Non skid.,.,for a gelcoat deck

[Ric]

I pulled my decks and side panels as i want to re/gelcoat the decks and put on a non skid ,,,originally i used a polymeric non skid compound mixed with a gelcoat /w wax and rolled it on and it would be fine for say 3 seasons where the decks would start to get worn down and the non skid wasnt so non skid anymore. ..Such is the case right now ,,i Have one of the decks sanded ,cleaned, and prepped and am ready to do it ,,,but i thought i would ask if there was anyhting else out there as a non skid that could be mixed in with a gelcoat other than the polymeric non skid.,.,for possibly a longer life expectancy,,,Maybe that isnt possible give that the gelcoat itself sacrifices itself .,.,but i thought i would ask anyways.,..,I suppose i could go with more polymeric for a rougher surface and possibly a little longer life .,.,but was curious as to what else other people have used as the p[olymeric nonskid is all i know..!

[CaptPatrick]

Ric,

It's not so much the non-skid you used, generally one is as good as another, it's the gelcoat that's your weak link... Prep & mask like before but prime with 545 Awlgrip epoxy primer, sand with 320 grit, & use an Awlgrip topcoat as your medium to carry the non-skid. The paint will wear like steel & the non-skid material is tougher still. You can match your gelcoat color from an Awlgrip color chart.

You can spray it, but a fine nap roller would be easier & no masking other than on the deck... Be sure to use a roller cover that won't turn to mush when subjected to the 2 part paint, if you go that direction. Keep the non-skid material re-mixed into suspension with the paint as you go.

Br,

Patrick

[In Memory of Vicroy]

Ric - ditto what the Ole Fart teaches. Gelcoat has no place on a deck. My Imron 5000 with the non skid in it has lasted 8 years on the deck, which was originally painted in 2000...when I had AJ repainted with Imron after the Katrina diaster, they did the front deck and gunnels with the same non skid due to some storm damage, but the rear deck was still so good we left it.

Imron is 10 times better than gelcoat...hard as nails, don't craze, don't fade, don't turn to powder, don't do nothing but shine like crazy...don't absorb nothing, don't scratch. Some spots on AJ's hull that got bashed and rubbed against exposed 3/4" bolt ends in the storm only cut a few areas thru the Imron, the biggest the size of a pie plate. The gel coated boats in the same pile were virtually destroyed. Tough stuff, use it.

yo Fren'

UV

[Rawleigh]

I love my Awlgrip nonskid in my cockpit! 7 years and it still looks great!

[Buju]

Just throwing around random ideas here...

How durable would it be to use West epoxy, with the 207 UV hardener, the white pigment, and the nonskid? ...In essence using the white, UV stabilized epoxy as a encapsulation for the grit. I'd think it would be much better than a polyester gel, and possibly more durable than a linear polyurethane...but I in actuality, I've got no idea...

Are there any vinylester gelcoats on the market? Any advantages there?

[CaptPatrick]

How durable would it be to use West epoxy, with the 207 UV hardener, the white pigment, and the nonskid?

Buju,

It'd be a disaster....... First, it would yellow in no time & only get darker with age, even with the 207 hardner. Cured epoxy resin isn't much harder, if at all, than poltester gelcoat & oxidizes under sun light just as fast. Far less durable than linear poly.

Br,

Patrick

[Buju]

Interesting. I figured that the yellowing would be a factor, but am surprised on the lack of durability/abrasion resistance... but when I think of how easily it sands... it makes sense.

Which leads me to this:

Wouldn't it be better to use a clear linear poly, as opposed to epoxy, when encapsulating wood (exterior teak) for fine finishes? I guess the advantage of the epoxy is the ability to lay it on very thick and rapidly build up film thickness, whereas the linear poly would require many, many coats to even come close to the DFT of the epoxy... Allthough the thinner l.poly film would be more durable.
Does the epoxy have the superior bond, over the poly?

[CaptPatrick]

Does the epoxy have the superior bond, over the poly?

Absolutely! Epoxy is a true high preformanc adhesive. LPU is a, in most cases, is a top coat finish paint. Fine in thin film over an epoxy prime. LP won'y stand up to the expansion/contraction of wood.

Even encapsulated, wood still expands & contracts. LPU applied directly to wood will crack when the wood expands, allowing moisture in & debonding the LP. Thicker applications will only do the same thing, maybe faster. A thin film has strechability where as a thick film trys harde to stay in one place. Bertram's early gelcoating techniques are a good example. They applied the gelcoat too thick & as a result it spider cracks with age. Paints will do the same thing, even one part products.

Teak transoms usually have a clear coat of LPU over several coats of epoxy. The epoxy bonds completely with the wood, creates a waterproof barrier. The clear coat only enhances & prolongs the shine. Over dark wood, yellowing isn't a real problem because the color of the wood hides it. Transoms also don't get the same amount of direct UV light as would toe rails, topside trim, chairs, & rocket launchers.

