New marine diesel

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 5th, '07, 07:38

I was contatcted by this company to give opinions on the design and probability of market share.

I've talked to their marketing rep and the owner and inventer of the company/engine.

Very smart guy.

The engine design is like a lycoming in as the cylinders are all individual and can be replaced without tearing the whole engine down, but it is water cooled.

The cooling system is not a stack design, IE it doesn't start at the front and work its way back. There is a water jacket on the side that distributes the water to each cylinder at the same temp.

The turbo housing is bronze and will be cooled with sea water leaving the cooling system heat exchnager system to be as small as possible.

HP up to 650 range. All engines will use the same bore and stroke.

Cam can be pulled from front or rear.

Mike designed the engine to be real easy to serviced.

Dual injectors for better fuel economy.

Many other attributes including a very narrow width.

He should have a running model by the end of the year and I will be going up to look at it.

Here's the web site. Take a look and let me know what you guys think both from a consumer point and practical application.

He already knows that a good dealer network is essential and that there will be no distributors, only dealers. This way there is no middle markup man.

http://www.buckdiesel.com/

davidms · Post by **davidms** » Nov 5th, '07, 08:32

Bruce,

Any idea on how much the engines are going to weigh?

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 5th, '07, 08:46

Very cool

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Nov 5th, '07, 08:56

Bruce,
It looks fascinating to me. The idea and concept sound very good. Kinda makes me wonder why the simplicity of that modular design has ot been used in anything I have seen.

The first question that comes to mind would be, is it an interference motor?
Looking at the pictures I noticed two holes, one each side of the what I beleive to be where the main bearings would be. Is it like a two bolt main design? I would be curious to read more about these. You know me, I like try things that are not as mainstream as long as they sound good.

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Nov 5th, '07, 09:00

Looks good so far....But i hope the water cooled ex. manifold is not vunerable. Meaning if it cracks the coolant hopefully will go down hill.

scot · Post by **scot** » Nov 5th, '07, 09:12

Bruce,

I like it, althought it makes too much sense to ever get off the ground. I have a bunch of experience with the air cooled Lombardini diesel and they are excellent engines (similar modular design) I assume a primary asset is the capacity to "re-hole" one, or all in place....i.e. swapping out a jug & piston as required.

Thumbs up.

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 5th, '07, 10:20

Conceptually makes an awful lot of sense to me. Especially on matters of major repairs and simplicity of part replacement and dealer inventory of same. The obvious curiosity about performance, price and fuel consumption come next, but it sure feels like the right time for this kind of product. Walter

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 5th, '07, 11:52

Mikey likes it ! This one, anyway.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 5th, '07, 14:26

I particularly like what I see in the pics.........AMERICAN,S working to build AMERICA..........

I think its a great idea.............

Lets hope they are very successful and keep it at HOME

Harry

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Nov 5th, '07, 19:18

My B20 would love a three hole diesel......

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Nov 5th, '07, 20:02

So would mine...

randall · Post by **randall** » Nov 5th, '07, 22:21

mike ohlstein wrote:My B20 would love a three hole diesel......

which one?

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Nov 6th, '07, 07:49

exactly...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 6th, '07, 12:12

Being made on Haas machining centers too.

A modular engine so to speak, I like the idea, the simplicity and overall design. Are they making there own fuel pump as well, don't remember seeing anything about that. Any word on performace and pricing?

Small company thou... great when you need to incorporate a change, but can be problematic if they should find hard times, competing with the big boys can create hard times. I'd be slightly leary to hand over some cash on a startup.

I'd like to hear more. Just for personal interest, since...money is not exactly flowing freely from the tap jus yet, the money tree has yet to blume, the dough has yet to rise, the money printer needs toner, the...

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Nov 6th, '07, 12:58

2-1/2 on the pickup...starting to sound like a jet drive. 300hp from three cylinders...wow it sounds really interesting.

