Transmission cooler

[Carl]

Soooo....thought I was about done and ready. That was till gear stopped as I was working on the control cables. A look at the fluid showed I was pumping pepto bismal. Changed fluid removed the cooler assuming tomorrow I'll pressure test to find out its religious. Hole "E" that is.

So now looking for a replacement I see SB marine has em for 325.00 and also found Mr Cool has em for 170.00. I like the price...but like more they have anode and a ground.

Anybody have first hand info? If one cooler goes...am I prudent to replace the other side? Or just pressure test.

ZF trans...changing fluid a couple times ok? Or should I be pulling trans from boat?
It works fine with boat on jack stands now that I changed fluid...


Boats...

[Tony Meola]

Carl

I used a lenco cooler. They are located on long island. Took s something like three days to get the cooler. I would replace both of them. They only have a 5 to 7 year life spans in salt waster.

Assuming that you use 30 weight oil in the transmission. I would run 10 wt oil through the cooler. Then once you think you ssrd good go to the normal oil wt.

When my cooler went, we used 5 gallons of oil to flush it out, then I ran it to get it real hot and still had condensation. Had to change the oil two more times before it stopped.

I hope yours clears out faster them mine did.

[Carl]

5-7 year life span, really? that's dumb.

Wonder why such a short life...
Maybe I should have kept the trans coolers from my gas motors. I had them in there for 24 years and I don't recall Bob telling me he had ever changed them in his 12 years of ownership. That would be 36 years and were still going fine.

I can call the new owner and see if they are still going.

Did I ever mention I sold my ol'440 motors? eBay- paid for picked up and shipped to Germany!
They will have new life in in restoration boats used as mega yacht tenders.
I tossed the transmissions in asking for pictures when done.
I'm tickled that they will continue to be used and not sent to the scrap heap.



Do they make them differently? Diesel shouldn't make a difference....maybe the alum gear housing where my old setup was the Borg Warner cast iron gear housing.

Glad to hear you were able to get the gears sorted out. My issue...gonna be tough to get trans hot on the hard.

I see your an oil in the gears person. I flip flopped back and forth and went with recommendation of the gearcase, manual and mostly a bud going with ATF. Hence the pepto bismo pink.

[bob lico]

mine are 14 years old in perfect condition. the bundle tubes are a perfect fit to clean with 22 caliber pistol cleaning wire brush and i did this about seven years ago. now as you know i run "salt away " thru salt water system and let it sit 1/2 hour then flush with fresh water WITH RAW WATER VALVES SHUT using hose,buckets from crash valve intakes. i just changed gear oil to replace shaft piston rings (THE ONLY PARTS THAT WEARS ) and found out your local NAPA store caries 30wt. NON detergent oil --------wow that`s easy.

[Charlie J]

carl
as tony said
lenco would be my go to place
replaced all my coolers from them

[bob lico]

i have been to lenco numerous times with other peoples coolers . the owner is a real stand up guy and took over the business when daniel got sick and passed. my boat is in the water 9 months a year from march to December so i have to be very conscious of those litter critters growing in the coolers then dying and becoming as hard as concrete.DON`T GIVE THEM A HOME

[Carl]

Soooo....I pulled cooler brought to shop to pressure test it. Has to be the cooler right but better to be safe then sorry.

I attached a quick connect to one side and plugged the other port than stuck into a bucket of water, turned my head away expecting to take a bath and connects shops 120psi air line. Nothing...not even my quick connect leaked. 2nd guessing myself I loosened the bottom plug and she started bubbling, snugged and it stopped. Not sure why but I inverted the cooler and stuck back in water...nothing.

Sooooo cooler is not leaking. Pink fluid and trans coupler stopped turning. Filter was dirty the first time, 2nd time after fluid change filter wasn't clean, but not bad either...and pink fluid again.

Put it back together this afternoon...but started raining pretty good and didn't want to get paper air filters wet and didn't want to cover hot motors when I left. So tomorrow we see if it runs better Or.... or what, beats me.
Pink fluid...motor oil and ATF mix? Was it water...

Boats

[Tony Meola]

Carl

Flush the transmission by diconecting the oil lines. Put the suction side into a bucket with the fluid ,and the other side into an empty bucket. Start the engines and the suction side will suck up the fluid and the dirty fluid will come out into the empty bucket.

Once she is in the water, run her to get them hot then check the oil again. If needed change it.

