yanmar type 6by260z

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 9th, '08, 22:16

bruce have you worked with or have you ever seen the new BY series yanmar?this configuration 260 mhp at 4000rpm in combination with the mercruiser bravo x-3 with 1.36 gears .bmw, common rail injection all electronic can bus is nmea 2000 protocol.this can be presented on raymarine display.i want to purchase the engine /drive before doing up the stringers in the 20' bertram baron.i have not met anybody with hands on knowledge.

scot · Post by **scot** » Mar 9th, '08, 22:20

Bob,
6cyl, 260hp diesel in a B20? Your my hero.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Mar 10th, '08, 08:14

Bob,
Yes, seen them in detail. Been on and off the market due to problems. Last one not too long ago was pulled due to potential fire hazard.

Rumor has it that BMW, the maker of the engine is going to stop production for Yanmar.

I wouldn't touch one if it was free. Maybe 3 years down the road after its proved itself, but certainly not now.

Steyer now has the ability for digital display and I'm checking to make sure its the 2000/can buss.

It's display has the government rating, since they are a government contractor, to 3 meters in depth.

So if someone decided to submarine their boat, at least the display would be reusable.

After actually working on a few Steyers in the field, I'd chose them over the BY any day.

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 10th, '08, 17:33

Sounds like a re-run of the 1980s, those marine BMWs were a disaster.

Nic

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Mar 10th, '08, 18:12

Bruce,
Spoke with Sid today. We were talking about those new Yan-Beamers at one point. He said he had heard of three boats that burned to the water line with those engines. Fuel system problems I guess. Still happy as a pig in sh!# with my motors.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 10th, '08, 20:50

bruce thanks for the straight scoop.i only have specs. and pictures and it look very inpressive especially the torque curve.the engine is compack and sleek for the 20bert engine compartment but most of all i needed a diesel that bolted to the bravo x-3.volvo is out we have no conections with them.i really did not want to go to gas even if it was for free.a 625sc mercruiser is a little to much.i don`t ever want to look at another set of headers again.been there seen that .i looking for at least 60mph.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Mar 10th, '08, 22:02

Bob-You're far more knowledgeable on this subject than me, but I seem to remember two diesel Bravo 3 combinations at the boat show where some sort of jury rigged cooling stream of water was shooting over the Bravo 3 upper unit. When I questioned it, I was told it was discovered that the Bravo 3's needed the extra cooling because of the heat the power generated. For what it's worth. Walter

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » Mar 10th, '08, 23:12

Bob - Volvo D6 370 HP, duoprop composite drive, F9 props will get you to 70, be bullet-proof and give 4.5 mpg at 45 Knots. If i had the budget when doing mine...At rest the boat will seem aft heavy, underway, she will trim out perfectly.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '08, 15:10

walterk bravo x-3 also producers a tremedous turbulance between the props.these air bubbles can cut into the trim plate of the bravo,so mercruiser jury rigged a tube that cools the gears but most important removes the air bubbles around the prop.not much of a problem on the bubble boats with 1.76 or 1.56 gears but really comes on with the 1.33 gearing.those props are spinning more than 3500rpm with hp motors!!!
rocket the volvo`s sound great and i am aware of the spec,on the diesel/bravo but oakdale yacth has no account with volvo and i would have to pay street price as well as future labor and parts at list i don`t feel this project justified that big number for the volvo.this is just a bay boat but the bay here is 4 miles across and you could run at 100mph plus for at least 30miles .been there many a time on 28' and 24' skater cats .

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 11th, '08, 15:22

Bob: I assume you mean a type of drive shower?

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '08, 15:24

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '08, 15:39

rocket after very precise comparisons with a" lessor" boats in yesterdays heydays of racing mainly SK boats you would "go to sleep" at the wheel in your baron at 65mph in the bay.those sk were going 85mph in a 16' inboard.a 20 bertram with 24 deadrise and those lifting strakes are lightyears ahead of those sk boats.that baron is a great boat to just drop in the bay,take a blast,get some wind in your face.you understand some crazy people have a need for speed just to relieve the daily pressure and i think it alot safer then our n.y governers activity!!!

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Mar 11th, '08, 16:05

Bob the guys at http://www.superiorspecializedservices.com/ brought a 28B with two of these BMW's. They were straight inboards and looked nice. The guy ran his boat down from Long Island and was a sponsor of the Mid-Atlantic Rendezvous last year. Give Robert Hyers a call at 516-883-2404 and see what he has to say. Tell him I said hi.

