 31......do you see they even have the gall to call it a "Classic Bertram 31"...anyway, they are a smaller version of the 35 with less vee and no engine boxes so they are, in my opinion, very "caravany" and plastic and me too and don't get me started.

Did you know that Bertrams were built under licence in Japan too at one stage in the late 60s. I think just the larger boats.

Nic

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Jun 5th, '08, 21:05

Doug...

Wasn't it a Bertram 30 that we saw in Plymouth last year? I can't recall who was with me but a couple of us spoke with the owner and he invited us aboard.

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Jun 6th, '08, 00:01

Frank,

It was a 30 Bertram. For the record, they had a slightly deeper v than the 35's (18.5-18 per Bertram's 1984 spec sheet). Not a bad boat, just a very pricey replacement for the 31's at the wrong time.

nic · Post by **nic** » Jun 6th, '08, 04:09

Capt. Pat,

We are all talking about two different boats...the "Bertram 31" built by Carribean came out after the 35 here and is a scaled down version and cheaper version of the 35, I have never seen it in the States, the Bertram 30 / "28 on steroids" has the low profile that lends itself so well to the deep vee design....and there are none in Australia...there is one B33 in Oz.

Nic

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 6th, '08, 06:40

Is the helm on the wrong side too, or is the pic mirrored?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jun 6th, '08, 06:54

Nic,

Thanks for the education! Now, I'll know what I'm looking at next time...

Br,

Patrick

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Jun 6th, '08, 07:45

nic wrote:...there is one B33 in Oz.

Do you mean Syd's B33 in Perth? If not, then there are at least two

Buju · Post by **Buju** » Jun 6th, '08, 09:18

Interesting how models evolve, are discontinued, produced overseas, etc...

Capt. Pat & Bruce:
Aint that one of the 80's vintage B30's docked up, on the right, as you cross the small bridge on to Singer Island?
I haven't been up there for a year or so, but It's been there for years...

nic · Post by **nic** » Jun 6th, '08, 16:55

Sean,

If your mate Syd brought it in then that would make two....the one I know had 3208 Cats and was around Brisbane/Gold Coast for years but I have lost track of it. Maybe with the high $A we will start to see more come in.

Sim,

Yep, helm on the wrong side.....but look at that beautiful mezzanine galley! You can cook 'em a meal after you run into 'em. Don't get me started.

Nic

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Jun 7th, '08, 06:24

Nic:

Do you know the local 'history' for Bertram's being made in Australia?

Last time I checked Gameboats website they had a full line of Caribbean's from 24' or so on up to their newest model being built/introduced at 40' odd feet if I remember correctly?

Was it that International Marine were the original builder under licence with Bertram USA and built /marketed their boats built as Bertram's and after that licencing agreement expired they built/marketed their boats as Caribbean's?Which were/are marketed in the USA under 'Southern Cross'?

www.southerncross-boats.com

Do you know where Riviera "we'll blow Bertram right out of the bloody water" fits in,being that they are so similar to Bertram USA and the Australia built models - did 'they' start at International Marine and branch off.....or?

nic · Post by **nic** » Jun 7th, '08, 13:52

Preston Burrows wrote:
Was it that International Marine were the original builder under licence with Bertram USA and built /marketed their boats built as Bertram's and after that licencing agreement expired they built/marketed their boats as Caribbean's?

Preston,

Yes, after Bertram reminded them which way was up......

International Marine is the Spooner family in Melbourne, they developed a huge industrial park at Mordialloc, which is still being released nearly fifty years later and boat manufacturing there has always been a sideline for them. They built the 20, 25, 28, 35 and 42 Bertrams under licence...you can see a difference between these ersatz Bertrams and the real Bertrams. I am no fan. They have made their own modifications over time, particularly to the 35 hull under the waterline. They dropped the Bertram name but continued the eagle logo, "The Boat the Experts Buy" tag and just carried on under Carribean....maybe it was amicable, I don't know, we had some pretty strange copyright laws back then.

"Southern Cross" seems to me to be a completely unrelated marketing company attempting to disguise the origins of the Carribean boats, I would be really surprised if the break-up did not include a bar to selling the Carribean boats in certain markets. The "SX5000" looks like the Carribean 45, they are really stretchy photos...the Sydney Opera House is about half as wide as their shot and we don't have rhinos. There was a broker at Gilman who used to come down to Oz in the 90s all the time, nice guy.

Riviera is all about Bill Barry-Cotter, no connection whatsoever. Bill started Mariner in the 70s, sold it, started Riviera in competition, bought Mariner back at cents in the $, and continued to build a lot of underpowered caravans with no watertight bulkheads (Edit...that's a bit harsh, he did some beautiful customs builds). In the 90s he targeted the US market due to a very favourable exchange rate, improved the build quality and specification of Riviera out of sight in order to do so, re-styled them based on Bertram and put decent engines in them. He sold out of Riviera for $180m, started Maritimo in competition and history repeats...I heard he offered to buy Riviera back last week, not for $180m. Bill is a very good boat-builder, probably the most efficient in the world, a good businessman as well as a very succesful off-shore racer in his own designed and built boats.

Nic

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strange B31 in OZ

strange B31 in OZ

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