New fuel system question

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Jan 16th, '08, 13:23

Would it be OK to put an outbord style fuel primer ball in the fuel line to fill the fuel filters after replacing them. engines are Cummins210Hp and fuel inlet size is only 3/8 in.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 16th, '08, 16:21

I have the same engines. Your input side of the Racors should have shut-off valves on them so there is no backflow or air intrusion. When you take off the top of the Racor, remove the filter, dump the bowl fuel and replace the filter, you now have an empty Racor which has to be manually filled right up to the top before the cap is reinstalled. At this point, you can reopen the input valve and you have retained an air-free fuel line. I'm afraid an outboard type bulb would need air to work or might otherwise allow air to get into your fuel line, which on a diesel is a problem. I had an almost invisible hairline crack on the bottom of one Racor bowl. It was so small it didn't leak. Yet if you came back to the boat after a few days away and started it, it would die after less than a minute of running. Then it took a LOT of cranking to get fuel up to the injectors again. Seems the prime got broken by the slow intrusion of air through the crack, and the fuel ran back to the tank. Once started, it didn't haoppen again all day, but the next time I came to the boat, it happened all over again. I changed EVERYTHING from the Racor to the injector pump in my attempt to correct it. It wasn't until my son was standing in front of the engine when I was cranking it and saw bubbles in the racor bowl that we discovered the culprit. Hence my concern for anything in the fuel line system that might let air in. One man's experience. Walter

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 16th, '08, 16:57

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jan 16th, '08, 17:46

You sure Bruce? You seem to be leaving more room for debate than usual.....

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 16th, '08, 18:26

I'm having battery problems in the tin foil hat and looking at alternative fuel sources to keep my carbon footprint down.

What power I do have has been interupted by the galactic alert messages comming in from Orions Belt over the "Unauthorized Biography of Tom Cruise".
This has some people very high up in the time/space continuum very upset.

Since the power loss has reduced my gamma wave Neptunal receptions that are continuously present during low voltage fast neocortical activity which are involved in higher mental activity, I have to keep my answers short till I develop new power sources.

I need to take a nap now.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jan 16th, '08, 18:35

Perhaps a solar panel hat.........

(if only he had used his powers for good, instead of evil.....)

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 16th, '08, 18:43

How would I operate the hat at night during the peak signal times?

I tried strapping a couple of 8d batteries around my waist for night use but it kept pulling my pants down.

The brothers would then call me homey or esse which lead to a whole other set of problems.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jan 16th, '08, 19:56

Seems like all roads lead back to the GPU. We'll have to get Vic to design a portable model.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Jan 16th, '08, 20:05

I think this thread was highjacked. Against the rules................
Brings back memories....
Sean?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 16th, '08, 21:36

Prof, funny you mention the portable GPU, I been thinking the same thing now that I have time on my hands.......now is the season when the grosbeaks hatch out, so there are lots of little ones, so shrinking the design is a do-able thing. I'll put some time in on it and wiring it up to the tin foil hat should be a snap, maybe go wireless. We could put Hugo and the arabs out of the oil business with a little carry-around GPU.

UV

nic · Post by **nic** » Jan 16th, '08, 21:54

You could power the portable GPU by pumping all those spare outboard primer balls we got now that Bruce says we have to take them out of our diesel fuel lines.

Not hi-jacked Andre, full circle.

Nic

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Jan 16th, '08, 21:58

UV,

Is that "do-able" or "do-do-able"???

Here's another possible power source:

National Geographic News
August 18, 2005

Before you next flush the toilet, consider this: Scientists in Singapore have developed a battery powered by urine.

Researchers at the Institute of Bioengineering and Nanotechnology created the credit card-size battery as a disposable power source for medical test kits.

Scientists have been scrambling to create smaller, more efficient, and less expensive "biochips" to test for diseases such as diabetes. Until now, however, similarly small batteries to power the devices remained elusive.

Diagnostic test kits commonly analyze the chemical composition of a person's urine to detect a malady. Ki Bang Lee and his colleagues realized that the substance being testedâ€”urineâ€”could also power the test.

"In order to address this problem, we have designed a disposable battery on a chip, which is activated by biofluids such as urine," Lee wrote in an e-mail to National Geographic News.

The research team describes the battery in the current issue of the Journal of Micromechanics and Microengineering.

Daniel Kammen, director of the Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, said the technology is a welcome innovation in a time of rising energy prices.

"All jokes [about] urine aside, what is needed are low-cost batteries. â€¦" he said. "The other neat thing about this is the fact that it's basically a biodegradable battery."

Urine Power

To make the battery, Lee and his colleagues soaked a piece of paper in a solution of copper chloride and sandwiched it between strips of magnesium and copper. This sandwich was then laminated between two sheets of transparent plastic.

When a drop of urine is added to the paper through a slit in the plastic, a chemical reaction takes place that produces electricity, Lee said.

The prototype battery produced about 1.5 volts, the same as a standard AA battery, and runs for about 90 minutes. Researchers said the power, voltage, and lifetime of the battery can be improved by adjusting the geometry and materials used.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Jan 16th, '08, 22:29

Now if the "slit" where you deposit the urine was designed correctly, I might give it a try, or pimp it.

