single lever controlls

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 16th, '07, 21:55

i just splash the phoenix and had a terrible day playing with the control cables.i have the solo 2 single lever throttle/shift system.i installed 33c cables and the results are either not enough travel to pull the cummins throttle to wot. or no reverse in the gears due to lack of travel in the cables.check the cables there are no sharp raduis,eye end is flat side down,the cable clamps have the proper bottom plate and indent plate at both end with perfect allignment.i am not sure if i must use ball bearing cables is it madatory?? i have follow RG. ROLLINS to the tee does anybody have experiance with this system.------------help

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Jun 16th, '07, 22:16

i have the same controls on my 31.it's not necessary to use the ballbearing cables.i used the teleflex suprem cables and they work fine.the controls are very touchie ...i probably need to tighten up on the tension a lil.but when i hooked up my cables it will not let you have any throttle until it's totaly in gear.it took some fine tunning doing it ,the cable end up on the bridge had to be screwed all the way in and adjusted on the motor end,not to shure if this helped or not ...
phil

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 17th, '07, 09:11

phil i did not start adjusting by first screwing the plastic tab at the end of the 33c supreme cable all the way in.i will start over today and do that first.at least you answer the big question that is you (can) use the 33c supreme cables.right now it would be damm near impossible to install new cables up the pillars on port and starboard,or for that matter remove the old now that they interwined with radar,gps,etc.

thereheis · Post by **thereheis** » Jun 17th, '07, 10:52

if you have a old control cable thts not any good cut one end pull the wire out and use it for a pull snake.it should find a opening in the pilaster .my pilasters are all glassed in an full of wires.but i had to run another wire for auto pilot and had no prob. hope it helps....

phil

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/ ... 0_3717.jpg

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 17th, '07, 19:58

these 33supremes are brand new that is why i was hesitant on replacing them with ball bearing type.captain patrick i know you play around with this setup on the fortuna 31 you built do you have any tips on the adjustment or set up.did you or bruce actually remove the sideplates is there a adjustment inside??

scot · Post by **scot** » Jun 17th, '07, 20:12

On the subject of controls, what's the best set up for dual helms with an older mechanical diesel? Are any of the new "smart" single cable gauge packages avaible for mechanical diesels?

What's out there for throttle & shift?....without using the old twin cable + combiner hardware.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 17th, '07, 22:23

Bob,
You can use those controls with morse 33 and 33c cables. When Pat installed them on buddy boy, it took me over two days to get everything to work right and then I couldn't get enough tension out of them to counter act the return spring on the injection pump and had to use cable breaks.

I don't remember what procedures I used to get them to work. IIRC, it was trial and error and dumb luck.

I'm up in Atlantic Beach to work on Island Girl. Tommy said Jim wants me to glance over Buddy Boy. I'll go by and stare at the controls to try and remember the setup.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 18th, '07, 07:15

bruce thanks for getting back to me .the morse 33c cables are very smooth if you take them off the linkage.i have try every trick ,i even put 2shift and 1 thorttle down the starboard pilaster so there would be no 180 degree turn on the port zf gears. both shift cables pull for foward with a totally straight cable right thru the cockpit floor supports with a gentle bend up the pilasters.i have the same problem as buddy boy the port injection pump linkgage will not return to idle (625 rpm) and ends up at 1000rpm. well i guess i will await your obsevation of buddy boy before i can take the phoenix out -------------btw. what cable break did you use??

keysdisease · Post by **keysdisease** » Jun 18th, '07, 07:27

The travel on the 33c and 33c Supreme and the Teleflex 3300 and Teleflex 3300 Extreme are all 3", and for that matter just about all "small' boat control cables. Thats what the second 3 in the part number means.

FYI :-D

Steve Moyer, Ft. Lauderdale

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jun 18th, '07, 08:15

Bob are you set on the inner most mounting point on the engines and gears and the out most point on the controls? This gives the most travel available.
Next set the gear up only.........
Center the travel by measuring forward and reverse cable movement before hookin it up to the gear.
One side will invariably go into gear further then the other. Use the adjustment on the cable end to help fine tune the gear engaugement.

When you go to the engine check for full throw before hooking the cable to the engine, use the inner most connection on the injection pump. You should always be able to come back to idle, you can adjust this with the adjustment on the cable end as well. Bruce is talking about throttle creep from the return spring while at cruising rpm's.

Good Luck

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 19th, '07, 06:45

jp i set up the gears first and the cables had to be shorten on both end the thorttles are another story.with both ends out to the max the engines reach 2800rpm but they will idle at 625.that is the total cable throw and if you remove linkage engines roar to 3100rpm.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Jun 19th, '07, 07:14

If you can move the cable inwards towards the Pivot Points you are in essence extending the cable throw.
I am not familiar with your setup, but I can make this adjustment at the shifter and on Engine/Gearbox.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 19th, '07, 08:04

Bob,
Cable breaks were morse. I don't like them cause if you squeeze to hard you can ruin the cables, but nothing else worked well.

