60s hulls vs 70s hulls for total refit

[Hogula]

Gents, I am new to this forum but looking to buy a B31. I live on the west coast so pickings are pretty slim but I have a few to choose from. There is a 62 FBC and a 76 FBC for sale. Is there any big difference in the hulls as far as thickness, more wood to replace, etc that I should know about? I'm probably going to do a total refit anyway with diesels but just want to have the best place to start. Thanks

[In Memory Walter K]

To the best of my knowledge, the earlier models have the heaviest hulls due to the lack of knowledge as to how much was enough. Bertram opted for more rather than less. On the flip side, the earlier models had more freeboard in the cockpit as a result of smaller fuel tanks. If I am not mistaken 160 gallons vs later 200+ which raised the decks several inches. Walter

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

1962 was a "Very Good Year", as old Blue-eyes would have said. Heavier, soldi hull. Will probably run slower, but solid, very solid.

[Mikey]

Agree with Capt Mike. My '63's hull is 1 1/8" thick at the stern, just bored through for a garboard drain. IF it is truly a total refit check the stringers, everything else is reletively easy to replace. I know from personal experience as have replaced everything but the cabin.

[Brewster Minton]

I have a 66 hull and it is very thick. Its all about the stringers.If their good everything else is easy.

[CaptPatrick]

To All,

There seams to be a bit of misconception about the stringers in a 31 Bertram...

Bertram used pre-cut sections of 3/4" marine plywood as permanant forms to glass up the stringers. The thickness of the glass roving over these forms is considerable and the structural strength of the stringer is NOT dependant on the integrity of the wood. The wood can be dry, moist, wet, & even rotten without affecting the strength.

The only cause for alarm would come from the stringer's tabbing. If the tabbing were to start delaminating from the hull THEN you'd need to correct this problem immediately, but I've never seen any evidence of stringer to hull delamination.

Br,

Patrick

[Capt. Mike Holmes]

Pat, thanks for getting this out in the open. I never worried about mine, although various people suggested I beat hell out of them to check.

[John Jackson]

I'm redoing my '61 and one thing I have learned is that the gel coat on the older boats tend to craze. I think it had to do with the formula that they used which I have been told continues to cure to this day which causes it to craze. I think they fixed this issue in later years but I don't know which year. It is an expensive fix. Paint jobs can hide it but it will eventually come through the paint. I'm told that the only way to fix the problem is to sand off all of the gel coat and either re-gel coat or fair with epoxy and repaint.

[Pete Fallon]

I've owned a 1961 Express for 28 years Hull 186, the earlier hulls were built like tanks, personally I wouldn't have anything built after 1972 (first oil embargo). The hull bottom design was changed, lifting strakes at the bow are different on the early 1960's boats. Capt Pat and I personally measured the difference between mine and a 1970's vintage that were stored next to each other in the marina in Florida. As for hull lay-up, there are 23 layers of glass at keel in a 1964 model, I counted them on the 31 that hit the jetty in Palm Beach a few years ago. The hull sides at the starboard stern quarter 1" below the rub rail is 5/8" thick, transom garboard drain is 1 3/8" and 2 3/4" at keel bottom under fuel tank.
Heavy construction is why these boats are still around, the stringers even if wet or dry are only fillers and forms for the heavy glass laminate. The hull is free standing with bulkheads only providing minuim hull strength.
I've seen a 31 completely knocked of the stands by a tracor trailer, the only damage was a bent rudder and one shaft. UV can vouch for the heavy lay-up hull after his boat made match sticks of the boats near him during Katrina.

[Hogula]

Gents, thanks for all the good info. The one I'm looking at is here

http://www.marineemporium.com/html/31BERTRAM.html

I don't know how to link properly, sorry. Anyway, I talked to the broker and this boat had an offer on it that just fell through and he said the owner really wants to move it. Any opinions?

[In Memory of Vicroy]

At that price, buy it now. Looks complete to me, the iron may be garbage, but the boat is worth the asking price even with suspect iron in the bilge. Buy it.

UV

[Hogula]

Vicroy, I'm hoping he will accept a lowball offer and I get it for way less than that. Thanks for the input.

[chris walter]

Buy It! Now!

[John Jackson]

This boat is very similar to the one I have which is also a Sportfish but is a 1961, hull no 168. Be careful of the gel coat. Be careful of the direct drive transmissions. If you repower you will have to upgrade your shafts, and all running gear unless you replace with right and left engines which they don't make new anymore, as far as I know. How are the decks and all of the tabbing and the plywood bulkheads? Does it still have a fiberglass tank? Mine was also $35,000, and while I could have run it like it was for a few more years I could not resist doing a complete redo. When I bought mine two people who know B-31s inside and out told me to buy one from the 70's so I wouldn't have gel coat issues and even better get one where someone else spent all the money to fix it up. The boat you show looks good in the pictures, but unless it has been rebuilt and rebuilt well it may have issues. It even looks like it has the old style original engine boxes, which I have heard described but which I have never actually seen before. The boat is made with a lot of plywood, which if original or even replaced 20 years ago has spent a lot of time in a wet or damp environment. With 200 gallons and gas your safe range is around 150 miles, so keep that in mind. I never used close to that fishing inshore in NJ with my Crusader 454s but then I got it in my head that I want to go to the canyon. PS: I was satisfied with mine until I spent a lot of time looking at others that were in Bristol condition and I decided to repower to give it canyon range with Cummins 270 Bs and restore it. I love what I'm doing but it is expensive and I would have saved a lot if I bought a beauty already done up. I have seen Capt. Patrick give very similar advice. Want a hardtop? Around here your looking at ten grand. Want radar that you can see birds with? Want a state of the art fishfinder? Want a powder blue hull? Want a nice new gas tank that won't be eaten by the gas with corn in it? Want a nice newfangled rubrail? Get your wallet out. I would not have done it any other way but I have another boat to fish with in the mean time and I have lots of friends with boats that I can still fish with while mine is in the shed. Plus I live about two miles from the yard and I can work on the boat whenever I have the time and energy. From a strictly cost effective standpoint, I think it would be much wiser to get one that's been done. If you buy an old one, be prepared to spend a lot and you better love being covered with dirt and sweat and having nicked up hands and forearms! Most important, you better have a yard that you fully trust and have confidence in.