Who wants to be the first to have a 31 with a pair of three bangers? Well the engines would be light for sure with plenty of room to work around.

clay · Post by **clay** » Nov 6th, '07, 14:04

Here is all I could find on weight/HP

NC Company to Build Compact, Lightweight, High HP Marine Diesel Engine

A North Carolina engine manufacturer, Carolina Power and Performance, will soon be producing a new line of marine diesel engines - the Buck Engine. After more than two years of R&D, dynomometer testing, and prototype design, the Buck engines will be offered in two distinct lines. One a 4-cylinder "Thunderbolt" line and the other the 6-cylinder "Lightning" line. The first available for the market is the 4-cylinderThunderbolt MI (mechanically injected) unit, which will weigh just under 995 lbs and develop over 350 flywheel horsepower and 700 foot pounds of torque. The 6-cylinder Lightning version will develop more than 500 HP and over 1,000 foot-pounds of torque.

Both engine lines are turbo charged with after cooled engine, offered with sleeved cylinders and are configured with 316 stainless steel tubes, high capacity oil cooler, balanced rotating assembly, fresh water-cooling, compact design, and a two year complete warranty The company anticipates that the compact design of these engines will appeal to boat owners and be an excellent replacement for 350 Chevy Mercruisers as well as other comparable size engines â€“ leaving engine room to spare. For more information, visit www.carolinaspeed.com or call 252-215-1252 and ask for Mike Buck.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 6th, '07, 17:28

Somebody asked about the aluminum material for the block VS strength.

There is no problem as long as the engineering is done properly.

Keith Black Hemi's are aluminum blocks and under the influence of nitro can produce 8000 hp from 500+ cubic inches.

A buddy had bought 2 KB hemi's for his funny car, used of course as new is way out of his price range.
Both were nitro motors, one had been windowed and was sent back to KB, a new block patch welded in place and the engine is fine.

I was assembling it a few weekends ago and thought how easy it is to repair aluminum vs cast iron, although the bottom end comming apart on marine engines is very, very rare.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 6th, '07, 17:43

Bruce, since I saw your post yesterday I have been in touch with Mike Buck about doing an article on the engine concept. Southern Boating has agreed to let me run about an 850 word "Engine Room" piece. It could be good for Buck diesels to get print, and informative for readers who may not have eyt heard about the engines - as none of us on this site would have without your heads up. I would like to include your opinons on this engine concept, if you don't mind, as an expert with no finger in the pie.

Waiting on Mike to tell me what he wants to concentrate on, and to hear back from the editor on when it could be in print.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 6th, '07, 18:02

Very kind of you Mike. No problem using anything I've said.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 6th, '07, 19:13

I saw how hard it was for Steyr to bring you into the fold - you're not a guy who gives his approval without good, sound reasons. We all appreciate that.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 6th, '07, 21:12

Sounds like an awful lot of horsepower from such a small block.........300 HP from a 3 cylinder?????...........better have a bottom end built like a Sherman tank.

Caterpillar kept boosting the horse power on one of their 6 cylinders (3406 I think) until they litterally smashed out the rod bearings in about 2000 hours.........the fix was to redesigned the engine by increasing the crankpin width considerably.

Getting that much horsepower out of a small block makes me think of outboard motors.............you will never see an outboard motor with 10,000 hours..........not even close........

I am certainly encouraged to see that someone here in our Great Country is stepping out to bring design and manufacturing back to life. I just hope Mike don't shoot himself in the foot by trying to be to impressive right out of the chute.

Lets hope that Mike is really a modren day Dick Bertram.......and equally successful

Hey Sim did you hear about our good friend Gene Haas?????? Not exactly condoning his actions but the same government that is nailing Gene to the cross allows foreign companies to send inferior, unsafe products to our country...............not holding foreigners to the same standards that we are held to.........lead laden paint on childrens toys..........yet the bastards still collected their money.

Quote from USA Today

LOS ANGELES (AP) â€” A NASCAR team owner pleaded guilty Monday to defrauding the government of more than $34 million in taxes.
Gene Haas, the 54-year-old owner of Oxnard-based Haas Automation and NASCAR's Haas CNC Racing, agreed to pay a fine, back taxes and interests totaling more than $70 million, the U.S. Attorney's office said.

