TERRIBLE Crocodile Bay experience (long)...

[CMP]

A few folks asked about Croc Bay and I waited until I received all the BS I could stand. Here you go:

Up front, I'll say that, from a logistics standpoint, they did it right. Accomodations were adequate, food was good, staff was very nice. That said, I wasn't there with that stuff as priority #1-we were there to fish. I brought 2 guys with me-one who's been offshore a fair amount and one who had never been. It was an unmitigated embarrassment.

Day one, we were subjected to an incompetent cap who didn't give a crap whether we caught anything bigger than a skipjack tuna. By noon, I was telling the mate what to put in the spread (the jackass didn't even put a 'hoo out until I found them in a cooler) and questioning the "cap" as to why we hadn't moved more than 4 miles from our drop in spot. The answer was some mumbled bullshit about seeing fish there yesterday and a changed waypoint on the gps-as if we couldn't draw references from points on land. Bottom line on day one, we never went father than 20 off the beach and didn't catch shit-2 small roosters, a few jacks and a cubera snapper inshore, not a sniff offshore-very little effort and had it not been for plentiful beer and the prospect of 3 more days to get it done. Upon getting back to the dock, I walked away, pissed and and mulling my options. One of my buds came into the bar after a while and said that we were being comped a boat upgrade "to my best captain" due to the lame effort. OK, I think, customer service and we'll be fine. Wrong.

Day two, off we go, feeling better, went a bit longer in the Srike 33-slow boat but a decent platform. Well, here we go again. We set up in an area to the west/northwest of the previous day, maybe 25 miles off the beach, according to the gps, which I had to sneak a peek at. Nothing. No blue water. No bait. No birds. Nothing but 4 Croc Bay boats. I could see some boats on the horizon outside of us. "WTF are they doing, ask I?" We were essentially running racetrack patterns NW to SE with nothing happening. "No feesh" says the cap, pointing at the radio. Piss on it, lets go inside and see if we can find roosters, but what was eating at me was their refusal to head offshore farther. Inshore, nothing changed. Small roosters and jacks. The he wants us to bottom fish. My buddy Rick looks at me and says, "WTF is this? If I want to fish the bottom I can do that at home." Waste of time.

Day 3, same deal as yesterday. Weak excuses as to why we were where we were. Went south to the other side of the bay on the way in. Director of fishing says the fishing is dead-ass slow for everyone. He's kind of a smarmy guy and I wasn't in the mood.

Day 4 dawns rainy and shitty. Back out to the W/NW spot. Finally raised and pinned a sail-about 100 lbs. The rookie fights it well and we land it. Again, we're not in consistent blue water and I'm getting agitated, pointing offshore when I can see other sport boats around 6-10 miles outside. Now these Strikes are 20-22 kt boats. We're 1/2 hour to the point by Matapalo Rock, then we cruise for 1 hr. Keep this in mind for later. Raised a couple more and cap claims to see a marlin. Rain is intense all day and mood is sour. Waste of time-we should be outside.

Next morning, we check out and find a 2 day upcharge for the bigger boats. Are you shitting me? The claim is that they only upgraded us free fo rone day. That was not how it was communicated to Rick at all, but we're running late, fishing dicktator is on the dock far from us, so we pay and scoot, figuring we'll deal with it later. We get on a Nature Air DeHavilland Twin Otter-cool plane-and I strike up a conversation with a couple of German guys who naturally ask, "how was the fishing?" Awful , says I, and I outline the 4 days. They look at one another and shake their heads. Uh oh, I think, this ought to be good. Turns out, one of their brothers owns a few homes out by the Matapalo Rock and they own a boat in Puerto Jiminez, the town that houses Croc Bay. They hammered the sails and raised several marlin, 6-14 miles outside of us! They were in a fleet of boats, some of which were fishing a tournament, in blue water, just outside us and they could see us all day! Slow burn starts. They then went on to tell me that they have heard Croc Bay caps say that they are under a 25 mile limit placed by the fishign director at Croc Bay. Burn intensifies. In other words, we had about the same shot catching fish there as we did on the GD teacup ride at Disney. The ppl at Croc Bay have a few things to say about these allegations and I'll share them with you later, but bear with me here. We fly to Golfito to pick up other folks. 2 groups get on the plane, one stayed at Golfito, the other had chartered a private boat. I ask them independently how it went and got the same story as the Germans. Covered up in sails and saw the Croc Bay fleet inside. The guys on the private charter told me they asked thier cap wtf was up with the yellow boats inside and their cap recounted a story wherein he was in a Puerto Jiminez watering hole the night before and that every one of the Croc Bay guys knew where the fish were, but were not allowed to go there. BURNING AS HOT AS POSSIBLE, now.

