Wiring Schematic Software

[Stephan]

Friends-
I am thinking that rather than risk personal reflection or spiritual enlightenment in this time of confinement, I could focus on making a wiring schematic.
I have reviewed EDrawSoft (https://www.edrawsoft.com/electrical.html), PC|Schematic (http://www.pcschematic.com) and Dia Diagram Editor (https://sourceforge.net/projects/dia-installer/).
My expectations are that the software be free or close to it and suitable for use by a 210 lb. ape. Requirements that I learn German or appropriately use a protractor are insurmountable prerequisites.
If any of you have experience or warnings I would very much appreciate your guidance.
Yours at an appropriate distance,
Stephan

[Tony Meola]

I always thought about a program but figured it was more trouble than it was worth. The 31 is not that big that you can't draw it out neatly yourself. I am sure that the any free programs will just not cut it.

[Bruce]

There are a number of freeware programs, low cost programs and even draw programs that contain electrical symbols.

Some I've used were simple, others required more time than I was willing to spend on it. If your doing it for yourself your time is for you. If you do it for a client you don't want to do a 2500 job and them charge 5k for a schematic by the time you draw it.

I just got done a 69 Chevelle LS3 convertible custom with no visible switches or knobs on the custom dash. All controls are low voltage switches in a center console pop up door. This required two dozen or so relays for everything plus keyless start, remote start and alarm.

When I got done wiring it the owner and the owner of the shop I work with commented, if you die Bruce I'm screwed. No one will be able to figure it out.

I smiled and handed them a electrical schematic I drew by hand on a letter head paper 2 days before at lunch.

Sometimes its just easier.

[Stephan]

Thank you Gentlemen-
I am blowing up a line drawing of a B31 and getting out my ruler and colored pens.
Regards,
Stephan

[Carl]

CAD drawings are great once you learn to think like the program requires you think.

Otherwise the learning curve to do a 5 minutes hand drawing can take the better part of a day.

[ktm_2000]

Do you have Visio? I have the pro version for work and it has a lot of electronic symbols.

I thought of going through and doing a diagram but Carl's point of view of too much time for what it is worth kicked in

[CamB25]

I went through a similar thought process before I grabbed a simple pencil. The boat is really a collection of interconnected "black boxes" with intermediate terminations. I didn't see a need to draw the wiring at all, just the terminations and any devices along the way like switches and fuses. I started a 3 ring binder where each page represents a sub system on the boat - bow thruster, house/start battery, Accessory feeds, courtesy lights, helm switches, etc. All the "goes into", and "goes outa" for each subsystem are detailed on a single page and you can follow the wiring by flipping to the page references, i.e. house/start battery page will take you to the accessory feed page, to the helm switch page, to the terminal distribution page, and eventually to the device at the end of the circuit page (horn, courtesy lights, jack plate, etc). It's a red-lined mess right now. I need to spend some time cleaning it up to create the as-built version and make a copy to keep on the boat.

[Bruce]

Circuit Design Tools & Calculators | Design Center | Analog Devices
https://www.analog.com/en/design-center ... ators.html

[ktm_2000]

Since I've got nothing but time lately, I decided to draw out a plan for what I will be doing on my boat in Visio. To keep things simple, I only drew out the positive side of the circuits and only labeled the wire size


What do you think, what am I missing? am I grossly off on my wire size estimate?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vNQEJ79NxMpitmay8

I just updated with some items I forgot about, trim tabs, fuel tank sender, Simrad has separate power to radar dome.

[CamB25]

