Engine Beds

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 26th, '07, 19:34

Ok, looking for some advice.

I am at a point that I am ready to make a decision if I keep my exhisting engine beds or rip them out. I am going to replace 454 big blocks with the 270 recon Cummins. My beds have no rot and are in great shape. I have to replace the bulkhead to the stern of the engines. So my question is, since the beds are in great shape, do I cut them down and glass over them and cap them with aluminum or should I take them out and totally replace them.

Also if I do take them out, is a sawzall the best way to remove them or do I need to use something else. All advice is appreciated. Tony Meola

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 26th, '07, 19:41

Tony - keep em, cap em, and build alum. tower mounts for the Cummins off the caps. Mine were done like that in 1991 and never a hitch. I have some pic somewhere, and I think Mikey did his like mine and probably has pic too.

UV

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 26th, '07, 21:16

Uncle Vic

Thanks. I am trying to get out the bolts that are in there right now. Once I have them out I will replace them with stainless and go from there. This will actually save me time and effort since they are in good shape. I will just glass over the exiting wood once its cut down and then cap it. Tony Meola

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 26th, '07, 21:32

Tony, before you glass over them and cap, figure out where the new engines will sit so you don't have to maybe cut out new glass...I think Mikey has a template for 6BTA Cummins that has been passed around to several here for bedding Cummins. Guess the point is to build the bed caps and towers to the motor mounts with the engine in place in near alignment with the running gear vs doing the vice versa.

UV

Ironman · Post by **Ironman** » Sep 27th, '07, 10:15

I used a skill saw.. then with a sawsall Fine tuned with a belt sander.better tro be a little low.. You can always adjust up... .
& what Vic said.. Get the template.. Build your mounts with balsa wood first for a pattern then go to a welder to make them from 1/2" stock. Then powdercoat & your stylin.. Build the beds up nice & flat with west sys. .Then belt sand again.. Add some 4200 & set the caps.
Wayne
p.s, BEAT THOSE OLD SS BOLTS OUT TOO then use new 5/8" SS, to bolt cap to beds..

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sep 27th, '07, 10:22

Tony,
Here is what I did with the conversion from 454's to Cummins. My stringers were in good shape so I added to them from the cabin bulkhead to the aft engine bulkhead. Using the Cummins diagram for installation we made a template of the engine and hung it from the shaft. From here we measured for the engine beds, made them in plywood, made sure they fit and then fabricated aluminum. Subsequently I have had to cut slices out of several for exhaust etc. but that is to be expected. Just that easy.

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 27th, '07, 12:36

Nice work Mikey.....same as mine with a couple of differences. My caps extend all the way from the front tower to the rear one, and mine have a huge aluminum angle bolted between the inboard stringers and passing under the companionway deck, in effect tying both engine beds together. Was done in a coonass shipyard in about 1991, and the owner of the shipyard had AJ at the time. Serious overkill.

UV

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Sep 27th, '07, 14:54

Serious overkill

There's no such thing on a boat is there?

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sep 27th, '07, 17:04

Vic, Mine look like yours because I copied while the teacher wasn't looking. Took copius pix when we were at Port Eades and handed them to the guys making the stuff. No need to invent the wheel, just cheat.

Skipper Dick · Post by **Skipper Dick** » Sep 27th, '07, 17:13

Mikey,

That's not cheating. It is ingenuity,

Dick

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Sep 27th, '07, 17:45

Mikey yours really look first class. I sure did not invent them, a Coonass named Mr. Pitrie down Bayou Lafourche in Galiano, LA did when he repowered AJ in 1991 with the 6BTA Cummins. I ran into his former captain on the dock in Venice one time and he told me the history of the power in AJ....she came with 440 Chryslers (she's a 72) and Pitrie hated them since he owned a fleet of diesel tugs and crewboats...so he told the captain to see if he could burn them up by running them wide open all the time.....he did but never could in 5 or 6 years, said the Chryslers just never would quit.....so that frustrated Pitrie to the point he pulled the Chryslers and put a pair of DD 4-53 naturals in her......loud, slow, oil slingin' dump truck motors they fished for a few years, then Pitrie got wind of the new Cummins 6BTAs in the late 80s, bought a pair and put them in a warehouse until 1991 when he totally refit the boat. My 6BTA 250s, CPL 1247 were made in Nov. of 89 and installed in 91, in the meantime they took a siesta down the bayou. I asked the captain about the engine mounts and he instantly remembered how it was done in Pitrie's shipyard....."he tole dem coonass welders to go in dere and figure out how to make dem 'towers' and weld the s**t outta dem" And they did.

UV

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 27th, '07, 19:57

Thanks guys that is really helpfull. Nice pictures Mikey. I am ok with the template. The Cummins dealer I am using has a Jig for the 270. He only needs to get it back from the yard that did the work on JP and John Jackson's boat. He loaned it to them so they could do the 31's they were repowering.

