Lessons from the short bus riders........

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Aug 27th, '07, 19:56

Don't run your turbo with no air inlet screen or filter and don't flush the freshwater side of the cooling system with muriatic acid.

Two 30 something brothers are customers of mine.

One has a 37 Sea Vee with a 420 Yanmar.
The other has a commercial fishing boat with a 550hp Yanmar.

In the last 5 months the owner of the Sea Vee has spent about 13k fixing the engine from neglect and abuse.

While I was away in NY, they somehow broke the air inlet filter housing.
Hey we don't need one despite the many plastic ice bags dumped in the bilge. Load up boat and head to Bahamas.

17 miles out one bag found its way into the turbo inlet and melted and locked the turbo up. Not a big deal although the turbo had less than 50 hours on it since being replaced due to a cracked housing.

Quick we need to get back to the marina, jump in the brothers fishing trawler and go back to the Bahamas to chase fish.

Puffing I'm sure big black belows of smoke due to the lack of air, carbon built up in the cylinders and hung up some exhaust valves. This lead to, drum roll please....

Valve indegestion of said engine.

The engine is knocking more than a Pit Bulls knees at the sound of, " Hey we just found you a good home with Michael Vick".

Scratch one 35k engine.

Second brother with the fishing boat just purchased a few months back with 16,000 hours on it had an over heating problem.
Rather than consult a real mechanic, he decided to let his fishing buddy help him out.

They removed every cooler, turbo, injecters, coolant tank and the such to have cleaned and rebuilt cause that's where the problem was according to the friend.
Well after about 6 grand I'm guessing, the problem was still there.
Owner now decides to walk the 30 yards up to my shop and discuss the problem as he is now out of money and the over heat is still there.

After asking a few simple questions I ask has he been running water or antifreeze mix.

Previous owner and he have been running pure tap water for who knows how long.
I suggest a good descaling as I think that's where the problem is.

At this time he says they already flushed the freshwater side with muriatic acid. I ask if by some chance they are loosing coolant. He says how do you know that?

I said let me still descale and replace pressure cap. If its doesn't fix it, he doesn't have to pay.

I descaled, replaced cap and the over heating is all but fixed except running a little warm at full throttle.

He was annoyed at the ease of which I fixed it after all the money he spent to which I replied, you havn't even begun to spend money yet.

Looking perplexed I informed him that in all likley hood, the muriatic acid ate thru one or both head gaskets and you are burning it.
With the new cap and the system building pressure now, he's leaking more coolant out and looking at major work.

He will just keep adding antifreeze until he has the money to fix it.

I see a new 50k engine in his future.

Good thing dad own's some resturants and strip clubs.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Aug 27th, '07, 21:52

Damn. I only had one sign and I just gave it to Michael Vick.....

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Aug 28th, '07, 06:39

So...did they make it to the Bahamas?

It is truly amazing what a "real mechanic" can figure out with just a few seemingly simple questions.

I only know of one person like that in my area and he just can't be bothered anymore, its such a shame. People would not want to pay him for what seemed like a quick fix. One guy shelled out dough like no tomorrow replacing risers and water pumps to correct an overheating problem and "Nick" came down listened to wait the guy said he had done and apparently "not done" and asked him if he ever checked the transmission cooler for broken veins, the guy said he backflushed, Nick said to check for the veins anyway. The guy said it would be a waste of his time.... but if Nick thought it was the cooler Nick could give it a try. So Nick removes the crap in the way of the cooler, loosens the bracket and pulls the cooler and line up a bit, opens the clamp sticks his finger in the transmission cooler removes some old pump veins, replaces clamp and says "give it a shot". Boat ran fine no more overheating, Nick sends guy a bill for 150. and the guy goes thru ballistic...he only removed a F&&^%% clamp, if he thinks I'm paying 150 for that...on and on he goes.
I'm thinking what about the trip down here the 1/2 hour+ of you telling him what you had replaced, fixed etc and then the arguing of it can't be crap in the cooler cause I....No wonder Nick can't be bothered anymore, he only deals with select clientele and engine swaps.

Eddy G · Post by **Eddy G** » Aug 28th, '07, 07:40

Bruce: What is the best product to use to keep the seawater side of the cooling system clean? It would seem that if a good air filter was used to keep the turbo and air cooler clean, new coolant every year to keep the outside of the heat exchanger tubes clean, replace zincs before they fall off, all that would be needed is a good descaler regularly on the seawater side to keep from having to disassemble everything for cleaning. I suppose it would be good to disassemble once in a while to replace O rings and check for corrosion, but not as often. What do you recommend?