UV

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Jan 16th, '08, 23:59

Just installing a pair of new spin-on fuel filters and not sure if simply filling them almost to the top will be enough and dont want to learn the hard way at sea.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Jan 17th, '08, 01:06

After reading this thread, I think that I'll take a whiz off of the gback deck and not really worry about the urine content that's usable or not. Good night, all.

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Jan 17th, '08, 02:36

CaptPatrick wrote:UV,

Is that "do-able" or "do-do-able"???

Here's another possible power source:

National Geographic News
August 18, 2005

Before you next flush the toilet, consider this: Scientists in Singapore have developed a battery powered by urine.

Researchers at the Institute of Bioengineering and Nanotechnology created the credit card-size battery as a disposable power source for medical test kits.

Scientists have been scrambling to create smaller, more efficient, and less expensive "biochips" to test for diseases such as diabetes. Until now, however, similarly small batteries to power the devices remained elusive.

Diagnostic test kits commonly analyze the chemical composition of a person's urine to detect a malady. Ki Bang Lee and his colleagues realized that the substance being testedâ€”urineâ€”could also power the test.

"In order to address this problem, we have designed a disposable battery on a chip, which is activated by biofluids such as urine," Lee wrote in an e-mail to National Geographic News.

The research team describes the battery in the current issue of the Journal of Micromechanics and Microengineering.

Daniel Kammen, director of the Renewable and Appropriate Energy Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, said the technology is a welcome innovation in a time of rising energy prices.

"All jokes [about] urine aside, what is needed are low-cost batteries. â€¦" he said. "The other neat thing about this is the fact that it's basically a biodegradable battery."

Urine Power

To make the battery, Lee and his colleagues soaked a piece of paper in a solution of copper chloride and sandwiched it between strips of magnesium and copper. This sandwich was then laminated between two sheets of transparent plastic.

When a drop of urine is added to the paper through a slit in the plastic, a chemical reaction takes place that produces electricity, Lee said.

The prototype battery produced about 1.5 volts, the same as a standard AA battery, and runs for about 90 minutes. Researchers said the power, voltage, and lifetime of the battery can be improved by adjusting the geometry and materials used.

Sounds like somone's pissin into the wind.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 17th, '08, 08:13

Drifter,

Even with the primer bulb, air in the system would have to be bled out.

The problem with the primer direct inline is that it has a check ball inside that one can become disloged and block fuel flow, two won't work at all and three will restrict fuel flow.

If you want a bulb for a priming system, install it as a bypass.

Filling the spin on is good, but knowing how to bleed out the system is essential for quick recoveries. Your not always going to be able to fill up a spin on at sea, with a primer bulb you'll need to crack the bleed and let the air out.

If your not sure how to plumb in as a bypass, if you could take a pic of your primary filter system and post, I'll tell you how.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I had a Timmy moment.

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Jan 18th, '08, 12:39

Thanks Bruce......I know how to plumb like a bypass with two tee's and three small ball valves. I read recently where Tony @ Sebold marine said on low flow engines he has been doing it in line and as a bypass fow 15yrs. Are you saying the check ball may fail due to crud in diesel fuel?
Also doesnt the primer bulb fill an outbord filter and system completly and displace the air in the filter assembly? If so why not on a diesel. Please bear with me on this since all i am used to is Racor"s

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 18th, '08, 18:07

Drifter,
There are some mechanics who use primer bulbs inline on diesel.

I don't. My work is a reflection on me. Using anything but proper methods and materials is selling my customers short.

There is always a cheaper method for doing things. And many people choose that route.

The check ball doesn't fail from crud for the most part unless its installed pre primary filter, it just fails because its made of rubber and plastic and cost 5 bucks.

On an older OB, the air in the system will vent thru the carb. Gas goes into the bowl and the air in the lines vents out thru the jet venturi.

On injection, if enough air, you can air lock and not start. the high flow/high pressure pumps will on return systems pass air back to the tank. On closed circulation systems, too much air will lock it up and there is a tire valve wher you bleed it from in the system.

Some diesels will with an electric pump send the air back to the tank. Depends on the injection pump and return design on the injectors. Cummins is not one of those engines.

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Jan 19th, '08, 11:02

OK Bruce....One more question. I will plumb it in the bypass way right off the tank to fill a pair of spin on style filters. The filters are only 1ft from the tank.How should i vent the air? I know this is a basic stupid question but i am used to racors and spin ons are new to me.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jan 19th, '08, 12:13

I have racors and spin-on filters. The spin ons are right on the engine and come after the fuel runs through the racors. Once the fuel line is shut off before the racors, you can spin off, fill up the new ones and spin them on with no bleeding procedure at all. You have another set of spin-ons one foot off the tank? Walter

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jan 19th, '08, 17:57

Depends on the make of the spin on's. Some have a vent screw on the housing.
Some have dual in and outs. Use the second out and put a valve you can open and vent air till you get fuel.

Not knowing what exactly you have is difficult in figuring out how to bleed.

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New fuel system question

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