I thought I'd post this for some help and because I'm sure others have faced a similar issue or might.
My B35 is a yard in Baltimore for repower most of the work is being done by me and I had discussed the project with the yard prior to beginning work. I've had good experiences in the past with the yard and thought this is a way for me go accomplish the gas to diesel conversion without opening the check book.
Well all's gone ok, they pulled the motors when I was ready as well as the shafts and props. I've cleaned the bilge and removed the exhaust and old wiring.
Then I relaized a minor bulkhead between the engine room and the cockpit needed to be replaced. The one in the bilge, not the above deck part.
On Sat when I was there working on the boat I asked that to review the project with the yard and discuss what I wanted, early in the morning. Then in the afternoon as I was finishing work I found the boss and asked if we could look at the work before I left for the day. He said he was too busy to get to my boat. Mind you I waited for 15min to talk to him while he spoke to customers at the dock bar. I said ok, and put a work ticket in that specified what I wanted and to call me before work began, but that I wanted it done before Aug 1. So I could begin installing the new mortors. Work has been way too busy to get more than a Sat/Sun to work and I thought the job narrow enough in scope for the yard to do.
Well tonight on my way home from work I stopped by the yard to see if they'd looked at the job and to lock the salon where all my tools are.
What do I find? No salon doors and 3/4 of the salon bulkhead door sil replaced. The sliding doors and frame are completely removed. Further more the area I inteneded to be repaird had been worked on though the ply used was very blond and looked like standard ply or perhaps fir? I had specifically specified mahagony ply was to be used in the repair.
I was and am still fuming. The yard guy was gone and only a store clerk there. So I left and have to return tomorrow morning, the beginning of the only weekend off I'll have this summer to straighten the mess out.
In a way I'm stuck, I have a boat with no motors, shafts props It wouldn't even float. So I have to temper my reaction to this mess so that I can at least get my boat running.
So, no matter how much confidence you have in dealing with yards/mechancis. STAY VERY IN TUNE WITH WHATS GOING ON.....
I'm going over in the morning to confront the yard and sort out what's going on. Thankfully they weren't there tonight and I've had a little time to cool off.
I'll post what happens next. Though am on my way to the AC Rendezvous and need a break from work and the boat and especially the yard.
br,
JohnD[/u]
How to salvage a bad yard experience
Moderators: CaptPatrick, mike ohlstein, Bruce
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In Memory Walter K
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Given that you still have a lot of time to put in at the yard before you can float (and change yards if you want), I'd keep cool and ask what happened. At best, get the lower piece done for now and redo it later if it's not to your satisfaction. You're getting the attention given to those who do their own work. Not uncommon. Waiting to be talked to should have been your first signal. This time of year, people who don't translate to big bucks seem to have to wait on line or get the low end mechanics and carpenters on their boats. Sad but true. Walter
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Harry Babb
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John
We write PO's everyday for either material or outside services.......I am very familiar with your situation and I also know just how frustration it really is.
What you have in your favor is that you took the time to spell out EXACTLY what you want and are willing to pay for. At least you can refer to it in writing. I have found that if you can show IN WRITING what you and your supplier agreed on they are much more apt to work with you.
We have had to go so far as to spell out things that are generally understood as good business practices such as how to package a part. I have had to confront one of our Heat Treat suppliers because they just threw several shafts in a box and shiped them back to us from Texas to Alabama. The shafts were beat to hell and back. They told me that I would have to take the matter up with the shipper. Then they told me that I was not specific as to how I wanted them shipped back to me. In my case the work was done on an open account...........I stilll held the trump card........(Money for payment)
I agree with Walter........you may have to just suck up part of this because of the position that you are in. Personally I would delay progress payments and drag my heals as much as possible with the intention of getting my boat in the water before making final payment. THENNNNNNNN its time to settle disagrements.............
Harry Babb
We write PO's everyday for either material or outside services.......I am very familiar with your situation and I also know just how frustration it really is.
What you have in your favor is that you took the time to spell out EXACTLY what you want and are willing to pay for. At least you can refer to it in writing. I have found that if you can show IN WRITING what you and your supplier agreed on they are much more apt to work with you.