Haas pleaded guilty to a felony conspiracy charge for orchestrating a plan to list bogus expenses that could be written off as business costs and save Haas Automation millions in taxes.

Harry

scot · Post by **scot** » Nov 6th, '07, 21:59

Bruce,

Thanks for sharing this with the group. I have completely comsumed the site and signed up for some more data, etc. Maybe my 25 Bertram in-line inboard conversion with a 300hp 4 cylinder? I REALLY like the low RPM, high torque aspect, I'm interested to say the least.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 6th, '07, 22:16

Scott, figured you would be. Sounds like a return to traditional diesel performance and advantages, with needed updates.

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 11th, '07, 09:58

My name is Mike Buck and I will be happy to answer your questions on the new Buck Diesel engine.

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 11th, '07, 10:19

Welcome, Mike. I think you'll find the guys on this board to be very knowledgeable, intelligent, and fairly open minded - especially to a good idea. Since many of your ideas seem to represent improvements to existing diesel technology, any discussion here can probably be considered as much about diesel science itself as it would be a "plug" for your product.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 11th, '07, 10:24

Mike,

Welcome aboard!

Seems like there are several questions already asked, (above, Kevin, DRIFTER, David), that you could start with.

We all wish you the best of success with this engine design...

Br,

Patrick

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 11th, '07, 10:36

I saw a question about the injection pump. It's a Bosch HP CR pump. As for the bottom end of these engines. All the bearing are larger than the C Cummins. This means that the journals are bigger.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 11th, '07, 11:39

Good morning Mike
Welcome aboard..........thanks for addressing my statment about the "bottom end".....sounds impressive.

As I said in an earlier post..........I am very excited to see you making a big effort to rekindle American Engineering and Manufacturing (a very important subject to me)

Go boy

Harry Babb

scot · Post by **scot** » Nov 11th, '07, 14:21

Hi Mike, welcome.

I have taken on a couple of trips throught your site....how about some weights & HP ranges available per cyl configuration?

Thanks and best of luck to you and your new adventure.

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 13th, '07, 14:28

Exact weight and HP are not available yet but we think we will be able to make 100hp per cylinder with no problem. The weight for the 3,4,and 6 should come in around 950, 1150 and 1550. At 78CI per cylinder the HP per CI is much less than Yanmar. Engine life has a great deal to do with design geometry. The 1.75 to 1 rod length to stroke ratio we will use, means less piston side loading and thus less cylinder wear. Larger main and rod journals should improve the life as well.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 13th, '07, 14:41

Mike - thanks for that info......I'm assuming your engine is 4 cycle, and what are you doing about the inherient harmonic vibration on a 4 stroke, 4 cylinder diesel?

UV

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 13th, '07, 15:31

Yes, they are all 4 stroke. We will offer very good isolation mounts and the new CR fuel system with pilot injection will also help the 4. Liquid filled dampeners are standard as well.

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Nov 14th, '07, 09:33

Hey Mike Buck........Are you going to run into emission problems with our pain in the ass govt? Hope not. New concepts from the little guy are just what this country needs. Good luck Troy Danos

nestorpr · Post by **nestorpr** » Nov 14th, '07, 12:16

Excellent idea, hope it pans out. I've heard that odd-cylinder engines (i.e. 3, 5, 7) are inherently vibration free, any plans on a 5 cylinder unit?

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 14th, '07, 12:41

Yes we are planning a 5 cylinder in the future. What would you guys think about an in-line 8 for larger boats. Narrow footprint and easy to get arround. Drifter, the emmision issues are there for everyone to deal with but meeting them should actually be easier for us due to our fuel system and cooling ability.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 14th, '07, 14:03

Mike,

I like the sound of a 5 cylinder, (got a Vortec 5 in my GMC Canyon & love it...), but could the HP be kept down to under 320 HP on a 5 cylinder without redesigning the wheel? Maybe via the fuel pump volume... 320 HP is about the maximum that the B31 will handle without serious modifications being made to the hull, (prop pockets, ugggghhh...)