Mikey, one question, it looks like you replaced the bulkhead after the engine beds were reglassed in verses glassing the engine beds to the stringer. Am I looking at that right? Tony

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sep 28th, '07, 09:17

Right Tony. When I finished stripping Dreamsicle there was nothing inside but dreams. I replaced all the bulkheads as they were in bad shape. Then when I purchased Cabreras replacement parts he had an aft engine bulkhead that was desinged for the new fuel tank and the deck-support stringers. So I ripped it out the new one I had done and fit the Cabrera. Once in place I marked it and removed it and did the stringers to butt against the new bulkhead. We installed the engines and then installed the rest of the cabrera stuff. A bit hard working around the engines at time but I wanted to be sure that all of my installations left access to the engines and the equipment. Can't tell you how many boats I have been on where the Racors were installed last and ended up in some obscure location because of either laziness or lack of remaining available space. When I read Bruce's current post about the clogged Racors that were the last thing chacked I wonder whether they were by-passed because of the pain of accessability. Bad thing there is that all of Bruce's predecessors were checking at the dock at their leisure not in the canyon in twenty-foot seas, know what I mean Vern?

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 28th, '07, 17:49

Mikey

Thanks

Haven't gotten that far yet. I figure once I figure out my battery placement, and the bulkhead and engine beds are done, then I can figure out just were to put the filters. Tony Meola

scot · Post by **scot** » Sep 28th, '07, 19:18

Lookin good Mikey!

Those engines must be the white cream inside the Dreamsicle. Nice clean installation.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Sep 29th, '07, 09:44

Tony,
Refresh my tiny little mind. What model do you have. I'll try to get pix of the racors and Algae-X and post today. May be of some help.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Sep 30th, '07, 21:48

Mikey

I have a fly bridge cruiser. I am now trying to figure out the best way of removing the supports for the floor in the companionway without totally destroying everything. I figured they would come right out but they are being stubborn. I was trying to avoid cutting them so I could use them as a pattern latter on.

Thanks for the infor. Tony Meola

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Sep 30th, '07, 23:01

Tony,

Here's what I did for the companionway rails on Patrick Hancock's boat...

The structural square fiberglass tubing is 1/8" wall, & 1" & 2" sections. The verticals are glassed over Coosa Board, backed with 1/8" fiberglass plate. These images were taken before glueing the pieces together.

Once epoxied together & the deck plates are in, there is less than 3/16" of deflection with a 250 lb load in the middle...

Larger images are available by clicking on these images.

The structural tubing was obtained from McMaster-Carr

Br,

Patrick

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 1st, '07, 20:02

Capt. Pat,

Thank You.

Nice work. Did you glass them to the bulhead or did they go to the Hull?Tony Meola

CaptPatrick · Post by **CaptPatrick** » Oct 1st, '07, 20:13

Tony,

Both bulkheads are glassed over. The rails are supported, after leveling & adjusting for twist, by 1" square fiberglass structural tubing. You want to be able to take the rails out when & if necessary. I'll take a couple of shots tomorrow & post...

Br,

Patrick

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Oct 2nd, '07, 09:04

Pat: Nice work! I've been thinking of doing something similar to mine, and now I have a proven concept to follow!! I assume you would use plywood "U" or "L" shaped brackets epoxied and glassed to the bulkhead for them to rest in so that they can be easily removed? Or is some other type of fastening system used? Got to love those structural epoxy pieces from McMaster!!

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Oct 2nd, '07, 10:02

Follow the link to Cabrera's mounts on my B31.

http://www.cabrerayachts.com/Bertram31_ ... tment1.htm

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 2nd, '07, 20:32

Gerry

Looks nice nice and clean. Looks like they started out with inserts and worked up from there. Tony Meola

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 7th, '07, 07:49

Mikey

How much distance do you have between the bottom of the gear and the hull?????

Harry Babb

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Oct 7th, '07, 10:35

Harry,
Will do. ,It will take a day or two. I am leaving for Richmond in a few hours to officiate at the golf tourney for my favorite charity. "it's for the kids."

Like your quotes always. My Daddy said the current one slightly differently.
"If you keep on doing what you always done, you'll keep getting what you always got."

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 7th, '07, 10:42

Thanks Mikey
Enjoy the tournment.........

Harry Babb

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Oct 10th, '07, 10:07

HArry
Finally got to measure.
From the lowest point on the aft, outboard , bottom edge of the tranny to the hull is approximately (couldn't get my crippled ass any closer) 2 1/2" on the port side. Assume the starboard should be the same. Can't raise the starboard cover now as tools are piled high working on the port engine. Nothing serious.

Harry Babb · Post by **Harry Babb** » Oct 10th, '07, 21:10

Thanks Mikey

I am surprised that there is that much room between the gear and hull. I thought it may be a little tighter than that.

Thats good info.............

Thanks

Harry

bertram31.com

Engine Beds

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