JK · Post by JK » Jun 29th, '07, 09:00

My Solo II are not quite right either this season. Feels like I run out of cable at 2500rpm yet have plenty of distance to move the throttle. Idle is set correctly, is there a way to adjust the length of the cable, I am guesing under the controls?

--JK

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jun 29th, '07, 22:48

jk i had to make many changes to make a more practical setup.i started back in feb. utilizing every performance trick.i spent hours fitting a nascar break cooling duct to force cold air to the air cleaner,a huge fuel cooler and all the weight i could shift to the aft side of the main bulkhead.the bottom is perfect and faired structs,fiberglass shaftlogs,ss rudders even square lifting strakes.with 21"x 27"pitch full cup and thin out from the middle to the edge of the blades.the 2006 cummins 330 hp pushed a very light boat (all contruction built with azak).no engine hatches or cockpit floor.i went 38plus with the engines to the pins.
what a disaster with both engines at idle the slowest she went was 12knots, could not dock the boat in this tight marina.i removed the custom air duct,use the stock cooler and went all the way down to a 20"x23" 4 blade full cup.with 230 gallons of fuel i was able to get the boat down to 5.6knots at idle .the single lever controls with about 4 theads on the ball connection at the engines limit me to 2850 and 625rpm at idle the engines will easily go the pins (3050 rpm) fully loaded but i don`t have enough travel and would never run them that high.i played around with every connection possible and ended up with the shift all the way tighten and the thorttles out to the max.i have 6 sets of holes in the cable bracket on the engines!!!!! i made a custom bracket at the solo controls to get the cable to the last 1/64". i install return springs on the engine to make sure the lever come back to the idle stops because there is no play what so ever.i wish i could help you this is many hours of trial and error.i cruse at 29.8 knots at 2450 good enough i will leave it alone.-----------bob

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jun 30th, '07, 21:07

After looking at Buddy Boy I still couldn't remember what was done to correct all the problems I had with them.

I'm comming up to Montauk Aug 2 to the 6th. I will have a rental car out of Phila and am picking up Pat at JFK to head up.

If your on the way I can stop and take a look and maybe help you out.

Bruce

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 1st, '07, 19:57

bruce i will try my best to bring the phoenix to montauk .thank you for the offer you are a real help to all of us.today i observed the cable connection frame of the solo 2.the shift cable is exactly in line with the shift cam but the thorttle lever is on a acute angle from where the cable backing plate and the cable indent attached to the solo frame.i machined a 9/16" alluminum block and drill and tap to accept the cable,now the thorttle cables are in perfect alligment.the thorttles are smooth as silk but the engines will not exceed 2850rpm in neutral,it does not matter now but if i "bump" the props up a inch or two i would need more thorttle throw on the engines to bring me to my 2800rpm max rpm for these engines and a guide to know when you have reach the over prop point.right now at the max of the cable throw i am about 3/4 wot of the engine.i am using 20x23 and idle speed is 5.6knots and one engine about 4.2. still to fast for trolling for rockfish.the go news is you have no idea you are on 1 engine with these rudders perfectly straight with out touching the wheel.next year trolling valves or two speed trans i know cabo experimented with this a few years back.i don`t know why they drop it cost or they don`t work out??

JP Dalik · Post by **JP Dalik** » Jul 1st, '07, 20:27

Bob
3 blades @ 20x25 with #5 cup. 3.2 kts on 1 engine. Troll spoons and rigs just fine. (Yah just gotta know how to bend the spoon) Ask my daughter 6 years old with a 38 pounder under her belt on Friday.
At 2860 with the down angle struts 32 kts. Run all day at 28kts @ 2500. If your running 12 degree struts you could be faster.
New props aren't cheaper then trolling valves but might be less effort than screwing with those damn push pull cables.
If your gettin over 2850 they ain't stock 330hp.
You been messin with your fuel pump?
If so we need to talk I'd like another 200 rpm,,,,,, as long as the cooling package can handle it.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 1st, '07, 21:33