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » Mar 11th, '08, 19:41

Bob, you are absolutely right - the Baron at 65 feels rock solid, still digging the "Bertram Hole". Have you thought about an Arneson drive? mated with the Yanmar would give you speed and effeciency that would be hard to beat. That, or you become a Volvo dealer! Keep us posted on this exciting project. Having said that I know one of the B20 guys put a bravo 3 on his Bahia Mar with a 6.2 Merc and is really happy - not goin' 70, though...

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Mar 11th, '08, 20:04

Bob,
The bravo x-3 is that a twin prop unit?
If it is at what point does the dual rotation become a deffinciency?
We've got a B3 on the 24 silverhawk and its been bullet proof for 400 hours. Love the backing up in a straight line part of the show.
Didn't think the go fast guys liked them due to the drag associated with spinning 2 wheels.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '08, 21:35

thats right jp there is a line to go by.when we get into go fast duel or triple engine you want bravo 5 with speedmasters.in counter rotation or left rotation,right rotation is center and deeper with 6 blade prop,and starboard is also right rotation.water pickups are mounted on hull.the bertram 20 is single engine and with any kind of good power would be making right turns all day another words you would be fighting the wheel with a single right rotation prop.the bravo x-3 is duel prop (left and right rotation) counteracts and right or left torque ----the boat goes straight.the draw back is the duel prop is good till 70mph or so by than the two props spinning left rotation/right rotation 6" apart loose effective propusion due to airation,actually it is not the 70mph (in a light boat) it is base on the rpm of the prop.so a lesser torque engine(gas) would have to turn faster than a diesel which can turn a lower rpm will more pitch and diameter.i know i am going to get a slew of p.m. on this "what about torque tamers/and at what point does the diesel exceed the gas e.t.c." i am not going to put the effort into this like the 31bert it is what it is.but that 625sc sure does look enticing for that baron engine compartment!!!

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 11th, '08, 21:49

Bob,

You can build your own surface drive easier than you think. Rolla props have done a lot of work with boat builders on this and I am sure they would help you.

Fit the engine like an inboard as far aft as you can so that the propellor hub disects the water line, normal shaft etc.....then you run the exhaust to dump air on the prop to aerate at low speeds, incorporating the exhaust and the rudder hanging behind the prop off a custom boarding platform...make sure the platform has air vents because those props need more air than you would believe...simple as a shaft drive and the best performance you are ever going to see.

If you are interested I'll get a drawing for you, all moulded glass, looks great and stunning performance, OK not great in reverse but still fun.

Nic

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 11th, '08, 22:46

nic sounds interesting as far as reverse is concern on this boat this is not a issue.i wanted the boat to look o.e.m. like rocket did to his baron. the surface drive is like having "zoomie pipes" coming out of the engine compartment !!! cool perhaps-- practical probably not. i don`t know enought to comment but i had some exposure to kamma drives in offshore 1 class apba. betty cook world champ swore by them but on a 20' bertram i think have to keep it in propective.don`t get me wrong with the 625 hp mercruisers of course they are a little high on the hp needs of a 20bert but at the moment they are free but the super charger,actually the fuel injection sticks up above engine comp.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 12th, '08, 11:27

Bob: There is a system out that is a surface drive and rudder combo built into a drive box that bolts to the transom. I cannot remember their name right now, but I think it is a neat system that would directly replace a stern drive. It has a little swim platform on top of the box too. The motor would attach using a short jackshaft. Here is another company with something similar. http://www.ultradynamics.com/sections/s ... ochure.pdf

Here they are: Pulse drives. They seem like a really neat idea for an application like yours. The 1250SS would be perfect!! Actually a dual 1250ss or dual 1500ss would be pretty neat on a 31!!

http://www.pulsedrive.net/

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 12th, '08, 13:39

bob lico wrote:the bertram 20 is single engine and with any kind of good power would be making right turns all day another words you would be fighting the wheel with a single right rotation prop.

Bob,

below is a picture of the drive on my 26 center console. It is made by Sternpowr (Marine Drive Systems). As you can see, it swings a large inboard propeller (19x19), left hand rotation. For years I had the same problem fighting the wheel. The problem was solved by installing a hynautics steering system on the boat. Now she holds a straight line at 30 kts with my hands off the wheel, and when I want to turn the wheel, all I need now is one finger instead of 2 hands. I feel adding hynautics to a single blade drive should solve your pulling problem.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '08, 18:09

wow ----bruce you never prepared me for this! ok harv if i step out of line let me have it.number one all stern drive inc. parts were throw in the dumpster over 20years ago.number two hynatic anything has not been used in over 15years on any hi proformance boat.all hydralic steering on hi performance is latham.i have given away a pile of hynatic cylinders,and every thing else connected with the system except that (water filled ) oil pressure gauge everybody needed one. 30 years ago we went to twin cylinders (picture below) with stainless plate on mercruiser trs outdrive.about 25 years ago latham took over the industry with all 316ss cylinders and brackets.this is a picture of the regional apba champ that i owned and is the last of the era for hynactic.
the steering is not the reason for making right turns.the problem is the right rotation with 400 plus hp or speed in excess of 60.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '08, 18:51

harv this is the steering i would use for the baron only in a single bravo drive.this is latham all stainless.

nic · Post by **nic** » Mar 12th, '08, 19:05

Harv's seems a lot more user friendly.