Br,

Patrick

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 14th, '07, 14:23

Engine HP is related to a number of things but when diesel fuel delivery is increased the cylinder burns hotter and heat is power. As you turn up the fuel it becomes an issue of whether or not the design can stand the power. Turning the fuel down has the opposite effect. With the new CR engine the fuel map can be changed fairly easy and the power lowered to where you want it. I've seen a 440 Yanmar turned up to 550 with the turn of a screw. Of course the valve seats dropped out in just a few minnutes of running at that power.

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Nov 14th, '07, 15:51

I think many larger boats (of course it depends on how large you're talking) don't have the room to fit an in-line 6, let alone and in-line 8. I'm pretty sure the 37, 42, and 46 Berts all went with DD's V92 series (6 for the 37 and 42, 8 for the 46) due to engine room restictions.

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Nov 14th, '07, 17:20

Your right, it wouldn't work well for repowers. But for new boats that were designed for it, I think it would be great. The additional room both inboard and outboard of the engines would be welcomed. Due to the 45 degree throw spacing, I think it would also run smooth as silk.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 14th, '07, 17:47

Smoothest engines I ever had were a pair of Chrysler straight 8 flathead WW2 army tank engines in a Hickock 45 that was built in 1947. They are still running today in the hands of the guy I sold the boat to some 25 years ago.

I think there would be a market for 800 hp engines in that configuration, especially if they turn out to hold up better than the dreaded DD 92s.

UV

Mbiggerstaff · Post by **Mbiggerstaff** » Nov 29th, '07, 17:50

I actually live in Greenville and went down to see Mike and the engines last tuesday. I was VERY impressed. Mike was busy so I spent time talking to his son Kevin. They just about have the 6 together. I have a 28 so I was asking a lot of questions about the 3 and 4. The engines are put together like tanks. I can't wait for the dyno test.

Kingfish · Post by **Kingfish** » Nov 29th, '07, 20:37

Lets see, 3 cyl. 300 HP x 2 = 600 HP.

My 28' would be a rocket ship!

randall · Post by **randall** » Nov 29th, '07, 23:01

my 25 would be considerably faster...hey i can dream

scot · Post by **scot** » Dec 3rd, '07, 23:18

Randall our 25's would fly with 1 300hp 3 cyl at 950lbs....what in the world would we do with 600hp worth of diesel in them. As long as we're dreaming, I can't image the cockpit space with a narrow single 3 cyl in my boat. Although I believe it would actually be too light in my configuration...the stern has to have something pushing it down aft of the COB. Maybe add an TD507A. I would consider that bullet proof.

Mike I have to say I'm very interested and I hope they don't end up in the category of "if you have to ask how much....you can't afford it". But hey, nobody goes out on a limb and bets the farm to loose money! I'm hoping you do very well.

Good Luck, we're all excited to see these Modern Marvels in some of our boats.

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Dec 4th, '07, 06:45

I think we should be competitive with ones like Cummins or Cat on a dollars per HP basis. When repairs are necessary our engine could cost half of what others would be.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Dec 4th, '07, 07:13

Mike,
I hope your getting good feedback from the group.

I also hope to make it up your way sometime after the first of the year.

Bruce

kmb 1949 · Post by **kmb 1949** » Jul 8th, '09, 13:43

New video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnFOy5qtITc

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Jul 8th, '09, 14:11

Sweet!! Faster than NASCAR!!! Nice engine! Any idea of when you might start production?

In Memory Walter K · Post by **In Memory Walter K** » Jul 8th, '09, 15:03

Absolutely great! The Germans were supposed to have something like this on their tanks if I am not mistaken. Allowed them to make on the field repairs/replacements. Sure as hell a great advantage on a boat. Non bleed fuel system? Even better.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 8th, '09, 16:25

Since I'm in the trenches and being the devils advocate I am, how about a video of the same procedure with the engine in place in a boat and without the use of compressed air tools as most mechanics don't drag a compressor out to a job.?

Many marine engine manufacturers base their warrantee labor time with the engine on a stand in a shop where 360 degree access is a breeze.

When it comes to servicing the same thing in the field, the dealers find the time alloted and the time it takes are two different animals.

As my homies in the ghetto would say, just tryin to keep it real.....

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