We have had to go so far as to spell out things that are generally understood as good business practices such as how to package a part. I have had to confront one of our Heat Treat suppliers because they just threw several shafts in a box and shiped them back to us from Texas to Alabama. The shafts were beat to hell and back. They told me that I would have to take the matter up with the shipper. Then they told me that I was not specific as to how I wanted them shipped back to me. In my case the work was done on an open account...........I stilll held the trump card........(Money for payment)
I agree with Walter........you may have to just suck up part of this because of the position that you are in. Personally I would delay progress payments and drag my heals as much as possible with the intention of getting my boat in the water before making final payment. THENNNNNNNN its time to settle disagrements.............
Harry Babb
hb
No different here in my neck of the woods. You spell it out and still get shafted. How long is too long for a starter solenoid? The part arrives lickety split but takes almost a month to get installed. Thank god it was only intermittant problem and boat was still usable.
My carpentry work that I had a carpenter start......well, he does great work, but had had more personal problems in the course of three weeks than you can shake a stick at. All in all showed up maybe 20 percent of the time he said he would. Needless to say I bought a table saw because three months is just too long to wait for a friggin cabinet. Not even going to attempt to find electrician that knows how to spell "volt" so started reading about the subject matter and wiring things up myself.
I know your position sucks but like the boys said definitly better to cool off and not end up with extensive yard time. Just walk in there with a smile although much easier said than done. Maybe we should start making clones of Bruce and Pat and start distributing around the country.
My carpentry work that I had a carpenter start......well, he does great work, but had had more personal problems in the course of three weeks than you can shake a stick at. All in all showed up maybe 20 percent of the time he said he would. Needless to say I bought a table saw because three months is just too long to wait for a friggin cabinet. Not even going to attempt to find electrician that knows how to spell "volt" so started reading about the subject matter and wiring things up myself.
I know your position sucks but like the boys said definitly better to cool off and not end up with extensive yard time. Just walk in there with a smile although much easier said than done. Maybe we should start making clones of Bruce and Pat and start distributing around the country.
bad yard
Seems quite the norm when your working on boats. I did my own gas to diesel repower two winters ago..took me all winter but I didnot have to put up with crap like that. And they wonder why people are getting out of boating. Here in NJ nothing is moving. Boats are sitting on the market for years. Between slip cost, fuel, and govt regulations most guys I know are getting out. Problem is they cant sell their boats so they just sit. Hang in there and stay on them ( be nice) and remember the cardnial 1/3 rule never ever pay up front for anything. Hold that last 1/3 for adjustments.
after 10 years in commercial marinas i got a slip in a small neighborhood marina....like breathing fresh air for the first time......when i left the last yard the owner said to me "i'm glad to see you go, i dont want customers who pull and replace their own engines....i want costumers who give me their credit card and say.......do what it takes"
When I grew up we kept our boat (22' Lyman) at a dock in front of our house and stored and worked on it in our garage, so dealing w/ a marina was a new experience for me.
I found they were anxious to do the work but would not give me a solid price on any but the most straightforward work. Aside from that it was a matter of them tearing it apart and then telling me how much to put it back together. A somewhat vulnerable position to be in.
In the end it became a huge inconvenience for him to have the briefest of discussions with me and the reality was he just wanted a TO DO list, a credit card number and for me to trust him. Which I did not.
I moved to a small yacht club and one of the members runs a yard and things are much better now.
I found they were anxious to do the work but would not give me a solid price on any but the most straightforward work. Aside from that it was a matter of them tearing it apart and then telling me how much to put it back together. A somewhat vulnerable position to be in.
In the end it became a huge inconvenience for him to have the briefest of discussions with me and the reality was he just wanted a TO DO list, a credit card number and for me to trust him. Which I did not.
I moved to a small yacht club and one of the members runs a yard and things are much better now.
Thanks Guy's it has helped to vent and here that others have found the same thing.
Well, I confronted the yard this morning and I think we have things worked out. It got a little hot at first, but I was able to get through that part and used the attention to discuss the next steps of the project and how I wished the mis-guided repiars to be finish. I believe we now have an understanding.
Funny thing is the I don't think the yard's out to shaft me, just took the repair a few steps further than I wanted to go at this point in time.
I tell you, between all the expenses and frustrations I'm finding it harder and harder to remain devoted to boating. I just keep thinking "I don't need this crap". For the short term I'm commited, however should the boat market turn around I might just jump ship ;)
I know now why Capt. Patrick doesn't own a boat, he's truely a wise man.