Nic

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 12th, '08, 19:46

Bob,

before the hynautics, the boat always made left hand turns due to the left hand rotation.

nic, you don't know how user friendly this drive is. Only 32 moving parts, oil cooled gearcase, no water pumps or exhaust through the drive.
Knock out 4 wrist pins and one hose clamp (for the rubber boot over the universal) and off she comes.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Mar 12th, '08, 20:25

Harv - about 50 years ago my mom & dad had a 24' Lone Star alum. cabin cruiser with a 6 cyl. Ford engine and an Eaton outdrive that looked just like yours....no water pump, no exhaust thru it...as I remember it was pretty much bullet proof....we used if for bream and sac a lait fishing in the swamps. Pulled it behind a Plymouth Fury V-8 with twin 4 bbl. carbs and push button shift, tail fins about 3 feet high. Gas was two bits.

UV

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 12th, '08, 20:59

harv i love you but just think i am talking 400hp !!!! and 70 plus mph or let me tell you a secret stuff a boat and you nomally get away with a small head injury when your face meets the dashboard,and if you go over backwards you fall free from the boat but the grim reaper shows his face when that single hynautic lets go the boat makes a sudden turn and barrel rolls above 70mph they normally die seen it and always fear it as a driver.
vic i could just picture you driving down the highway in thar plymouth fury,i really enjoyed that one.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 12th, '08, 22:46

Bob,

redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. Get the picture? I'm not saying to go with one system. I'm saying have more like 2 systems, with a back up for each. If one let's go, there are still 3 systems left. It was just a suggestion, and I know what you are talking about as far as speed goes. At that speed, hitting the water is like hitting concrete.

UV,

If you still had that Fury in original or original restored condition, it's probably worth about 30 or 40 times what you originally paid for it. Reminds me of when my dad was getting me my first car, not mom's hand me down. Said he'd give me $1500 toward the car and I'd pay off the rest. Well low and behold, I find a '70 Dodge Challenger R/T 383 magnum, convertable with factory air. Rare car indeed. Asking price....$1500. Dad says, if I want that car, I'm going to have to buy it all by myself. SO instead, I stick with the program and he buys me a brand new 1976 Dodge Aspen. One year later, mom and pop divorce. I send the car to my friend's shop to have the roof cut and a glass T-roof put in....(instant semi convertable). A few months later, I find a great deal on a 1970 450hp, 340 6pack motor....instant hot rod. Now I have a one of a kind ride and I'm livin life large at the ripe old age of 22. I still have the car by the way, but it has been in the garage since I became a boat owner.

Anyway, my car isn't worth much except to me, but I keep pokin Dad by telling him that the car he didn't buy for me is worth $160,000 today.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 13th, '08, 07:39

Harv-

But now you have a classic boat, and up 'till a little while ago, you had not one, but two 454s. You'll have another opportunity to buy a Challenger soon--and it'll knock down mid 13s stock.

John F.

Charlie J · Post by **Charlie J** » Mar 13th, '08, 09:01

harv
i had the 340 in a 1972 challenger, wish i still had it. we had alot of fun running sunrise hwy. good friend of mine was running a 68 road runner with the hemi, what a beast. thos were the days

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 13th, '08, 11:22

cwj wrote:harv
i had the 340 in a 1972 challenger, wish i still had it. we had alot of fun running sunrise hwy. good friend of mine was running a 68 road runner with the hemi, what a beast. thos were the days

Now it's up and down Deer Park Avenue.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 13th, '08, 12:24

30 years ago by me it was the spot on 25A in Fort Salonga just east of Northport where it goes dead straight for a mile or so. I had a '65 GTO 389 4 speed. Friend had a 70 Challenger 383 4 spd in that purple color that peeled (plum crazy--amazing what you can remember) that he spun out and hit a wall backward totalling the car. Lots of Mopar around Northport. That's when a pretty good street car ran 13s, maybe high 12s. Its amazing what they're running now. Ahh-the old days--Westhampton, the NHRA Spring (I think) Nationals (forget where we went--know it was out east).

