Bilge Paint Question

mikepelham · Post by **mikepelham** » Nov 1st, '07, 11:13

So I have the decks up and new tank in. Engines are out and I have started teraing wiring out. After I remove about two inches of goo and grease, I will eventually need to paint the bilge. I was looking at two-part systems, resins, etc. Anyone have advice as to what the best combination brand to use? I realize prep work is 90% and I will have degreased then solvent degreased so that you can practically lick off the bilge.

Thanks for your comments!

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Nov 1st, '07, 11:55

Mike,

Others have used other products, but here's what I used and would use again. Based on Walter's advise I went with the POR15 hardnosed white 2-part paint and Marine Clean cleaner. It's easy to work with and they say on fg you don't need to prime. I'm a little more than 1/2 way thorugh doing my engine room and cockpit bilges. I've gound that on wood you must prime and on fg coverage is better if you prime. If you don't prime on fg it takes several coats to cover. Probably due to the green die used in Bertram fg.

For a cleaner I used the POR15 Marine clean and and some nylon/brass scrub brushes from the local dollar store. A couple of years ago when I replaced my rudder shelves I used off the shelf spray cleaner from the auto parts store what a PITA.... With the Marine clean I simply mix spray an area and work it with the brushes and then freshwater wash. No other steps needed before painting, just plenty of fresh water to rense the cleaner away. It took my engine beds from black gunk to brigh green.

My only other tip is to find the smallest skinniest guy you can to do the work. I'm the opposite and my back and legs still hurt.....

br,
JohnD

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 1st, '07, 12:29

John: Glad the POR15 is working for you!! The white hardnose needs two coats to fully cover the green FG. Be sure to put on the second coat within the time window called for so it will chemically bond with the first coat. Have you tried the Marine Clean on chrome yet? You will be amazed. i love that stuff!!

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Nov 1st, '07, 13:46

Rawleigh: so much for my memory, for some reason I thought Walter had given me that tip. I haven't had na opportunity to try marine clean on chrome yet, I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

mikepelham · Post by **mikepelham** » Nov 1st, '07, 14:40

Did you guys just use the hardnose whitecoat or the grye color

Dug · Post by **Dug** » Nov 1st, '07, 15:02

I used white bilgekote by Interlux. It worked great. Easy to apply, and nice and shiny.

Dug

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Nov 1st, '07, 15:12

I used the hardnosed white.

Previously I used the Interlux brightsides on the rudder shelves, blue-tone white. I did this because it didn't require mixing and was brush friendly. It turned out well hand is only now showing ware marks from the re-power activity.

I went with the POR15 stuff because under the motors I wanted something just a little more durable as the likelihood of re-painting later was nil.

I had used bilgekote on a non-skid board over my water tank and was very dissapointed when it wore off in just a few months. Probably due to the non-skid, I haven't re-painted that area yet so I don't know if it was the paint or not.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 1st, '07, 16:05

White.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Nov 1st, '07, 17:56

Why not gel coat? Too much work?or just not a good choice?

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 1st, '07, 18:30

John,

Way too much work, far more expensive, & even worse, lack of adhesion.......

Br,

Patrick

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Nov 1st, '07, 19:26

We used both bilgekote and awlgrip.
Forward of the aft cabin bulkhead was bilgekote and from the engine boxes back was Awl-Grip.
Prep time for both was close to the same sanding and cleaning.
The bilgekote took 3 coats to get a solid color the dry time to a useable surface was several days.
The Awl Grip was sprayed first the 545 then the finish coat.
The Awl Grip dried to a useable finish in 24 hours.

Bottom line was both products applied and dried in about the same amount of time. What the Awl Grip lost in application time it made up for in dry time.
The real benefit to AwlGrip is that you can clean with lacquer thinner or denatured alcohol to remove grease and whatnot that accumulates in the bilge.
The Bilgekote does not tolerate any solvents well. The bilgekote requires much more touchup and fiddling with to keep a fresh clean appearance. Take the extra steps and use Awl Grip. I was a fan of the Bilgekote but I was wrong.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Nov 1st, '07, 20:13

Gel coating was included in the price. He's waiting for the engine dude to make any adjustments to the beds before he does his thing. Should I reconsider? or just let him do the extra work with the gel coat? Lot of dumb questions coming from me lately...sorry, guys.
Thanks again.

