Why I feel like I do about blow boaters

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 8th, '07, 06:54

I don't ever want to be preached at again about the misunderstanding of sailboaters after this latest.

The latest correspondence from a guy looking to repower:

First email was explaining he had a Catalina that had a universal engine and that sometime next year he would be bringing the boat over from europe and wanted a Yanmar installed, wanted a ballpark cost and asked if the old engine could offset the costs.

My response:

We do not give quotes without looking at the boat and what exactly needs to be done.
Next year could mean anytime and the current rate of inflation on marine items and fuel prices sky rocketing adding additional increased costs makes it foolish to estimate costs somewhere in the future.

Once you get the boat over here and are ready to proceed, we can come look at it and give you an estimate then.

We have no interest in the Universal engine as a trade.

Southeast Marine

His response:

You know what ? I asked for a BALLPARK estimate...not a quote. You could have given a general estimate of the cost right now so I had some idea of the potential costs.

You couldn't even be bothered to give the name of the sender at the bottom of your email....I certainly won't be using any of your company services now or at any time in the future...I will also be telling my very many boat owner friends about your less than friendly approach to potential customers.

Your email title says 'service' at southeast marine. Judging from your response email, you have no concept of what service is.

I will also be forwarding your response to Yanmar head office.

Paul Shelley

My response:
The problem with "ballpark" figures is that they don't represent real world pricing and everyday responsible business practice, and thus we don't participate in "ballparking" anything.

Your very welcome to forward anything you feel is necessary to Yanmar.

Southeast Marine

His response:

Whoever you are...lets be clear here, I gave you the make, model and year of the vessel concerned, which also happens to be an extremely well known, common and popular vessel with the original engine in place as per Catalina specs. I gave you the exact engine and transmission that I require and the work that I require...given that information...a standard removal of the old engine and gear, followed by installation of the new engine and gear is a very straightfoward job in terms of knowing what needed to be done, not rocket science.

It would have been very simple and helpful to at least inform me of the current price of the items I would need. I'm sure you should have a pretty good idea of the anticipated labor as well and please don't tell me that you don't know how long the job would take until you saw the boat, as a supposed professional in the industry, you should have a very good idea of exactly what the job involved...instead...you've chosen to remain unhelpful.

I wonder what you mean by 'real world pricing' ? The last time I heard that phrase used, someone tried to overcharge me way over the normal market price for what they were doing.

I am the CEO of my own company which is not a small company and I deal with many other companies internationally on a daily basis including the US and I am fully aware of what responsible business practice means, I am also fully aware of when I am being treated with rudeness.

I note that again, you don't give a name of the sender of the email.

My response:

Please be aware that today's pricing means nothing except for today. We have experienced 30 to 40 % increases in many materials used during a repower process over a short period of time due to global demand of raw materials and fuel prices.

My experience has been if we were to quote a price for a repower for some where in the future, and you went to the expense of bringing the boat over and all of a sudden due to circumstances out of our hands the price were to increase say 20 to 30%, you would not be happy.

It's obvious that you do not feel comfortable with our business requirements and that your free to see if another Yanmar dealer will give you the information that you require.

It might be better to at least give them a "ballpark" estimate on when you would be bringing your boat over so that they could better serve your needs.

Southeast Marine.

randall · Post by **randall** » Nov 8th, '07, 08:09

and this is limited to sail boats?.....c.mon bruce...you know you're supposed to say " i am very truely completely and respectfully sorry i cant comply with your silly request"

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 8th, '07, 08:28

And they steal the lightbulbs out of the marina bathrooms! (In gangs of three, of course!)

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 8th, '07, 08:41

and the toilet paper!! One of the local marinas had to epoxy their washdown hoses to the bib because the sailboaters kept stealing them!!

scot · Post by **scot** » Nov 8th, '07, 09:10

To me the worst is the ones that think they can enter and exit the marine without the engine....thus displaying their extreme skill with the sails, and basically creating a nightmare for the rest of us.

Bruce...tell them all to pack sand.

Face · Post by **Face** » Nov 8th, '07, 09:44

Let me get this straight, one d#%*head with a sail boat and you've made up your mind that all sailboaters are equally as ignorant and rude? This is about as logical as generalizing one's race. If you are in the marine business, I'm sure you have had equally rude and ignorant requests from power boaters.
-Joe
and no, i don't own a sailboat.