So, I got home (after a 16 hour ordeal of cancelled flights and rescheduling-talk about adding insult to injury) and let my burn die down before writing notes which I include below. Bottom line, these guys KNEW where the fish were and would not allow their guys to go get them. Furthermore, they admit to having a 30 mile limit (you'll see this in the letter below) yet they NEVER told any guests about this. In their defense, normally, you don't need to head farther out and there is allegedly a 40 mile government limit, BUT, the fish were not that far out. Info is key and when someone seeks to keep info from me, what conclusion can one draw other than they're hiding something. As you'll see, they grudgingly admit to the limit, but give us a bunch of bullshit song and dance around it. Read the rest for yourselves and draw your own conclusions. For me, it was a bunch of bullshit and I doubt I'll waste the money to go there again...

MarkP

My first note to the Croc Bay ppl, which was copied to the other 2 guys:


Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 6:14 AM
To: jim@crocodilebay.com
Subject: C Bay...

Good morning Jim,

I decided to wait a day or 2 before writing this to ensure that I presented it in the proper way. The logistics, accommodations, food and most importantly, the staff at Croc Bay were very good and we had a good time despite fishing that was a the worst I’ve ever experienced. I have 2 problems that I feel need to be aired. On day 1, we went out with a cap who put practically no effort into catching anything. As you know, I’ve been offshore fishing since I was a young kid and when I have to essentially tell a cap to put out something in the spread (after he didn’t allow the mate to make one change in over an hour), we have issues. One of our group beat me to the punch and spoke to Todd before I got the chance, aired his concerns and Todd responded that he’d put us in a tower boat with no charge. Great, that’s customer service. I personally thanked Todd for his intervention and hoped things would improve. Make a long story short, the fishing, both inshore and offshore was abysmal. Nothing anyone could do, it was what it was-nobody was doing well and our 1 sail in 4 trips was only slightly worse than everyone else. While we’re fishing, I kept noticing that we never found what I’d call billfish water; nice blue water with bait, etc. We never strayed too far from our starting point despite my requests. I saw boats to the outside of us, not Croc Bay boats mind you, yet we never ventured forth. I thought ok, these guys are on the radio, must be dead out there too. Wrong assumption. Upon departing, I spoke with 3 guys fishing on different boats who slayed the fish. When I asked where they were fishing, the reply was out of Puerto Jiminez, around 30-40 miles out. When the asked the same question I replied that we were at Croc Bay. 2 looked at each other and shook their heads. They never come out that far, that’s why we no longer fish them. The third, who owns property not far from the rock on the point (cannot recall the name, starts with a M), said he saw the CBay tower boats all day around 6-8 miles inside, but knew they wouldn’t come out to the blue water. As I pried deeper, I was told that CBay caps aren’t allowed to go that far.

Now Jim, I was understandably ripshit at that point. If true, the caps knew where the fish were but weren’t allowed to get there. As I think about the reaction of the cap and mate when I asked why we aren’t out there, I think they were embarrassed that we weren’t where the fish were. I realize that this is hearsay. These guys might be wrong. The problem I have is that 3 guys who were in 3 different boats were raising 10-14 a day and pinning better than half of them, fishing 6-10 miles outside of where we wasted 4 days, raising only 2, pinning one, only on the last day and the reason is ostensibly that CBay won’t go that far. If that were the case, we should have been told. Regardless, if that is NOT the case, then the information network used there is terrible. Neither is a particularly positive scenario. The second issue is with that, upon checking out, I find a $420 upcharge on each of our statements for the tower boat days. Being that we were literally getting on the truck to leave, I didn’t deal with it then and frankly, Todd was down on the dock, so I had no time. Bottom line is that we were comped one day’s upgrade and charged for the other 2. OK then, why didn’t Todd tell us that we’d be charged for the days when we spoke to him? At least then, we have the option to say, nah, not worth the extra money or sure, it was worth it and we’ll stay with that boat. We were under the understanding that he’d upgraded us, period-no strings attached. We clearly learned otherwise.