On the bright side, I'm off to the Atlantic City Rendezvous and I'm looking forward to seeing some old friends and fogetting about working on the boat and the daytime job as well.
Cheers,
John
Well, I confronted the yard this morning and I think we have things worked out. It got a little hot at first, but I was able to get through that part and used the attention to discuss the next steps of the project and how I wished the mis-guided repiars to be finish. I believe we now have an understanding.
Funny thing is the I don't think the yard's out to shaft me, just took the repair a few steps further than I wanted to go at this point in time.
I tell you, between all the expenses and frustrations I'm finding it harder and harder to remain devoted to boating. I just keep thinking "I don't need this crap". For the short term I'm commited, however should the boat market turn around I might just jump ship ;)
I know now why Capt. Patrick doesn't own a boat, he's truely a wise man.
On the bright side, I'm off to the Atlantic City Rendezvous and I'm looking forward to seeing some old friends and fogetting about working on the boat and the daytime job as well.
Cheers,
John
John-
My B31 has a bad fuel pump (new one should arrive Friday), so the past few nights, after getting home from work at 6 or so, I've jumped in the Whaler and looked for breakers. Caught fish constantly both nights at the BB, with enough keepers and some blues to go home and have a late fresh fish dinner. With every cast, a little more stress flew out with the line and into the Bay, until I was completely decompressed and stress free. That's why we do it. Hang in there, and I'm looking forward to sipping a cold one with you in AC.
John F.
Came home from Annapolis on Sunday with the family after having a sushi dinner at Joss's--2' to 3' chop in the Bay that the B31 ran right through (and that the Whaler would have beat me badly in). Feeling that your family is always safe, having the option of running offshore, and having the prettiest boat in Ego Alley is why we do it in Bertrams. She does need diesels though--which you'll have.
My B31 has a bad fuel pump (new one should arrive Friday), so the past few nights, after getting home from work at 6 or so, I've jumped in the Whaler and looked for breakers. Caught fish constantly both nights at the BB, with enough keepers and some blues to go home and have a late fresh fish dinner. With every cast, a little more stress flew out with the line and into the Bay, until I was completely decompressed and stress free. That's why we do it. Hang in there, and I'm looking forward to sipping a cold one with you in AC.
John F.
Came home from Annapolis on Sunday with the family after having a sushi dinner at Joss's--2' to 3' chop in the Bay that the B31 ran right through (and that the Whaler would have beat me badly in). Feeling that your family is always safe, having the option of running offshore, and having the prettiest boat in Ego Alley is why we do it in Bertrams. She does need diesels though--which you'll have.
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offshore31
- Senior Member
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John
Had similar problems for past 4 years where I was. Even if i spelled it out in writing, they'd either do it wrong or do more than i asked. When i had it spelled out in writing and they did more than what they were supposed to, they ate the cost. The problem comes with 'verbal' agreements. We all envision something different. See if they'll cooperate and work things out. They're usually pretty reasonable, and the problem comes from mis-communication or interpretation. You and the yard foreman might be on the same page, but the guy doing the work sees things differently.
Hope it works out for you as i can truly sympathize with your pain. I'm getting to the point where i'll just do it all myself. Only way to get things done, and done right.
Good luck
Had similar problems for past 4 years where I was. Even if i spelled it out in writing, they'd either do it wrong or do more than i asked. When i had it spelled out in writing and they did more than what they were supposed to, they ate the cost. The problem comes with 'verbal' agreements. We all envision something different. See if they'll cooperate and work things out. They're usually pretty reasonable, and the problem comes from mis-communication or interpretation. You and the yard foreman might be on the same page, but the guy doing the work sees things differently.
Hope it works out for you as i can truly sympathize with your pain. I'm getting to the point where i'll just do it all myself. Only way to get things done, and done right.
Good luck
Joe A.
lurker (ex-b31r)
lurker (ex-b31r)
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Brewster Minton
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I feel your pain but thats what its coming to. I do almost everything on my boats, all 4 of them but when I need stuff from the yard I do it the old way I give 100$ to the guy in cash right there and tell him Ill do it again when the stuff is done right the following afternoon or whenever. Cash is King of the yard. It should not be that way, but.