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Nov 1st, '07, 21:07

John,

Gelcoat is porous and is going to gobble up stains, expecially oil. DON'T gelcoat the engine spaces! Paint is the only way to go. 2 Part is better than 1 part.

Br,

Patrick

J Clark · Post by **J Clark** » Nov 1st, '07, 21:27

I used a paint that is sold by Scherwin Williams called: Iron Clad. It is a two (2) epoxy paint that comes in twenty (20) different colors and shades. It was designed for industrial applications. I have used it with great success, capping pilings and tops of 2.5 CCA treated bulkhead material. It will agressively adhere to less than clean surfaces, and dries in
less than eight (8) hours, at tempertures not less than 55 degrees. The cost? approximately $60.00 for a gallon of product and the catalyst.

nic · Post by **nic** » Nov 1st, '07, 22:45

John,

Captain Patrick is telling you the truth.....no gelcoat...what was in those syringes man? I had to fight to stop "flocote" going in and I am thankful everyday I open the hatches!

Nic

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Nov 2nd, '07, 08:11

Bilgecoat sucks. I tried it 6 years ago and it eventually peeled up in sheets. Bilges are tough on paint. How does Awlgrip do in a bilge that always has some water in it? I would think it would bubble.

Bob S · Post by **Bob S** » Nov 2nd, '07, 08:27

I painted my engine room with Awlgrip (Oyster White)3 years ago when I repowered and it looks as good today as when i did it. Even where the bilge stays wet and get dirty cleans up with just a wipe with a sponge. Preparation and application are critical. I cleaned with acetone. Use a powered ventilation mask or you wont be able to work long, and make sure that no water drips on the wet paint as it has bad effects.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Nov 2nd, '07, 17:17

Nick,
Bacardi 151.
J. Clark,
I called Sherwin Williams and they said that Iron Clad is a Benjamin Moore product. Called B.M. and was told that they carry a similar product called "646". 2 parts equals $104 for a total of 2 gallons.

JohnCranston · Post by **JohnCranston** » Nov 2nd, '07, 17:23

Sorry Nic for screwing up your name. I screwed up on calling B.M., it was Sherwin that carries the 646.
Time for another drink.

nic · Post by **nic** » Nov 2nd, '07, 18:51

John,

Bacardi 151 huh? Well, don't have any more until you are sure you are getting the right paint job under the decks. That was a close call.

Nic

DRIFTER31 · Post by **DRIFTER31** » Nov 3rd, '07, 13:42

I have used interlux "Perfection" 2part in oyster and it gets hard as a rock. Needs two coats and cost 60.00 Qt. Love it Also available is a flattening agent and i mixed 50% less flatening liqiud than required and the paint job looks like fresh gelcoat. Not too glossy{just right}

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Nov 3rd, '07, 22:59

I used Interlux Perfection as well as Richard's (two part) and I even used some Bilge Coat on the back of the panel that goes on the starboad side of the boat in the cabin with the peg board backing. The Interlux over the Epoxy Prime Coat works well and has held up fine. The Bilge Coat is a little watery and needs a few coats. The Richards worked great. I got turned on to the stuff from a guy who worked for L&h boats in Florida and he said that they use the stuff on all of thier bilges. I used Richards everywhere but the engine compartment area which is where I used the Interlux. No particular reason that I used different paints in different areas except that I did them at different times and I have ADD, and I am not a good mind maker upper. I dont think that you can go wrong with the Interlux Perfection with the two part Epoxy Prime Coat Primer or the Awlgrip system, or the Richards. I can't see the Bilge Coat, being one part, being as good as the two part systems. They all need a couple of coats. The Awlgrip gives the hardest highest gloss finish, in my humble opinion. Awlgrip seems to be the one that the yard likes best and the majority of guys in our yard seem to use. I think that the key is the prep and the prime.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 4th, '07, 22:11

Has anyone tried using Interprotect for the bilge? Tony Meola

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Nov 4th, '07, 23:19

Tony: I don't see why not except that it does not have a real glossy finish, more like an eggshell type of finish.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Nov 5th, '07, 07:46

I have used an MAB paint called PLY Tile. Its a two part and can be tinted in just about any color.