As I said, I wanted to wait a couple of days until I emailed you so that I wasn’t angry while I did and spoke candidly/dispassionately about our experience at Croc Bay and there it is. The question is, what are you folks prepared to do to rectify the above issues? Thanks…


MarkP

Next is his reply:

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your thoughtful note. I am Sincerely Sorry your Fishing was not what we all hoped it would be. I’ve shared your note widely with Todd and other Lodge personnel and am waiting for feedback from them before any further action on our part. The fishing was Not good while you visited and since we are the largest Fishing operation by far in the area, many of the smaller operators bad mouth us and claim great Fishing because we always get the lion’s share of the Fishing business. I am off tomorrow Friday, but will get back to you Monday. Again my apologies,

Sincerely,

Jim

Jim Steenson

Reservations Manager
Crocodile Bay, Costa Rica

My reply as I was not in the mood to hear that BS:

Interesting take on that Jim and I appreciate your reply, but need to clarify one thing I guess I didn’t properly convey. The “smaller operators” to whom you refer were not operators but individuals like us who were fishing the area outboard of us with good success and blue water. One owned a home near Matapalo, not a fishing op. Best regards…

MarkP

Several Days later, I received this:

Hi Mark,
*
My apologies for the delayed response to your letter below. *Our boats are limited by Costa Rican law to a 40 mile limit. *Individual Private boats do go beyond this limit but since we have 40 boats, from a liability standpoint, we cannot risk problems with the Costa Rican Government and Fish & Game authorities to go further out.* This is explained by Beau Williams, our Hotel Manager in his response to me and you below. *Beau is much more aware of the local restrictions than I, and researched your letter and comments very carefully.* He invites you to communicate directly with him should you wish to.* His Email is: beau@crocodilebay.com *
*
Should you wish to return to Crocodile Bay we will give you 2 Free Strike Boat upgrades plus a complimentary massage for everyone in your party.
*
Again my apologies for your Trip misunderstandings,
*
Sincerely,
Jim
*

*
Jim Steenson
Reservations Manager
Crocodile Bay, Costa Rica
World Class Sports Fishing, Eco*Adventures &*Spa
Puerto Jimenez, Costa Rica
100 Landing Court, Suite D, Novato, CA* 94945 USA
800-733-1115 x108 or 415 209-9976 x108
<blocked> www.crocodilebay.com
*
*