[Buju]

Thanks Capt... for always selflessly taking the time to further my understanding. The more I learn, the more it continues to amaze me of how much I still need to learn.

For instance, it is one thing to know a product should, or shouldn't be used for an application (and thats good to know) but it's obviously a whole different, and beneficial, thing to know exactly WHY it should, or shouldn't be used.

[bob lico]

vic roy why did you use the imron 5000 instead of the regular imron you painted the hull with?i also have a imron hull and at the point of painting over the gel coat cockpit.this was a mistake i had no idea the gel coat with non skid would be so soft especially if you try to scrub a stain out.i figure i would use 3 to 1 course to fine non skid any ideas?

[Classic Trade]

I just completed the painting of my cockpit with Awlgrip and non-skid. Instead of mixing the non-skid into the topcoat, I primed my deck twice and after each priming, I put the non-skid in a salt shaker and applied it to the deck while the primer was still wet. By doing it this way, I avoided the clumps of non-skid that sometimes occurs if you mixed it into the topcoat paint. It worked great for me and looks perfect.

Classic Trade

[bob lico]

is anybody familar with imron 5000??i am going to prime over the gel coat with awlgrip 545 primer because i already own it.then i would use the non skid with the imron that was used on the hull.my intentions were to roll because spraying would be a no no at the mariner at this time due to all the boats being stored close together.

[Raybo Marine NY]

Bob- we discussed this.
You have the imron already, use it.

[bob lico]

I guess i will robbie this way i have a exact match color wise.i just wanted to know if the imron 5000 had better properties for painting with a rollar and is it more durable on a cockpit floor.

[In Memory of Vicroy]

AJ was professionally painted with Imron 5000 in 2000. This paint job was over a prior paint job done in the early 90s with an unknown paint that turned chalky. The 2000 Imron 5000 job turned out perfect and the only mistake I made was waxing it in about 2004....created black streaks from the dirt. Katrina damage in August, 2005 gave me another paint job in 2006, re-did professionally with the same Imron 5000 on the hull, topsides and gunnels. The original Imron in the cockpit was still good.

Don't wax it, if anything, use ReJex only.

UV

[CaptPatrick]

Don't wax it, if anything, use ReJex only.

I've been bad mouthing "wax" for going on 20 years... Wax is old technology that somehow just keeps hanging on. A left over from your granddaddy's new Packard. Something to use for removing un-wanted hair from the bodies of women & guys who wished they were.

So this is a good time to say my piece again...

Wax is too heavy of a material to properly penetrate the pores of either paint or gelcoat. It's a build up process that leaves a heavy film on the surface &, just like a wax candle, it softens under heat from sunlight. Dust, dirt, pollution, and what ever else floating around in the air on that hot sunny day drops onto the waxed surface & promptly sinks into it. Happens on a hot rainy day also.

Once migrated in, the only way to get rid the dirt is to re-wax. Re-waxing softens the old wax & allows the grime to be picked up by the applicator cloth. After tedious hours of re-waxing, the surface looks great again. Only until the next batch of dirt gets absorbed...

Now, the real way to protect a nice shiny finish is with a POLYMER SEALANT.

Polymer sealants, are applied, in may cases, like liquid waxes. Wipe it on, rub it in, & buff it off. What the sealants do the waxes don't is: 1. Penetrate the pores of the underlaying finish 2. Dry to a relative hard plastic like film. A film that won't be softened by the sun or be easily washed away.

Rejex is a true polymer sealant and a great one for final use, albeit, somewhat expensive and application sensitive.

The product that I always liked the best is Meguire's Machine Glaze. Somewhat a PITA to apply, because, as the name implies, it should be applied & buffed with a machine.

The MMG will yield a very strong surface treatment with a good shine & protect the paint or gelcoat, in a marine environment, for about 6 - 8 months on horizontal surfaces in southern regions of the northern hemisphere. Vertical surfaces can last up to a year. Longevity can be affected also by your specific location. UV back up the Tickfaw River, no industrial pollution, can get a lot more mileage out of his shiny surface than can Doug's B33 docked under the local power plant...

Like I stated, sealing your boat is hard work, especially the first time, but it out preforms wax hands down. To make it last longer & with easier labor, an occasional maintenance coat of Rejex over the machine sealant, will keep you from having to do the hard job more than every year or maybe two.

At least every other year, or sooner, you should compound, (as necessary & with the finest grit compound as can get the job done), your finish to keep too much build up of old material to a minimum. Then re-seal as before & start a new cycle of maintenance.

Beware of any "sealant" that has as an ingredient: WAX, TEFLON, or ACRYLIC. You want only a top grade polymer sealant. Anything else is marketing hype...

Br,

Patrick