Nothing but miserable experiences w/ yards...sometimes I have to use them and it is always a cluster f*** that I get overcharged for.
Fortunately, an aquaintance that has been just as frustrated with the way yards treat their customers is opening a new yard just down the ICW a bit, so if/when something needs doing I'll have a place to go.
Rick....if anybody in NC wants their name/location, let me know.
Fortunately, an aquaintance that has been just as frustrated with the way yards treat their customers is opening a new yard just down the ICW a bit, so if/when something needs doing I'll have a place to go.
Rick....if anybody in NC wants their name/location, let me know.
Working on boats is not what boating is all about.
This I learned from the past several years and the ethanol problems. The boat was constantly being worked on with NO headway. Actually I was going backwards as I was putting off maintanance just to try and get her going. Now that she is running all the little maintanace items are popping up, dab of paint here, corroded contact there, etc etc. I wish I could just give a credit card to someone and have them do more or less work then contracted for as long as it was done correctly just so I do not have to do it.
Anyway, just going out on a beutifull day dropping a line in and BS'n with the buddies and family is what is all about. If you forget go out on a bud's boat so you remember why we do it all.
This I learned from the past several years and the ethanol problems. The boat was constantly being worked on with NO headway. Actually I was going backwards as I was putting off maintanance just to try and get her going. Now that she is running all the little maintanace items are popping up, dab of paint here, corroded contact there, etc etc. I wish I could just give a credit card to someone and have them do more or less work then contracted for as long as it was done correctly just so I do not have to do it.
Anyway, just going out on a beutifull day dropping a line in and BS'n with the buddies and family is what is all about. If you forget go out on a bud's boat so you remember why we do it all.
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Capt Dick Dean
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I'm going to call Dock H @ AC right now and make sure a drink is waiting upon arrival.
After a while come over to the Irish Wake. You can lay back on the stbd engine box. I'll hve a pillow and blanket. Then we can sort things out and you'll be just fine. Might take some time tho. Are you leaving Sunday?
Yo' fren
After a while come over to the Irish Wake. You can lay back on the stbd engine box. I'll hve a pillow and blanket. Then we can sort things out and you'll be just fine. Might take some time tho. Are you leaving Sunday?
Yo' fren
A/K/A El Gaupo
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thuddddddd
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Headgaskets
Hey John this should make you feel better. On the way home I blew the port motor. Then got a rope wraped around the good motor. Started the bad motor and motored at 7 kts to a bulkhead on the ICW. After 30 dives or so I got the rope cut. Motored home at 7 kts with Blacklash keeping a watch on me. Pulled the heads and the gasket let go between 6 and 8 holes. This is a common problem on 3208's. Cleaning all the surfaces for new gaskets. George is doing the heavy wrench turning and George Jr carries the 150 pound heads around. I am just too weak. Should have her back together over the weekend. I did the starboard side last fall. We knew the port was going to need attention. We had it set for the last fall; but it is done now. Just glad it did not let go on the way to AC.
Charlie, sorry to hear of your troubles. You've got a good crew in George & George jr.
I got my old thru-hull's out and the struts are off ready to go get reamed, I know how they feel ;). If things go well I should bring the motors back from Crisfield late next week.
From there I turn it over to the yard and pray... So the project is only about 4wks behind and mostly due to me not finding the time to do the dirty work. The install will be in the yards hands with the exception of a couple of days for me to paint once everything is dry fitted.
Good luck on geting your boat running agin. I may beg an Aug/Sep Tuna/Dolphin trip from ya. It seems I've got this fancy new custom off shore rod an 50-TW that needs more exercise than the white perch behind the house can give it....
br,
John
I got my old thru-hull's out and the struts are off ready to go get reamed, I know how they feel ;). If things go well I should bring the motors back from Crisfield late next week.
From there I turn it over to the yard and pray... So the project is only about 4wks behind and mostly due to me not finding the time to do the dirty work. The install will be in the yards hands with the exception of a couple of days for me to paint once everything is dry fitted.
Good luck on geting your boat running agin. I may beg an Aug/Sep Tuna/Dolphin trip from ya. It seems I've got this fancy new custom off shore rod an 50-TW that needs more exercise than the white perch behind the house can give it....
br,
John
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