Eddy G.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 28th, '07, 10:13

Here is some interesting stuff. Check out the marine product. I have not tried it myself, but it was recommended by members of a construction equipment site who seem to know what they are talking about:

http://www.rydlyme.com/

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Aug 28th, '07, 14:35

Flushing the engines with Salt-Away is my plan.

http://www.saltawayproducts.com/

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Aug 28th, '07, 14:44

Why would you flush the freshwater side? Does it get scaling too? Guess I just missed the bus on this one.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 28th, '07, 15:01

It is the same as flushing your car radiator. Cleans out any corrosion and slime. Probably not necessary on a properly maintained system, but they were running tap water. I think the saltwater side is where the scaling occurs that Bruce was talking about..

Dave Kosh R.I.P. · Post by **Dave Kosh R.I.P.** » Aug 28th, '07, 19:42

I back flush mine Jerry after every run . 5 minutes per engine with fresh water then 15 seconds per engine with Saltex or equivalent. My port side has not been rebuilt since 2001 and is clean as a whistle and operating temperature is nice and low. My Starboard runs about 2-3 degrees warmer and I have replaced everything including an entire new heat exchanger and housing. It is also clean as whistle with that stuff. It works! Dave K

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Aug 28th, '07, 20:55

Dave I agree with you.
Here is another good product for those who do not flush the engines =

http://www.trac-online.com/barnacle-buster.html

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Aug 29th, '07, 16:08

Ouch.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Aug 29th, '07, 16:30

Thanks, Bruce, not a picture I needed to see just now.
Scary!

In Memory of Vicroy · Post by **In Memory of Vicroy** » Aug 29th, '07, 16:36

As the Coonass say "she done droooped a valve, cher". What kind of beast is that Bruce?

UV

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Aug 29th, '07, 19:11

That's the 420 Yanni from the above story.

I asked him how he didn't hear that noise on the way back in after the turbo sucked the bag and quit pushing air.

Something about beer and the radio.

At 35k for a new motor, I hope the beer was cold and the tunes comforting.................

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Aug 29th, '07, 19:49

Hear that Timmy? That's why I don't allow music on my boat. Love your system though.

Say.........haven't you blown up your engines?

Twice?

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 29th, '07, 22:43

Something went thump in the night...!!

Kevin · Post by **Kevin** » Aug 29th, '07, 23:30

Bruce, air being suddenly cut off did that? Can you explain the sequence of events. Lack of air mixed with melted plastic I am guessing. I will be cleaning my filters tomorrow!

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Aug 30th, '07, 05:14

Puffing I'm sure big black belows of smoke due to the lack of air, carbon built up in the cylinders and hung up some exhaust valves

A turbo diesel needs its turbo to run. Otherwise what you have is the fuel system dumping massive amounts of fuel into the cylinders that can't be burned.
This is why you have heavy black smoke when the air filter gets clogged or the turbo quits.

Well normal people would shut the engine down and be towed or idle back to the dock.

These guys were pushing hard to get back to the dock to jump on another boat which leads to the quote.

dougl33 · Post by **dougl33** » Aug 30th, '07, 09:19

mike ohlstein wrote:Hear that Timmy? That's why I don't allow music on my boat. Love your system though.

Say.........haven't you blown up your engines?

Twice?

Mike,

I'm the same way. No music while underway. When I take my buddies out they bitch and moan, but I always explain that I'm going to hear or feel a major problem way before I see it.

ZeroCavity · Post by **ZeroCavity** » Aug 30th, '07, 09:40

No music here also, give me the wind & engine music .

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Aug 30th, '07, 10:30

My engines are loud enough you can't hear it anyway! I seem to sleep better by engine noise than music when I'm just crew anyway.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Aug 30th, '07, 19:05

Bruce...

Excuse a dumb question from an ex sailor whose previous diesel experience was limited to engines less than 50 HP.. but in general just how much clearance is there in the 250-370 HP Cummins/Yanmar engines most of us have between the top of the pistons and the valves at their closest point?

bertram31.com

Lessons from the short bus riders........

Lessons from the short bus riders........

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