[Hogula]

John, Thanks very much for the advice. I used to think I wanted a project but the more I think about it, the more I want something like the Fighting Angel, that has already been restored. The local yard is 4 miles from my house and they'd charge $450/mo just to keep her up on blocks. And of course everything is expensive in CA. The repower guy told me to plan on $70K for the Yanmar 315s if that is all they do. More for mounts, stringers, exhaust, shafts, seals, etc. I would spend $200K on that thing and have a boat like FA, that I could get for $159 (plus $8K to truck her across country)

See ya

[CaptPatrick]

Hogula,

Now you're thinkin' right!!

Br,

Patrick

[John Jackson]

Did you search the internet to get an idea of the market? If you go to most broker's web pages they have a link that says "search the internet 4 more boats." If you hit the link and enter the B-31 info it will give you lots of listings with lots of details. I just did it from Brightwater Yacht Broker's web site and there are 71 listings. You can filter and sort by price, type etc, but if you just enter make as Bertram and put 31 in the from and to section, you will get all of the listings for comparison. This will give you an idea of what you can get for different prices. To give you an idea of what you are in for if you redo yours and the surprises you'll find, here is one little example. When I took my gas tank out (which was aluminum, about 14 years old and getting pitted) it was bedded in a blue granular resin blob that filled the whole midsection and was of galactic strength. It took me about 8 hours with a chisel and a hammer and a grinder to get it all out. The rudder bedding and rudder shelf bedding was the same story, just less of it. Those two issues are just the tip of the ice berg.

[JP Dalik]

Hogula.
Buy the Angel or the old Fortuna(if still available), these boats have been redone and have new or close to new power plants. When we picked up Chimera last year it was a basket case, we bought the boat cause it already had new engines, we paid what the engines would of cost us and got a free boat.
Free is a relative term of course we are around 105 (not counting labor) into the boat today and still need to yank engines, add a gennie, redo deck supports and finish the interior.
Knowing first hand what it takes to bring a boat that was fishable and in fair shape up to todays standards you should only start the project knowing you'll be 50% over budget and that it will be almost twice as long to finish than you originally thought.
If your dead set on a project then try and find a boat with new power that needs work. If the running gear and beds are in good shape you can focus on the fun stuff. Rub rails, front cowels, pipe work, riggers etc..... $159,000 starting to sound pretty cheap about now....

Good Luck we'll be here to help answer questions, even if you don't like the answers.

[mike ohlstein]

I paid 37,500 for mine and currently have about 135,000 or slightly more in it. I have yet to touch the interior.

Given enough time and effort, even a labor of love can turn into pure labor.

If you want your boat to be 'just so'......buy a beater and do the work. But don't let anyone tell you otherwise.....the operative word is 'work'.

[Garry]

Mike,

As usual your comments are right on target....


Garry

[steve miller]

That's a mighty nice looking Bertram for $35,000. I'm gonna go with the flow here- buy it, now!!

[Hogula]

Gents,

I just got back from a dove hunting trip in Yuma (110 in the shade). Thanks for all the good advice. The already refurbished up boat sounds like the way to go to me. I like a project but not that much and just the storage at the marina is expensive. Plus (correct me if I'm wrong) it seems to be a buyers market. There are at least 90 for sale on the internet and they don't seem to be moving. Is the high cost of gas causing people to unload their beloved B31s?

I'm crunching numbers and hoping for the best.

Hog

[ed c.]

A friend of mine brought a 72 model for $26k about 3 years ago. The boat in the pictures looks like its in better condition then his . He had 454's in it, he is now changing over to diesels. Good Luck

[JPRS51]

Gents, I am new to this forum but looking to buy a B31. I live on the west coast so pickings are pretty slim but I have a few to choose from. There is a 62 FBC and a 76 FBC for sale. Is there any big difference in the hulls as far as thickness, more wood to replace, etc that I should know about? I'm probably going to do a total refit anyway with diesels but just want to have the best place to start. Thanks

What about the '76 you mentioned that was also an option?

[Hogula]

The 76 is actually a 73, my memory failed me that day. I inspected this boat in person and it looks great.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... oto=1&url=

[mike ohlstein]

Looks like it was never fished.

What's the do-hickey in the cockpit?

[Hogula]

Its the livewell. West Coast fishing is more about stand up, move around the rails type fishing so a lot of people put the livewell in the middle of the cockpit. It's actually a pretty nice setup but it looks like crap.