Cabin modifs B28

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 5th, '20, 08:05

Well, time has come so that my legs can finally stretch out completely in the V berth.

To that effect, there will be an addition of 13cm into the fwd cabin to the detriment of the hanging locker. Which locker, which is composed of 4 drawers (hidden behind the brown curtain) where I keep my clothes, will move out towards the hull so that the two people sitting in the salon corner can at last start seeing each other without the locker's corner in their view.
I only HOPE that the bulkhead I had to cut free from the hull with the Fein tool, was not structural!

https://imgur.com/a/bkad6ox

JH_B28 · Post by **JH_B28** » Oct 6th, '20, 07:04

Hi Yannis,

I don't believe those bulkheads are structural. I've seen some boats that have removed them to have a more open look. It does give a little support to the front deck that carries the weight of the bridge through the windshield but it will just flex a little if you remove it. No harm done.

I glassed in my bulkheads to the liner so it would have a more solid connection to the hull (don't like screws).

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 6th, '20, 07:17

Hey Jorge,

By liner you mean the underbed structure? That ends up at the engine bulkhead?
If yes, that is gellcoated; did you get rid of the g coat first?

Also, the boats that you may have seen, still carry some bulkhead at their extremities, plus, some others carry vertical supports.

Oh, well I'll drown one day!

JH_B28 · Post by **JH_B28** » Oct 6th, '20, 12:38

Yannis wrote:Hey Jorge,

By liner you mean the underbed structure? That ends up at the engine bulkhead?
If yes, that is gellcoated; did you get rid of the g coat first?

Also, the boats that you may have seen, still carry some bulkhead at their extremities, plus, some others carry vertical supports.

Oh, well I'll drown one day!

Yes, removed gelcoat with the grinder for proper bonding. Maybe you can fabricate a support out of S.S tube for peace of mind and it gives you the foot space you want.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 6th, '20, 13:00

Yeah great idea, let's see...
I stepped on the fwd deck, didn't feel any give from the deck. Perhaps with Bertram weather...
Hang in there, I'll make Louis XIII premises!!!

MarkD · Post by **MarkD** » Oct 7th, '20, 14:25

Yannis:

So, you eliminated the bulkhead so when you are in the v-berth and your head at the bow, you can stretch out completely? I see the cushions leaning out into the salon? What am I missing? Also, reference the half empty glass - it was only a half of a beer job?

Mark

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 7th, '20, 14:52

Ha, ha none of the above!

I put my head aft. There will be a new bulkhead, division is a better term, at 13cm aft of the old one. There will be of course all new cushions because except for the addition in length this stbd mattress will also become wider. The entrance to the v berth will be narrower by approx 5-10cm, we haven't figured that out yet.
But where the biggest fallacy of them all lies, is the half empty beer glass.
Well, this is a fine rose wine in a wine glass, that has only temporarily been placed on the table for the needs of the shooting session! Even us Greeks only have two hands!

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Oct 7th, '20, 17:22

Whilst I don't think the forward bulkhead adds much structural value support wise in true "while you're at it" style I would add at least a couple of supports in the form of simple stanchion like posts each spaced about 1/3 the way along the dimensional width of that bulkhead area.....or, probably simpler to, engineer/install / replace the bulkhead with one with cutouts for the open areas wanted.

That's my Bahamian 5 cents offered!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 7th, '20, 22:22

Yannis

You do realize that the 28 and the 31 was designed for people under 6 ft tall and under 180 lbs.

Years ago we fished with a guy we called Big John, he was under 6ft tall but weighed in at close to 280. He never made it into the cabin.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 7th, '20, 23:55

Preston,

First of all, why 5 cents when 2 would be just enough? LOL.

Then, unfortunately, all the open width is wanted...I will put the collective wisdom to work (mine, my carpenter's and my grp guy's) to find something that can be implemented without having to either rip the boat apart or be extremely complicated; I was thinking of a metal piece that would tie up at the top of the bulkhead gone, right at the screws' area that were holding it in place, which metal piece will make a U of some sort at the stbd extremity to disburse some weight onto the hull. It could be a wooden bar too.

Tony,

I'm well above both of these limits but I assure you that given my Nadia Comanecci body flexibility, I can fit through considerably narrower openings!
What's funny though is my carpenter, who is extra fat, and claims that if the entrance to the v-berth is narrowed, HE will not be able to go through and therefore will not perform the job needed. Which is true!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 8th, '20, 20:40

Yannis

Now that is funny if he can not fit into the cabin. That would require pictures. Obviously you must be paying him too much, he is eating too well.

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Oct 10th, '20, 12:44

Yannis,

Sounds like you have a plan as to some reinforcement at least.