----------------

From: Beau Williams [mailto:beaucbl@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 12:12 PM
To: Jim Steenson; Beau Williams; Cory Williams; Robin Williams; Todd Staley
Subject: RE: Croc Bay Fishing
*
*
** Jim-
*
******* After reading Mr. Poirier's E-mail, I asked that our fishing Director Todd Staley research the issue about the individuals who were on the plane with Mr. Poirier, so that we may be better able to*understand and respond to the*situation.*
*
******* As it turns out, the individual who*owned the house*"not far from*Matapalo Rock" was Mike Hennessey, who was fishing in the recent tournament against Donny*McGuiness, who is Arturo McGuiness's brother who is Todd's Assistant.**The tournament occured while Mr. Poirier was at*Crocodile Bay.* Since Donny McGuiness (Arturo's*brother) was fishing against Hennessey, we recieved first hand accounts of where they were fishing.* Donny went 80 miles off shore, while Hennessey*told Donny he had gone as far as 120 miles offshore.* And Hennessey did officially come in last in the tournament.
*
******* It is important to also state that the tourist oriented fishing liscenses that Incopesca issues us (and all other legal fishing boats in the area- save the long liners) do have a 40 mile distance limit.* To go farther than 40 miles offshore while fishing, puts not only the captian, boat, and company who owns the boat into legal trouble, but also the fishermen (as in Costa Rica, ignorance to the law is not a plausible legal defense and violators are prosecuted, regardless of their country of origin).* Because of this Todd does put a distance limit on his captains from 25*- 35 miles depending on the*seasonal weather (for safety reasons as we have no Coast Guard and hence*can rely on nobody outside of the company to ensure the safety of our clients in the case of an emergency), and the number of fish being caught.* As the fishing was so slow during the week that Mr. Poirier was here,*Todd had set the limit*at 35 miles which is*the max that he uses, as he has become aware that a 5 mile cushion is required to*assure that neither the*currents, the lack of immediate attention on the part of the captain during long fights, or the captains belief that "just a few more miles will make a difference" puts the company and the clients in legal*or physical danger.* And again, this 5 mile cushion is in place for the legal, and physical safety of the*captians as well as the clients.**
*
** We understand that many fishing boats in Puerto Jimenez do at times knowingly break the laws set down by Incopesca as well as Minae (Costa Ricas fish and game).* But due to our companies size (unable to "sneak" 30 offshore boats past legal limits), responsibility to our clients (both regarding safety and legality), as well as our moral responsibility*to the country of Costa Rica*we are dedicated to*not violating the laws of the country.
*
** In regards to*Mr. Poirier's feeling that*Todd's*failure to explicitly clarify that while the first Strike Upgrade was free, the*following two were not, we have recently changed*our policy, and Todd is now required to speak with every individual in the group who will be fishing, before upgrades are issued.**And in order to*apologize for the misunderstanding, we would like to offer Mr. Poirier two free strike upgrades upon his next trip.
*
Please send this on to Mr. Poirier and*let him*know to feel free to contact me directly if I may answer any other questions, or assist in any future trips.**
Thanks,
Beau ********

Beau Williams

General Manager

My final response to this BS from which I've received no response

Beau is wrong on several accounts. First, the guys with whom I spoke with a home by the Rock were not Americans and not named Hennessy. Second, there were 2 other people with whom we spoke who specifically said they were no more than 10 miles outside us at the time-the boats I saw on occasion. Third, I own 3 boats myself and have been offshore fishing my entire life. We never even approached 40 miles, never saw blue water on a consistent basis. I can read a gps quite well and given the boats cruise speed and time en route, it’s quite impossible for us to have been father than 25 miles off the beach and the boats were working a specific line on those last 2 days, rarely deviating. Clarifying the upgrade policy makes sense-good idea for your future guests. That said, I feel as though we were on a friggin amusement park ride for 4 days with little or no chance of catching anything meaningful and were not apprised of this fact. Don’t think I’ll be visiting you folks again. Take care…
*

Mark

[Hyena Love]

Sorry to hear of your poor experience.

Unfortunately, I can relate. Different location, same basic deal.

[In Memory Walter K]

Sounds like a testimonial for Tropic Star. Walter

[CMP]

I think you might be onto something there, Walt. I've heard from a buch of ppl with similar experiences and corroboration of the allegations made. Not gonna happen again. Live and learn...

CMP

[Rob C]

I had somewhat the same impressions of CB (Croc of Bullshit) but was a guest so was not that pissed, nor did I say anything. They did have to bring our boat more beer in trade for our food as we had time to drink it ALL. I even stayed one day longer than the other guys just so I could go solo and go outside for Marlin. Todd said fine........... the boat would be ready early so be at the dock at 6:30 (but could not stay out any later than 4:00,? it get's dark at 6:30/7:00) we waited till 8:30 for bait because the Capt. had not ordered it????????????????? at that point I said ###### it lets go we can find bait easer. We ran around 30/35 mi and put MY jigs out, had a good size fish up in around 20min, no bite. I (I) spotted a school of skippies a mi or so off and said go there. Caught a few, they died, because the mate did not know how to bridle it (he had never seen that)??????????? Raised another a few hrs later but no bite. Caught a few sail in between the Capt. and mate were very happy' "Great Day"!!!!?????? Stopped fishing at 3:00 to get home in time????? I caught the ferry to Gulfito talked to a few guys at Banana Bay the fishing had been ok. The Staff, (cute little cat face girl, was incredible) were great, but, I would not spend my $$ there. Lots of good operations there.

Rob C

[White Bear]

I would pass on Jim's offer of a "complimentary massage" It looks as if you have already had it.

[CMP]

LOL! Ya think?!?!?

CMP