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Mar 13th, '08, 12:54

John F. wrote:Harv-

But now you'll have a classic boat, and up 'till a little while ago, you had not one, but two 454s.

John F.

Wow, cool Harv, didn't know you dumped the RLDT and got a Hatt. Must a been tough in this market, to get rid of that bayliner wanna be. good for you, and good luck with you new boat.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 13th, '08, 14:06

John F. wrote:30 years ago by me it was the spot on 25A in Fort Salonga just east of Northport where it goes dead straight for a mile or so. I had a '65 GTO 389 4 speed. Friend had a 70 Challenger 383 4 spd in that purple color that peeled (plum crazy--amazing what you can remember) that he spun out and hit a wall backward totalling the car. Lots of Mopar around Northport. That's when a pretty good street car ran 13s, maybe high 12s. Its amazing what they're running now. Ahh-the old days--Westhampton, the NHRA Spring (I think) Nationals (forget where we went--know it was out east).

Shoot, back then there was still a world famous sports car track in Bridgehampton. I've read some outhors saying it was the best sports car track in the world. Now all that stuff, and the potato farms around them, are built up with houses that are way too big for their land.

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 13th, '08, 14:41

I raced motocross there a few times. Great place. I think a few guys here (Mike O and Timmy?) road-raced there.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 13th, '08, 14:54

John F. wrote:I raced motocross there a few times. Great place. I think a few guys here (Mike O and Timmy?) road-raced there.

Raced an RM250 there many times. Also remember racing at Hot Water Street.

Mike O and Timmy- what did you guys race there?

John_ I'll even admit to hunting quail, pheasant, and partridge there. Boy, I must be getting old!

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Mar 13th, '08, 16:55

Harv:

Not to be negative but..........you think the Challenger would have made it.........let's do the math:

20 years old + Dodge Challenger R/T 383 magnum = running into a tree and/or a car in my book....now that's just me.....that's why I got the mom's hand me down 1979 Toyota Corona.....

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 13th, '08, 16:55

John F. wrote:Harv-

But now you have a classic boat, and up 'till a little while ago, you had not one, but two 454s. You'll have another opportunity to buy a Challenger soon--and it'll knock down mid 13s stock.

John F.

John,

You forget, I have 2 boats and three 454's, but only 2 of them work.
My Aspen was a high 11 second car when I used to run it. If I get the chance to get it back on the streets, I won't settle for less than mid 10's, unless I decide to plumb it with some laughing gas.

Thudddddd wrote:Wow, cool Harv, didn't know you dumped the RLDT and got a Hatt. Must a been tough in this market, to get rid of that bayliner wanna be. good for you, and good luck with you new boat.

Timmy, WAKE UP, you were having a dream.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Mar 13th, '08, 17:06

Mike ran Bmw's and Ducatti's. Me, jap bikes and a Ducatti. At the time I was a legend in my own mind , and after my first (and every other outing there) I got off and said I hope they make a BIG F*****G golf course out of this place. I wasn't rally that slow on or scared of any other track I raced, but that place intimidated me. We had a buddy loose a leg there. Got off in the sand and the bike chewed him up.
Mike has a story I'm sure he's dying to tell.....

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Mar 13th, '08, 17:10

Hueso wrote:Harv:

Not to be negative but..........you think the Challenger would have made it.........let's do the math:

20 years old + Dodge Challenger R/T 383 magnum = running into a tree and/or a car in my book....now that's just me.....that's why I got the mom's hand me down 1979 Toyota Corona.....

Hueso,

Prior to getting the new car, I had been driving in mom's hand me down 1970 Nova with a 307 for 3 years. If it had been a 2 door instead of 4 door, I would have kept the Nova. Hell, if mom's first car had been a 2 door, I would have rather had that, it was a 65 4 door box Nova with a 289. Doing the math, I think I would still have the car, seeing that I still have the Aspen. Never hit anything with the car, but did keep blowing up the rear. Having the Callenger, maybe I wouldn't have blown so many rear axles, since it would have been the right axle for the car, as opposed to the original small axle that came with the Aspen, and the various larger axles I've tried to work with. Guess I'll just have to find a Dana 60 next.

Hueso · Post by **Hueso** » Mar 13th, '08, 17:14

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh..........now I know why that Toyota had problems with the transmission.......it did not have a DANA!.......