Matt - a couple of thoughts/questions:
- Why so many batteries?
- 3 switches in three locations seems like a PITA. I don't understand the need for the main power switch aft.
- I found it easier and cheaper to standardize on wire sizes for accessory loads. 14 ga. seemed to cover lights, gages, etc.
- where's your bow thruster? Mine is 100% fun!
- you may want to draw in your terminal strips
- I don't understand the "#6 to relay trigger separate" for the hydraulic bracket. The up/down switch is on the helm and commands the relay on the hydraulic pump. The Bob's plates have a 5 amp fuse in line with the controls. Power feed is separate. I keep blowing power fuses - 30 and then 40 amp fuses. I called Bob's and they said the pump can draw up to 80 - 100 amps on the stops. Said "most guys just wire it straight to the battery". Of course the power wires out of the pump are #10, so I assumed it was 30 amps (silly me!) I think I will be re-rigging that part. I'm not comfortable with an un-fused hot wire on the batteries (except the outboard) and I'm not OK with running 10 ga more than a foot or so if it needs to carry 80 amps, even for a short time. So...work in progress. The jackplate has been good for running over shoals- with the low water alarms going off all around me - but doesn't do much for trim magic. If your are not running in shallow water, consider a fixed bracket.
- bilge pumps/crash pumps should be 10 gage brown. I wired my bilge pumps to be hot all the time through a 24 hr circuit. on/off switch on helm for manual control. You are showing yours switched, so I assume your on a trailer.
- How are you charging your house batteries?

You are reminding me that I left my electrical binder in NC...I was supposed to clean that up this week.

[ktm_2000]

Cam,

When I had 2 I/Os, I had 2 group 24 starting and 1 group 27 house and I regularly ran the house battery down pretty bad, I drift fish with live macs and tend to be in the fog a lot so I'm running, FF, Radio, Radar, GPS, Livewell pump, continuously. the Radar and Livewell pump seem to draw more juice than the others so I am going somewhat overkill on this one. I probably could get away with a single group 24 starting but I'm not backing off the big house capacity.

On the switches, the middle one in the battery compartment will stay on all the time, I will shut off the engine and house load when I leave the boat. I trailer and am making sure that my bilge doesn't get water so I am not worried about bilge pumps being live constantly.

as for the Bracket, I drew the larger cables from the hydraulic pump going direct to the main battery switch the engine starter is connected to so I shouldn't have any issue there, the smaller line which triggers the relay from the console switch will be lower capacity 16/2 cable.

I've got a similar issue with my air horn requiring heavier cable to the horn pump relay.

I've updated the diagram, my buddy caught that I missed fuel tank sender, trim tabs, and Simrad requiring a separate power feed to Radar Dome.

[ktm_2000]

to more of your questions,

With the twin non-counter rotating I/Os I could only spin to starboard on a dime, I'll regret not having the bow thruster but in the past I've had a single engine boat so it shouldn't be too bad backing down.

As for Charging, I will get a multi-bank charger just for the 2 house batteries, the boat will parked right next to the house so I will put in a 110v plug which will only power the battery charger and run an extension cord from the house. I don't ever expect to run 110v on the water and won't put in precautions to do so.

As to terminal strips, I will use them but I don't want to go crazy trying to draw them all on the diagram, same reason I didn't draw the negative side of the main battery circuit.

[Stephan]

Matt-
Your VHFs are unlikely to be transmitting at the same time and perhaps you have very short runs but - Garmin specified 18 AWG for my VHF 200 model. Two of them I believe would require 15 AWG. I have been using a calculator at https://www.wirebarn.com/Combined-Wire- ... ep_42.html
Is the combined battery switch also a VSR?
Nice work.
Stephan

[ktm_2000]

Stephen

Thank you for the info, I was guessing on the VHF and didn't consider 2 of them together raising the load to requiring up-sizing.

I will be using the ACR to do the combining of the batteries.

One item I didn't consider is a way to power up the magic button - aka electric reels for snapping wire. My buddy has a set and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread when it comes to jigging up Stripers. It makes wire line truly enjoyable. I will put a pair of 12v accessory plugs one under each gunnel in front of the front rod-holders, maybe someday I will buy a set of reels for myself.

[Tony Meola]

Matt

You should mark the color of the wire you used when running the circuits. It will make it easier for someone to trace the appropriate circuit.

[ktm_2000]

Good idea Tony,

What is the best method? label maker + some clear shrinkwrap?

[Stephan]

Matt-
I found the label/clear heat shrink worked on larger wires like battery cable but I could not find clear heat shrink for small diameter wire.
I purchased a DYMO 4200 label maker (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005M ... UTF8&psc=1) which prints on heat shrink tubing (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BP ... UTF8&psc=1)
Best,
Stephan

[Tony Meola]

I have a P Touch that makes the laminated labels.