For whatever the reason our Bahamian colloquial expression is 5 cents not 2 cents..........probably to account for our third world added cost of living!!!!

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 12th, '20, 09:22

This is today's progress:

https://imgur.com/a/x0nf3LA

Preston,

I'm not too sure there needs to be any reinforcement under the front stbd window. There seems to exist enough beef at the corner to hold the stress from the flybridge; I might put a wooden wedge under the (now visible and reachable) gunnel, where the side window meets the front one. If you have a point why I should imperatively do soth else, please step forward.

Preston Burrows · Post by **Preston Burrows** » Oct 12th, '20, 16:55

Yannis,

Dunno...........my thinking is primarily making overly sure now than wish you had later - bear in mind all the weight of the flybridge, the cap and the persons / equipment etc. on it, are basically supported by a [very old aluminum] window frame and two pilasters port and starboard aft...

Any flexing of note would emanate from the gunnel sides in my estimation..........and we both know how much our B28's enjoy rolling side to side.............so, with that in mind, if it were me I would try and spread the load as far across the beam of the boat from side to side as possibly can be by way of some form of linear support across the forward bulkhead you are modifying.

All this is my common sense [?] opinion of course and is what would guide me unless an engineer or naval architect etc. corrected me otherwise!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 12th, '20, 20:18

Yannis

Spreading the load is always a good idea. Especially in a rocking and twisting boat. You don't need to build a new bulkhead. You need to just spread the load.

Unfortunately for some reason my system does not like the Greek version of Imgur and I can not see your picture. I would add a brace at some point that goes to the reinforcing running under the area the bulkhead was attached too.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 13th, '20, 03:02

Preston,

Thanks. The thing is that vertically under where the old bulkhead was removed will be my own head, so really nothing vertical along the length can be put to support anything.
I will see if I can make a horizontal support that will probably be screwed in the holes that were supporting the top of the old bulkhead, that will extend all the way under the gunnel and will (probably) be glassed under it.

Tony,

I doubt there is a Greek version of Imgur!!
I believe that what I just explained to Preston is most likely what you suggest. Thanks.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Oct 13th, '20, 21:07

Yannis

I was just joking about the Greek version, because for some reason, your Imgur links are the only ones I can not see.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 16th, '20, 08:51

I just couldn't stand the view of the old remaining bulkhead, the one to the right of the new drawers.

So, today, instead of installing the new drawers in place and get it over with, we removed that bulkhead and started a whole new measuring session...
When you are cheap, you pay the consequences...

This is how the two lowest drawers will be positioned. There will be another 4 above them, but first we need to make the boxes.
Patience is a virtue!

https://imgur.com/a/8U9Se3I

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Oct 30th, '20, 10:36

Still a lot to do, but getting there...

https://imgur.com/a/aAUcOwG

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 1st, '20, 21:23

Yannis

I really like how you are making everything functional and it still fits and does not take up any additional room.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Nov 2nd, '20, 02:03

Thanks Tony.

The way they designed the interior space back then was anything but maximized.

For instance, the galley had at least 50 cm of lost space behind it. I gave that space to the corridor while adding useful cabinet space ...same with this hanging locker. Who in their right mind needed room for 20 ! hanging coats, pants or raincoats? And where would you then store all else? From sheets and towels to underwear, t shirts, bathing suits, etc etc.
With this configuration I can store 3 months' worth of clothes PLUS add useful floor space to the cabin.

Oh, and he who says that IKEA kitchens are not worth it, that they don't last etc, they have to come to my boat. No other drawer has ever been pounded so much with Bertram weather, beaten to death, slammed open and back...7 years now there is nothing that failed. So, and although in the meantime their collection has changed and couldn't find the exact same drawers as in the galley anymore, I got a very similar color for the clothes' side.
Plus, the person who will be seating at the bulkhead (not seen here/under construction) will at last be able to make eye contact with the others on the couch because now the drawers are recessed and out of the way. I'm a happy camper!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Nov 2nd, '20, 21:03

Ikea Cabinets. Now that is something. I have looked at them, they are not that bad. On par with what we would call builders cabinets over here. Those are cabinets builders put in when they try to flip a house and make some money.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 21st, '21, 01:23

Some progress made, slowed down by covid lock downs and my carpenter's injury that keeps him idle for 8 weeks...5 down 3 to go!

Adding the teak trim all around...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 1872_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 4d07_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... cafa_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 453d_b.jpg

Upside down pics, showing wooden brace with elastic supports to be bolted on cabin sole...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 67ae_b.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 0e5d_b.jpg

Almost there...6 through bolts to secure locker onto fwd window ledge not there yet...
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/509 ... 764d_b.jpg

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 21st, '21, 09:20

Upgrades are looking good Yannis!