Brewster Minton · Post by **Brewster Minton** » Nov 8th, '07, 10:15

He was one of the last straws. Plus it is not PC to say anything about anyone except Blow boaters are still fair game.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Nov 8th, '07, 10:27

Bruce,
As a part-time blow boater I have one thing to say, "Catalina."
Not the best quality boat on the market. Is he sailing this thing from Europe? Not me! Is he shipping it? I'm reminded of "good money after bad."
Hey, Paul, Blow it out your barracks bag.
Keep'em coming Bruce, they're great.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Nov 8th, '07, 10:52

The first first sentence of your first response said it all:

We do not give quotes without looking at the boat and what exactly needs to be done.

If the guy can't understand that... what else would you have trouble making him understand, once you find yourself stuck dealing with him?

I have a sign in my office to remind me of how to deal with guys like that:

Rule #1: The customer is always right.
Rule #2: They must be punished for their arrogance!

I say tell him it should cost about $800, and then give him the address of one of your competitors

Capt Dick Dean · Post by **Capt Dick Dean** » Nov 8th, '07, 11:11

Bruce, I have told guys like this that I don't want to do business with them. It blows their minds. But then again your a franchised dealer which makes a difference.

I too have sail boat erperience and the Catalina is a poor choice of boat. I had a Universal engine ... they are from years gone by. I bet it's an Atomic 4 and in direct drive puts out 30 hp.

Could you send me his e.mail address? I'd like to let Mr. Big Shot CEO what the real business world is like. And I might honestly say that sail boat people are the cheapest boaters afoat.

CMP · Post by **CMP** » Nov 8th, '07, 12:00

Dear Mr. Shelley,

Are you always an a$$hole or is today a special day?

Love, Southeast Marine

PS, if your "company" is so "big", why do you own such a POS boat?

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 8th, '07, 12:25

We had one of those pieces of crap at the railway I worked at in highschool. When you hauled it you had to take the hatchboards out while it was in the water or they would jam immovably when hauled. It was just junk!! I dealt with a lot of blowboaters while running a dock at a local resort during the summers while in college. A couple were really great people, but most were tightwad pains in the @#$ who thought they were the greatest salty mariners that ever sailed the seas. They used to anchor out and come in after hours to use all of the facilities and steal the toilet paper!!

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 8th, '07, 13:35

When Ernest and I were coming back from Port Eads that year we stopped at a fuel dock in Intracoastal City for the night. They had a few transient slips, and bathroom facilties you could use. The only other boat was a ragged little sailbote from Port Aransas, Tx, - middle aged couple. The guy wanted to stay there forever, because it was free. Pretty sure he locked us out of the men's shower, and the ligthbulb was missing in the womens. Hmmmm.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 8th, '07, 13:47

Blow boaters that I know get the wind for free and for some unknown reason they think that everything else should come to them for free also.

I would count my blessings..........not having to deal with a sail boat......no matter who it belongs to......

Harry

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 8th, '07, 16:15

Joe,
My opinion does not come from 1 sailer but 30 years of the sailboat crowd.

Now not every sailer is challenged. I've had 3 or 4 out of the couple hundred I've dealt with that were very nice people.

As a dealer for numerous companies, I am required to service all vessels to a point. That point with sailers keeps getting ground down.

While yes some power boaters have been trouble, its the opposite of the sailboat crowd in percentage. And I've never ever had one call me to the carpet over my estimate requirements as I don't do ballpark.

I'm in the marine business, not the baseball business.

With this type of individual you can't win. My experience has been that if I had given him a ballpark price for sometime next year and included inflation costs into it, which nobody that I know of does, he would have criticized me for being higher than everyone else and complained about trying to rip him off.

Been there, done that and got the T shirt.

nic · Post by **nic** » Nov 8th, '07, 16:15

Mr Shelley....meet the Mean Team!

The last sailboat I had was one built in 1947 in California from a William Atkin "Ingrid" design published in Rudder magazine. I spent over $200k restoring it. It had been one and a half times around the world. I sailed it 600 miles down the coast non-stop, 8 days, including a full 24 hours becalmed because the yard installed the new 40hp Lister diesel without a syphon break and it "hydraulicked" going out through the bar as we started the trip. I had a crew of one who slept in his bunk all the way except for when he asked the Coastguard to rescue him one night.

I don't like some of them either.