You should look at the wiring color chart. Here is one to take a look at. You can buy the colored wire from several on-line sources. If you do not use different colored wire, then make sure you label each wire. I would label it at the starting point and at the end point.

https://www.cpperformance.com/t-boat_wiring_colors.aspx

[Tony Meola]

One other thing, if you shop around on line, you will be able to find wire at a much more reasonable cost vs West Marine or a local store.

[Carl]

I have a P Touch that makes the laminated labels.

You should look at the wiring color chart. Here is one to take a look at. You can buy the colored wire from several on-line sources. If you do not use different colored wire, then make sure you label each wire. I would label it at the starting point and at the end point.

https://www.cpperformance.com/t-boat_wiring_colors.aspx

Its a thing of beauty when all color coded like that...but can a bank breaker if you need to buy a roll of each.

Wondering if they sell by the foot?

[ktm_2000]

Tony,

I have no affiliation with this vendor but have bought several 100' spools 16-2,14-2,12-2, + 25' of 2/0 red and black battery cable from them and they are at least 50% off of west marine's price if not even cheaper. They ship out of NJ and stuff arrives at MA in 2 days.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-100-12-2- ... Swc65eqMUG
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-100-14-2- ... Swtv5eqMUM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Wire-100-16-2- ... SwVjVeqMUE

I've got to track down a label maker and some clear shrink wrap and a bunch of small terminal blocks to join wires on as I do not want to do any butt connectors.
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/blue-sea ... SoQAvD_BwE

Here's a pic of the back bilge area https://photos.app.goo.gl/NL3vVKpxPDagNbUz9
On the starboard side where the 2 hoses come in from fishboxes, I will put in 2 inline valves then a Y going to a macerator pump on the side of the stringer. I don't know if you can see it or not but there is a yellow splotch towards the front which is a pad to bolt down a sea-cock on so my livewell pump will go there, I haven't figured out where the wash-down pump will go as I have not researched how much height it can pull if I put it on the inside of the transom above deck or if I have to keep it in the bilge. On the port side, there are 2 pads, the lower height one will be for 2000 gph primary bilge pump, the second higher one will be for a 3700 GPH crash pump. I was hoping to put junction blocks on the bulkhead and terminate boat wires there, then individual item's wires would run to the junction blocks. That way all I'm doing is crimping on ring connectors and screwing them onto the junction block as long as the item has a long enough set of wires from the manufacturer. Troubleshooting is quite simple as the screws are great points to test with a multi-meter. Yearly maintenance is not bad either, check screw tightness and hit the connections with some white lithium grease.

[CamB25]

Wire is cheap compared to the heat shrink terminals!

What sort of hose are you using for the livewell/wash down? I used a spiral reinforced hose - https://www.westmarine.com/buy/shields- ... _wQAvD_BwE

and I can't get it to seal well. Bought the Shields "white hose" to try

My pump requires installation below the water line. It has two outputs, on for the live well and another for a wash down.

[Joseph Fikentscher]

I used http://www.genuinedealz.com for my wire. Yes you can buy by the foot.

[ktm_2000]

Cam,

It is 1.5" spiral reinforced Spa hose in the lower back corners of my fishbox I have the other end of the hose on a strainer. I'm hoping to keep fish blood and slime contained from the rest of the bilge.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CzcTDC52pJU6sv8KA

I will be using the same hose to supply and drain my livewell. I will have to do a step-up adapter as the output of the livewell pump is 1 1/8"

[Tony Meola]

Depending on the color and the amount needed I have purchased as little as 15 feet and full 100 foot spools. The larger spools are usually in black, red, white, and green. When you re-power you will eat up wire. Trust me.

I have purchased off of the following based on pricing and what was available:

https://www.wiringproducts.com/marine-cable

http://www.ezacdc.com/boat-wiring-produ ... at-wiring/

https://www.delcity.net/

https://www.awcwire.com/producttoc.aspx?id=marine-cable

http://www.genuinedealz.com/marine-wire

https://gregsmarinewiresupply.com/

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/mar ... le-tinned/

[CamB25]

Thanks. I don't see spa hose in the smaller sizes. I need 3/4". The hose I have now seems similar to yours.