Comes in two 1 gallon(hardener and color) cans and works great. It is mixed 1:1 and any amount can be used.

100 bucks for the two gallons.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 6th, '07, 22:14

John

I am going to give it consideration over the winter. I was thinking maybe two coats of interprotect in white then a finish coat of a two part paint to make it glossy. I figure a good epoxy paint should stick to the Interprotect. Well I will have until April to figure this out. Will be ordering the engines in a couple of weeks. I am still impressed with the performance of your boat with those 270 Cummins. More than anyone could want out of these boats. Tony Meola

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Nov 6th, '07, 23:06

Tony:
Interlux puts out a pamphlet that has charts indicating which of their paints works well with which and also what paint to use in each application. I donâ€™t see how anything anyone can tell you will beat the manufacturerâ€™s own recommendations. You can get it at West and or anyplace that sells their product. They also have it on the internet. I found it very helpful and easy to understand. Thanks for the compliment on the boat. I couldnâ€™t be happier with the 270â€™s and I have to admit that I get a thrill every time I get to hit those start buttons. Youâ€™re gonnaâ€™ love it.

J Graham · Post by **J Graham** » Nov 7th, '07, 08:42

Hate to change the topic, John metioned 270 Cummins, I am trying to make a power decision on a rehab of a B-31. Could you give me the performance #'s on the 270's. Originally a Bahis Mar w/gas. Planning on a significant change from original with much weight loss. Thanks,
JG

John Jackson · Post by **John Jackson** » Nov 7th, '07, 22:45

JG:
The 270's seem perfect for this boat. Fully loaded, I cruise 25-26. Top end around 29. I have hit 32 with the tide in shallow water with a low fuel tank. Load does not seem to matter. Five guys, ice, 245 gallons of fuel and I'll still bop between 25-26 at 2400, the rated cruise RPM. If you slam down the throttles it will go from idle to 2600 RPMs in about 6.5 seconds, which I still can't get over. Pinwheels in its own 31 feet and is a dream to handle with the big wheels and rudders. Without trolling valves, she's a little brisk on one wheel at idle which is about 4.5 knots. I drag two five gallon buckets for stripers which gets me down to about 3.5 kts on one engine. It handles on one wheel almost as well as it does on two with the big rudders.

Hard for me to get an exact read on the economy because whenever I fill up I am not sure of the distance plus it is usually a mix of cruise, troll, fast, slow, etc. I never fill the boat up back as soon as I get back from the canyon and I usually do a couple more inshore trips before filling up. I would estimate that on canyon trips, running the boat from midnight to seven the next night I am in the range of 140 gallons with about 80 miles out to the fishing grounds. This is right about what the other guys with 270s seem to report.
The most I have ever had to put in was 176 gallons and that was after a canyon trip where we went out about 86 miles and then moved to a different spot 25 miles North and then 90 miles home from there, and then used the boat for two weeks afterwards for family fluke trips and cocktail cruises.

If you put in motors you will probably have to do shafts, struts, props, rudders, steering, exhausts, wires, plus stringers, bulkheads, fuel tank, etc. It is a big job to do it right, and it is the king of one thing leads to another type of endeavor.

My boat seems to be a hair slower than all of the other boats with 270Bs, and there are a lot of them around here. I think it is from the lift strakes that are a lot different on my 1961 model than on later editions.

Very little to no smoke at start up in the summer but the do smoke a lot at start up when it gets cold out.

They are very loud, but I have not yet really tried to attack that problem, but I hope to this winter. Hope this info helps. JJJ

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Nov 8th, '07, 08:39

Another option : Cabrera's bed liners

http://cabrerayachts.com/Bertram31_Engi ... tment1.htm

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 8th, '07, 21:49

John

I will also talk with the Interlux reps at the boat shows. I will need to make a visit to either NY or AC to see if I can get any deals on equipment.

Jerry

How do those bed liners work? Do they lay over the existing stringers or do you have to glass them in?

JG

I was on John's boat. He is not kidding about how it performs with the bigger rudders and the 270's. Depending where you are you may want to order a set. I spoke with the Cummins dealer I am going through and he is expecting an increase in price in January. Given what I saw with John's boat I don't think spending another 6 grand a side for the 330's is worth it. It will only give another 3 knots at cruise.

Tony Meola

bertram31.com

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