Looks like much of the project is underway so when he gets back to work it won't take long to complete. ...we can hope anyway.

I had two projects lined up for this winter layup...exhaust which I really have no choice is underway, way behind but underway. The windshield redo was the 2nd and I know that's just not going to happen. At least if I want to get in and use which IS going to happen. For me it's COvid curves at work and this winters weather has been like a real winter. I got spoiled the past few years with such mild winters.

Couple more weeks and your carpenter will be back at it, thanks for pics.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 21st, '21, 11:19

Carl,

Especially you who has not enjoyed your boat at all last season, I agree, to hell with the windshield, move it for next year!

My carpenter has to finish the (invisible in the pics) enlarged cabin bed. He has to act fast, not only for what refers to carpentry, but also so as to give me enough time to order the new mattress and cover. By experience the cushion/mattress/upholstery technicians are the ones you can easily grow a bad disease with...
There are also some fine touches necessary to the locker, that cannot be seen in the pics.
Im having some inox mods too, motors service, ..., ..., hope to be ready by easter, our easter is on May 2nd, I want to leave just after and come back in October...oh well...

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Feb 21st, '21, 16:42

Looking good Yannis I am waiting on some good weather to seal up all my wood work. If the snow ever melts I will get started on installing my engines.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 21st, '21, 19:31

Snipe,

you have waaay more ....”open accounts” than me, to take care of.
Good luck and thanks!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 21st, '21, 21:12

Yannis

I can't believe how you have modified to cabin to open it up and get more storage and use out of it. Great planning.

Now be nice to your woodworker, bring him food, drinks, do his laundry, maybe he will recover faster.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 22nd, '21, 01:21

Tony,

This guy, my 65yo adorable carpenter, was working on another boat.

He was holding an angle grinder doing work above his head, when the grinder slipped off his hand and while falling it cut his right index tendon, and by continuing its fall, cut him deep on the leg.
He was rushed to emergencies where he was luckily taken-in immediately (you know that with covid, all hospitals have other priorities and it’s not guaranteed that there will be personnel available at all times) and withstood a 2 hour double surgery with two teams of doctors, one on the hand and the other on the leg, I think he told me 27 stitches on the leg and 20+ on the hand.

He is in plaster for 8 weeks for the tendon to heal, plus whatever physical therapy after that...what an ordeal!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 22nd, '21, 07:57

Angle grinders are no joke with body parts in such close proximity to a wheel spinning 10,000rpm...never mind the wheel is abrasive.

I'm not going to get on a soap box and preach about those that remove the guards. But they are dangerous as it is and need to be respected.
I do not know how those shows depicting guys working in shops show guys cutting with these grinders with guards removed, just a pair of light duty gloves worn and maybe safety glasses. Gloves aren't stopping anything...although maybe good to help find the fingers easier.
Makes for good TV with sparks and debris flying everywhere...but gives people the sense of that's how its done and its ok.

Hope your carpenter mends quick and well...he's lucky and I'm sure he knows it, could have been worse.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 22nd, '21, 11:21

Now that you mention it, Carl, my inox guy was over at the boat yesterday to put the window in and cut some bow rail...long story short, his grinder had the guard removed. As a matter of fact all technicians that I ever worked with had it removed.
Gloves? What’s that. Goggles? Thats funny too...
I count their fingers, they all have ten, I must be overreacting !

Snipe · Post by **Snipe** » Feb 22nd, '21, 12:41

The grinders are not forgiving that’s for sure. We use them with panel saw blades in them to back gouge aluminum for the coast guard before final weld and I have seen a guy take one to the forehead not a pretty site.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Feb 22nd, '21, 21:23

Yannis

They put guards on tools for a reason. I had the one on my table saw removed for a while until a piece of wood came flying back at me.

About 10 years ago, I was doing a lot of work with molding one weekend and getting tired. Was using he chop saw, I cut the wood and I lifted the blade up, did not realize the guard did not drop. Blade was still spinning when I reached for the piece of wood. Got off lucky, 5 stitches and just missed the tendon. It did cut my knuckle bone pretty good. Luckily, i had released the power to the blade.

Power tools are dangerous.

Glad he is ok, he could have bleed to death.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Feb 23rd, '21, 07:44

....more so as he is diabetic and the hospital was 60km away, as he was in another town, and the blood wouldn't stop just because he is diabetic.

Rawleigh · Post by **Rawleigh** » Feb 23rd, '21, 14:09

They have really improved the guard thank goodness. I was looking at a Milwaukee cordless grinder and the guard had a flip lever to tension it and was easy to remove and replace. I try to wear a face shield and my welding leathers when I use them!