Nic

Jareb · Post by **Jareb** » Nov 8th, '07, 17:29

Bruce,
After his 2nd email-I would have responded" OK Mr Shelley, The price will be somewhere in the ballpark of between $1 and $100,000 but I WILL have to see the boat in person to narrow it down a bit.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 8th, '07, 17:42

I'd have put him on my spam list and played possum. There are too many nice people in this world to waste 5 seconds on the assholes.

UV

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 8th, '07, 17:53

As much as I love to argue with idiots, I have to agree with Vic. Like Bruce said, you can't win with this type of person, no matter what you try to do.

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Nov 8th, '07, 20:33

Joe, yup, thats all it takes. I had a bad experance with a insurance bookie from Baton Rouge once, and I figured they are all dicks, after that. Not so with lawyers from that area though. (of course i'm suckin up for a invite to the blue collar UV's , not the uber rich one's now takin place.......

Capt. Mike Holmes · Post by **Capt. Mike Holmes** » Nov 8th, '07, 20:43

Tim-m-m-m-m-y! Welcome back! You been silent lately. I need to send you some pictures of my big, new dock. That's D-O-C-K, OK?

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:09

Timmy, it's sort of natural selection with the UVI. I have a plan to have it back down at Port Eads one day, but it will involve renting a big quarter barge that would sleep about 35 guys, a commercail kitchen, a coonass chef. It can be done, but the chip-in will be pretty stout, probably TSL range. PE is dead, we would have to set up in the river, get a fuel barge, bring in ice, you name it. Now on the other hand it can be done out of Venice for less, land based, but it ain't me. I guess the fact we did it out of PE for 5 years in a row is a testament to the Faithful pulling strings where they could, all helping out with boats, etc. Blue collar it was, now it ain't, big bucks to make anything happen down there today, and frankly, I'd rather go to TSL and be treated like a king vs. going to Venice and being treated like s**t. The people that run Venice ain't the same folks we had at PE for UVI one thru 5....

UV

Harv · Post by **Harv** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:24

Bruce,

If he wanted a ballpark figure,
you should have given him a ballpark figure,
Something like 410 to the gap in right center
or 328 down the rightfield line.

AndreF · Post by **AndreF** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:38

Now Timmy, some one might think you're serious. We've had nothing but fun together. Even grinding fiberglass is fun, I guess.................

Hookshurt · Post by **Hookshurt** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:39

Bruce...If no one else would, I'd appreciate the brutal honesty of not providing a "ballpark" estimate. My most recent experience with ballpark estimates is that it was a foul ball. But of course, I can't afford (in time and safety) to take my boat from the house to the haul out, much less from the EU to the USA. As far as blow boats go, the only thing I know is that my boat blows when a motor fails with high speed winds and it's impossible to navigate. To each his own, but keep on keepin on with your intention to maintain or enhance the integrity of your business. Thanks to you and the rest out there who offer information and advise for the novice like me.

scot · Post by **scot** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:57

UV,

going to Venice and being treated like s**t.

.....I feel a lot better, I always took it personal and just figured it was because I live West of the Sabine River and talked funny to them.

Timmmmmy!!!!!!......Where have you been hiding?

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Nov 8th, '07, 22:03

Well my name is not Bruce but I have an opinion on this matter......in fact I likewise run my own business and have had to face this matter several times...............its never pleasant

My experience is that when someone ask for a "Ball Park" price they actually take the "Ball Park" guesstimate as a quote.

When I get calls, if its something I am interested in, I insist that the customer wait until I can actually get current pricing on materials then I give the guesstimate...............

With the material market (steel and stainless steel) being what it is I learned the hard way.........and I do mean the hard way.........to put a time limit on honoring a quote. I have actually quoted parts and elected to honor the quote for 2 days recently.

The long and short of it is that most customers (consumers) don't really know the difference between a "Ball Park guesstimate".......an "Estimate" or a real time "Quote"

Its all in communication......on both sides of the deal

Harry

thuddddddd · Post by **thuddddddd** » Nov 10th, '07, 08:12

Scot, Mike, Working. And hunting Ruffed grouse and woodcock, ALOT.
UV I'm trying to get Terry F to adopt me, so I can make TSL again. Your right they do treat you well there.

Andre, I suppose your right. Think I found 2 potential sites for the pres day weekend gala event. I'll keep the list guys current when I have more info

bertram31.com

Why I feel like I do about blow boaters

Why I feel like I do about blow boaters

Blowboaters

generalizations

Blowing

Vic's right

Timmy

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