If you have zf transmisions, I believe they all use oil and not transmision fluid. Mine calls for 30 WT non detergent. I believe zf came out a couple of years ago and said you can use multi weight detergent.

My boat dockd in brackish water, so I anticipated getting more than 7 years from mine, but did not. Who knows, could have been a bad cooler, or electrolysis. I changed both sides, since loosing a transmission in the middle of docking was a surprise. Replacement cooler has zincs, but they seem to disappear real fast, while my heat exchanger last forever.

From what I can gather, they are the weak link on the Cummins.

I know Bob will disagree but 14 years, he is definitely rolling the dice. I would change them to be safe.

I know ZBob will dfisag

[Tony Meola]

Carl,

Do you think someone mixed the transmision fluid and oil? I say that because trans fluid is super high detergent, possible stiring things up causing the screen to clog. Might even cause foaming.

What does the other side look like?

[bob lico]

tony i really don`t have a answer. i put the boat in the water 14 years ago after a total 6 year renovation. like i said in the past i get all the Rotella i want for free but after coming down the river after a 4 hour trip the oil alarms were screaming because the oil turned to piss so i use the Cummins blue a never had a problem. other than the oil the engines never broke down or any other issues other than wear and tear on salt water pumps so i replaced with Seaboard Marine . i never heard of these issues you bring up but i am listening.BTW i am docked between two inlets about 15 miles east or west so the water is as salty as ocean.Zincs are gone by Dec. when i remove from water.boat cruises at 28 to 30 for hours on end. many just lucky.carl i think somebody put ATF in those gears.

[Carl]

Bob, I know for sure I put ATF in...but that is what it calls for.

Now when I got them they had gear oil in them or at least the top layer was gear oil. After running for awhile in gear the fluids turned pink.

I assumed pink means water in the trans fluid...but now wondering if the place that did the work left old ATF and topped with straight oil. In any case one trans has lots of debris and needs to be changed.

In any case, today they ran well...I'm moving forward with control connections to go for a splash check.

[bob lico]

carl -------please no ATF IN ZF-220IRM USE 30WT. NON DET, ONLT like i said at your local NAPA STORE.stop listening to the know it alls i am trying to help you

[Tony Meola]

Carl

Bob is correct. The 220s call for 30 weight oil non detergent. It is out there. I picked up mine a t walmart.

[Carl]

You and Bob may be correct about using 30wt in ZF 220's...

BUT I do not have ZF-220's, I have ZF 63A gears.

The 63A gears call for ATF. I called local dealer on this when motors came in after I checked the fluid and saw it was not ATF.
He said I could run 30wt as it would not hurt anything, he knows some guys do run 30 wt and gears are quieter.
But then he finished by saying ATF is what the 63's call for.

[1962 31]

I have the 63s and run atf

[Carl]

Good to know, thanks Tom.

Sounds like we really have the same setup with 210's and 63's.


Did you ever change out the props? Wondering if those 210's can push that much water.

[Amberjack]

Carl--I have 630A's and have run Mercon III ATF for the last 15 years. This is what the manual calls for and I didn't even know there was a controversy.

[1962 31]

im still on the hard and have lots more work to do
we've been slammed at my shop last 3 weeks gotta pay for boat parts somehow
going to make a big push next 2 weeks to get it wet again and well see how the props do
ill do body work and finish work with the boat at my house

[Carl]

slammed and short handed here...makes finding time to work on the boat interesting.

[bob lico]

EXCUSEEEEEEEEE ME 63A not ZF 220 IRM. i wish you had ZF IRM A fabulous set of gears.

[Carl]

The gears came with the motors and from what I read they are more then up for the task of being driven by 210 Cummins motors.

If not...down the road I deal with it.

[Tony Meola]

Carl

That explains every thing. Just don't mix fluids. LOL

[Carl]

Carl

That explains every thing. Just don't mix fluids. LOL

Now you tell me...

But if mixed...will the stuff turn pink bubbly like a Nestle Strawberry Quick shake?
Guess I should give it a try and find out.
I'd be happier knowing it was the mixed fluids then having water in the gearcase.

What's odd is the guys that went to check out the motors for me, told me the gears had straight oil in them. They ran motors and shifted the trans.
When I checked fluid the stuff was gear oil in color.
After running them in boat I had a strawberry shake. I guess the couple shifts done at the checkout didn't disturb the fluid. I would have thought neutral would still have fluid flowing.

Odd...I'll look for some ATF and gear oil later, give a mix and see.
Maybe bring home and put in a blender to piss the wife off....