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Feb 23rd, '21, 15:29

Yannis wrote: ↑Feb 23rd, '21, 07:44 the blood wouldn't stop just because he is diabetic.

..I'm thinking the gouge cut into his body may have had a little something to do with the bleeding too.

Whats nice about grinder cuts is they tear off material, no little flaps of skin left to fold back over like with a knife cut.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 27th, '21, 09:18

Moving slowly due to all the difficulties, but moving nevertheless...
Starboard bed extension finished. Awaiting for new longer and wider matress!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

scenarioL113 · Post by **scenarioL113** » Apr 27th, '21, 18:01

Yannis

Did you move the starboard bulkhead "back" a few inches (10 centimeters or so?) The updated pictures look nice but I cant tell if the bulkhead was moved.
I know that was the purpose of this thread but I was wondering how much you moved it and if only was needed to move on the one side?

All in all it looks good

Do you live on your boat or just spend all your time on it? Either way it is all good...

Frank

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 27th, '21, 21:19

Yannis

As usually great use of space. Did you consider making an insert so the whole V berth area is usable as a super size sleeping area?

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 27th, '21, 22:17

Tony,

I scratched the old middle rectangular insert that had a cushion on it. I realized that I needed the extra "floor" space between the two berths so that one can get in and out of bed without having to follow circus contortionist classes.
Also, I realized that the stock insert did not add bed space to where the problem lied, the shoulder area.
With this modification, I obtained a wider and longer starboard side berth, I eased the in and out movement by adding depth to the cabin floor and I changed the mattresses to render them more comfortable.

Frank,

If you scroll back, you will see that I demolished the stbd side bulkhead and added a good 15cm to the fwd cabin. In the meantime I redid the locker (which I had redone before) and made it so it meets my needs.
I live 8 months in my home, and I usually leave Athens around mid June until late September. I have a goal to spend 100 days in the boat if I can. I visit islands where either my family or my friends have a summer house, however I never move out of the boat. So, I turned the boat into a self sustained entity, where I can be comfortable either when I'm alone or with company.
The only problem I haven't solved so far is the water supply, by adding a watermaker, but given that my boat is all 12v from solar, I can't use 220v watermakers, and I don't want a gen set or a shore cable. I know there exist 12v watermakers but my solar capacity of 260 watts is barely sufficient for my other needs, 90% of which are my fridge and freezer. In the meantime, I carry 350 liters of water so I can be independent for a few days.

Better view:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Apr 28th, '21, 21:10

Yannis

That is only 21.5 amps going into a 12 volt battery. So if you draw more than 21.5 amps an hour, you are draining your batteries. Plus at night you do not make electricity.

Have you thought about a sail boat windmill type generator to produce power on windy nights? It could be removable when you are running and in use at the while anchored up.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Apr 28th, '21, 22:12

Tony,

In our area, the calculations are done for 8-9 useful sun hours. So, 21 amps X 9 hours = 189 amps per day.
I have 4 X 100 amp batteries = 400 amps bank. Given I can only draw half of that, so that the batteries don't wear out, that gives me a total useful bank of 200 amps, which my solars, as shown above, fill each day. There are no clouds or rain in the summer, and in the rare occasion that there might be a cloudy day, I would start the motors for 10- 15 minutes. This happens once or twice in the whole summer.

My fridge and freezer draw around 70 amps per day, so I’m left with a reserve of 50 amps ( essentially one full and separate 100 amp battery divided by two) to start one motor, plus another 80 amps for all other needs (fan, music, iPad, cell, lights, water pumps, toilet etc), which are largely sufficient.
To all this I do not count the additional amps that my motors can generate while cruising. That’s a bonus.

So, all my needs are covered, it’s just not enough to add a water-maker which draws a lot.
Technology has already evolved and I know that for the same real estate of my solar panels I could now obtain up to 40% more amps, but I’m not yet ready to start amusing myself with swapping my 8 y.o. existing panels...

Yes, I have thought of the wind generator but it’s too expensive and there are other problems too, like where to install it, how to remove it etc, so for the moment it is not a priority.

One other issue with the 12v water-makers, except the draw, is that they are very sensitive. I heard that they don't last a lot. For a 5k outlay, that is a serious drawback. So, for the moment, that is not a priority either!

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » May 21st, '21, 00:16

New matresses with softer top layer, port is finished, stbd needs new cover.
One no longer needs to twist around to get in and out of bed, you just walk in, sit and just lift legs.
Reverse the sequence when going out!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/191620136 ... ed-public/