well jp i stand corrected i though you had to troll at 2.8 max i envy your 6 year old dauther i am lucky if i could get a 18lbs on a white spoon,silver spoon or green in addition to a unbrellar rig.
you have cpl-970 actually by todays standards are really 300hp.i have 2006 330hp.when my engines were on the dyno they put out 314hp at 2790rpm.the room temp was 70degrees and the incoming water cooler temp at 65.ok here goes with my terrible spelling; asumming you have 1/2"feed and 7/16" return fuel ------------absolutly no rookie barb fittings and shit clamps.must be brass cg blue(fc-234-10) hoses!ok now you have fuel second step you want the coldest fuel you can get into those engines.in n.j you can expect something like 65degree water that is what you want your fuel at by way of a inline fuel cooler.cheap and easy to do.
by far the most inportant is air,lets go back to design the bertram was out fitted with two scoops on the gunnel one facing foward and one aft if the bert was a oringinal diesel-totally useless,total stupidity.ok lets consider the options abertram in forward cruise has a stion wagon effect air comes over the transom and back to the cockpit midway.air accerates around the pilasters and drops to the cockpit floor meeting the air from the trasom- large amound of turbulance right at the trailling edge of the engine hatch and wings.this is the coolerst and most inportant cleanest air as opposed to salt ladden with moisture that would be available with side vents.
this being said here we go step one cut a D shape hole from the top of the gunnel to the floor board straight side to the outside next in the mid seventies chevy small block use a poly cover for a inspection cover on the flywheel housing.buy it looks like a big clam shell with a convienant flange on the perrimeter this will fasten to the inside of the engine compartment on the "D" this will direct that cool air to the air cleaner i don`t care what you do if the engine air a the top of the hatch is 120degrees that is what is going into the air cleaner that engine will be a slug! of course you must buy a hp air cleaner .the second part gets tricky you have to drill and install a 1/2 pvc fitting at the bottom of your chevy inspection cover to bleed off any moisture.no you have to install ductwork from the shell output to the aircleaner.easily done with alluminum flex ductwork like the type on race cars to the carbs.if you want to test this before hand remove the engine hatches and take the boat to wot listen to those engines roar this will be the same.---------btw i have 12degree structs and 20x 23 4blade full cup.next subject fuel pump-out

wmachovina · Post by **wmachovina** » Jul 2nd, '07, 07:47

Bob , I'm new here redoing a 73 SF to a FBC. Gas engines are relatvely new and my use does not dictate diesel. I'm cleaning up the gunnels (scoops) and your air intake mods sound good, yet a little confusing. A little more detail or a phone call would be a great thing. Thanks, Bill 772-240-6146

Raybo Marine NY · Post by **Raybo Marine NY** » Jul 2nd, '07, 11:21

Bob- if you want to drag race a big block chevy with its air cleaner sitting atop the engine sucking in all that hot air- im sure I can set something up :-D

JK · Post by JK » Jul 2nd, '07, 19:59

PITA these controls are. Spin 3100+ by disengaging the cable and moving the throttle by hand, then if you advance the cable the motion exceeds the throttle distance yet if you hook up the cable to the throttle it's all I can do to get 2800 out of the engines while at the dock.

--JK

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 2nd, '07, 20:38

Bob,
I think your trying to reinvent the wheel. Good designed side vents aren't a problem at all.

The air is no more humid or salt laden pulling from the side vents, good ones, than the gunnel.

But noise is much more present anytime the engine is open to the cockpit.

Every boat I've repowered is tested with engine boxes and decks in and out.

Every boat performed the same opened or closed.

There is no more "ram air" in NASCAR type cars and hasn't been in a while. The air is brought in at the base of the windshield to keep the openings in the front of the car to a minimum for maximum down force.

In most qualifying runs at tracks other than super speedways, they almost tape up the whole opening for the radiator for maximum downforce. After two laps the cars start to over heat.

They try and prevent air from comming under the front nose up into the engine compartment. This creates lift on the car and lessens the down force.

If you notice the front valence on the new cars, they almost drag the ground.

While an engine does benefit from cooler air its not a concern on properly vented boats as boats don't have to worry about restrictive air intake from less front openings.

Fuel coolers are much more important.

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 3rd, '07, 17:00

here is the cutout step 1

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 3rd, '07, 17:03

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 3rd, '07, 17:20

can get side dorade box in this installation.and starboard has the holding tank in same place

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Jul 3rd, '07, 17:43

bruce i belive the nazi`s were the first to reinvent the "wheel".the me109 had a "D" intake and later the american p51 mustang had the d intake under the plane now the present day f-16 has it---------if the shoe fits wear it.perhaps i should not use the words ram air it is slang meaning forced air made famous by smokey yunick in his discribtion to the public concerning the 1967 chevelle (daytona car)same as present day nascar,pontiac jump in and used the words ram air to describe air intake from the headlite area,then ramjet etc.the picture you show is old hat 1967 corvette big block had it and in 1970 chevelle gave it the words "cowl induction"that was 37 years ago noting really changed.my point was to take the same turbulant air (at the bottom of the engine hatch cover)and put it to use sort of a poor mans cowl induction as you can see not everybody can use a side vent and dorade box the generator is 1" from the outside hull.
the 1970 chevelle inspection cover can be covered with sound deadening and closes off the engine room noise the is a 10"wall extending from the wing and the cockpit side cover end 3" from the floor,a toe kick you might call it this cut any noise if that your concernthe air comes in all along the cockpit floor and accelerates if you don`t need the air more power to you.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Jul 3rd, '07, 21:03

Bob

I am just starting my project and I would like to stay away from the Dorado box if possible. Would you have any pictures you could post with the Inspection cover in place? Did you need to redirect the air past the cover with any type of hose? While I am old enough to know what you are referring too, for the life of me I can not remember what they look like. Thanks Tony Meola.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Jul 4th, '07, 14:12

Bob,
That picture is a 2005 of the #25 Hendrick motorsports taken in the cup garage by me. It is present day.

I can see by your install, the side vents won't go. Your install looks very good and I'm sure you'll work out the air intake.

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