John F. · Post by **John F.** » Mar 13th, '08, 17:22

...an 11 sec. Aspen with a cut-in sunroof........I raced an RM250 at Bridge also (I think in '76). The road track (like the MX track) seemed to be pretty much a horsepower track. Never was a GM guy until I got my '71 Z-28 (which I sold when I got our current house built). Learned to love the general--love my 454s, but they're 1978s, and gas was 40 cents a gallon then. This year is gonna' hurt. Lots of slow trolling near home.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 13th, '08, 17:47

Bridgehampton, 1995.

I loved it there.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 13th, '08, 21:06

rawleigh sorry i did not get back to you sooner.the bravo x-3 runs a little warm in the trans. at the top of the unit.instead of that tube we drill two 1/2" holes one on either side of the trim plate .then 316ss flex along the contour of the unit on top is a ss "shower cap" that sprinkles the water around the top plate.
the drives you and nic illustrated require transmissions and so does any other surface drives.the 20' bert engine compartment has absolutly no room lenth wise.i must use mercuiser either bravo 2,3 or 5 with trans.in outdrive.engine sits right against back of transom.i will take picture this weekend of the real deal with stern drives.bravo 5 with 6 blade stainless is the best of the best with duel lathem steering.

jspiezio · Post by **jspiezio** » Mar 13th, '08, 22:14

John F. wrote:...an 11 sec. Aspen with a cut-in sunroof........I raced an RM250 at Bridge also (I think in '76). The road track (like the MX track) seemed to be pretty much a horsepower track. Never was a GM guy until I got my '71 Z-28 (which I sold when I got our current house built). Learned to love the general--love my 454s, but they're 1978s, and gas was 40 cents a gallon then. This year is gonna' hurt. Lots of slow trolling near home.

I raced in from 79 till 81, when I left for college. Never picked it up again.

I remember a guy named brad on a YZ250 that used to race out there. Really good rider. I miss that track. Mike, that photo is perfect, just what made it great.

Timmy, I think I was scared anytime and every time I ran a bike on a road track. That seems like just good sense to me, not just a bridgehampton thing!

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Mar 14th, '08, 10:49

Bob: I bid on a Baron in VA Beach that had a 427 with transmission and Alpha drive in it! It was a tight fit and they did have to cut deck in front of the engine hatch, but it was in there!! It floated a little low in the back. A built small block would have been a better setup for that boat.

Rocket · Post by **Rocket** » Mar 14th, '08, 11:04

Bob, Do you want me to get you more detailed dimensions of the Baron's engine compartment? - It looks to me like there is LOTS of room for a BBC in there and height is also not an issue. My bitty litle 350 looks lost in there, I'll snap some photos and take some dimensions, hopefully this weekend, because I'm going away next week.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Mar 14th, '08, 11:47

Bob,

Just go out to Ponquogue Marina and look at mine. Billy Stebelick or Pat Dickson will show you where it is.

Mike

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 14th, '08, 21:37

rawleigh if you can remember rocket`s masterpiece baron would you entertain the idea of cutting the engine compartment doors to put a big block with transmission in there? of course not so you narrow your options to bravo drive only (has trans in sterndrive).i must mention mercruiser makes a very short trans that takes less than a foot. it must be tricked out for 500hp but will work if you go easy on start.rocket,mike i know a big block will fit in height i was just referring to the mercruiser sc.the supercharger with the enderal injection add 2' to the hight of the big block.
ok lets refer to my boat in the prevous post that was the best in the 70into low 1980 era.good for boat max out at 80mph.my superboat is a full race lay up weights 1500lbs.empty hull powered by 500hp big block would love to go over backward doing 75mph in 4' or more seas.the cat in the next post is the next era 100mph cats and 90mph 30'+deep vee in 6' seas they were limited by the prop size that could fit on the bravo even with the first style speedmaster lower unit this is the newer bravo available from mercury racing.this could put a baron at the 100mph mark without blowing out the props like in the past.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 14th, '08, 21:54

i should have mention you would use a single unit of course.hp is no big deal i could give you all you need.small block gm nickle block bore and stroke to 426 cubic inch with run all day at 600hp and this engine weights less that your run of the mill 350ci 260hp.this will easily fit thru the engine hatches with tune port injection (corvette zr-1).
this is a few pictures of the stern drive shop the opposite side of the shop is the same.doing 4 bravo x-3 at the same time ther are about 30 in stock and as you can sea a pile of dual props.

rocket mike thanl you for the offer.rocket give me the height fron stringer to bottom of hatch this will help till i go out east.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Mar 16th, '08, 07:13

350hp engine

Bravo 3 drive, same as Volvo Duoprop.

Top speed 55mph

bertram31.com

yanmar type 6by260z

yanmar type 6by260z

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