B28 hydraulic steering

[Face]

I'm about to install hydraulic steering in my B28. I currently have the rudders out of the boat, rebuilt the rudder shelves. I obviously have to reinstall them for measurements...but was hoping someone here could save me some hassle by recommending an appropriate hydraulic cylinder, system, etc. Anybody have pics of their installation? Where to mount the cylinder? Should I make up the lines myself? If I keep the stock rudders for now, and upgrade to larger ones later, should this affect my choice of steering systems?
-Joe

[scot]

I can't help you with pictures or cyl model recommendations, however I can recommend an economical hose solution.

You can use 3/8" refrigeration grade copper tubing for the long runs. At the helm pump install an NPT x Compression fitting and route the copper from the pump. At the ram install a "compression x compression" 3/8 fitting and run the final couple of feet with flexible high pressure hose, most helm manufactures offer the hose....but it's costly, hence the refrigeration grade copper tubing. Also, I prefer the industrial 3,000# class SS or brass compression fittings, not the hardware store crap. Use Whitey, Swadgeloc or Hoke fittings. Check out their "bulkhead" fittings for a water tight method of running lines thru bulkheads.

This was recommended to me by a marine repair yard and I have used this system for years without a hitch. Don't use the type M copper that is used in plumbing for water service, find a local commercial HVAC supply outlet and get the refrigeration rated copper.

Good luck

[Kingfish]

Joe,

I'm going down to my boat Tues or wed evening. I could take some pix
if you still need them.

The big rudders make all the difference in the world!

By the way I have Hynautic steering, might make a difference, but maybe not.

[Face]

Jim, that would be great if you have the time. I really need to get the oversized rudders. One thing at a time.
-Joe

[Eddy G]

My B28 came from the factory with the Hynautic hydraulic steering. The Helm pump is a H-50 and the ram is a K-19. The ram connects to the starboard tiller on one end and a fixed mount near the port rudder shelf on the other end. Hynautic systems come with a resevoir that mounts in the bilge and requires about 30 lbs of air pressure to return the fluid to the upper station. Mine has heavy wall plastic tubing to plumb the system. Other than a recent seal replacement on the helm and ram by Charman Enterprises 800-247-6324, I've never touched it. I believe most guys upgrading to hydraulic steering are using the SeaStar model that doesn't require the separate resevoir or maintaining air pressure. It holds it's fluid in the helm pump. I also upgraded to Capt. Pat's oversized stainless steel rudders about five years ago and you wouldn't believe the difference they made. Sorry, no pictures at this time.

Eddy G.

[Kingfish]

Hope these help, if you need more info let me know.

[img][img]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194 ... oat041.jpg[/img][/img][img][img]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w194 ... t042-1.jpg[/img][/img]

[Bill Fuller]

Joe

Do lots of research and planning. I am in the process of making the change from mechanical to hydraulic also. Here are a few things to think about.

The helm displacement (cubin inches per revolution) should match up appropriately with the hydraulic cylinder (displacement, cu. in.) If the the helm displaces 1.4 cu. in. /rev. and the hydraulic cylinder displaces 14 cu. in. for complete travel, you have 10 turns of the steering wheel going lock to lock. cylinder displacmetn divided by helm displacement.

What length of travel should the cylinder have. This depends on how you mount it. You need to plan where you will be moving the tillers. will your point of attachment be 8 inches from the center of the rudder post (mine is currently), will you change this to 6 inches or something else. Our rudders use about a 70 degree deflection, lock to lock. 35 degrees each way measured at the tiller. If you push from 8 inches out, you need a cylinder with about 9 inches of travel. 6 inches out about 7 inches of travel, 4.5 or so to get 5 inch travel. You get the idea. You need to paln and match all of these components.

Since there is realitively little room in the B28 dash, you will be limited to what helm you can use. The SeaStar is what I will be using and has established a good reputation. I am using the rear mount model so as to keep the steering wheel in as close to the current location (distance from dash) as possible. This helm is available in at least three different displacements.

I will be using a SeaFirst hydrualic cylinder. These can be viewed and obtained at Seaboard Marine (sbmar.com, Tony Athens). I suggest you take a look at these on the Seaboard website. Really nice units.

Also try to avoid the use of 90 degree fittins when possible. They create friction and make the wheel a bit harder to turn, especially if you have a number of them.

If you are planning to install an autopilot, you should plan for that now also. I will be using the drive pump for the autopilot, once again, obtained from Seaboard. A really high qulity unit (Accu-Steer). I will be using a Simrad autopilot, but not sure which one yet. I would like to use the new AP24 but it does not seem to be available just yet. I may end up with an AP16.

FYI, my rudders have been changed to over size and the tillers are on top of the rudder shelf (ala B31). I will be moving my tie rod attachment point to the 6 inch point on the tillers and pushing the tie rod with a 7 inch throw cylinder. Mounted similar to Jims, but everything moved inboard. Once done I will get some pictures. The cylinder I am using is the Seafirst HC125 B-7C. 6.7 inch displacement volume. The helm is 1.7 cu. in./rev. so lock to lock will be about 4 turns. Currently lock to lock is 3 turns with the cable.

Hope this helps

Bill

[Face]

Thank you, that's the kind of advice and thought I was looking for.
-Joe