What are the chances

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 26th, '20, 17:52

Thank you Bob for checking, haven’t heard from the adjuster yet. If I do need to replace the engines I could live with 210s and would be super happy with the 250/270s. If price isn’t the issue 370s would be a dream, but maybe out of my price range.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 26th, '20, 21:27

Peter

Unless you are going to adjust the shaft angle, the 370's might be overkill.

Trust me the 250/270 Cummins will have you smiling. Once you go above that you are talking about salt water cooled aftercooler which will have to be broken down and cleaned every two to three years. Just another thing to drive you crazy and go wrong. If we were down south using the boat more then I would say worth it, but otherwise keep the maintenance simple.

The 250/270 will give you cruise between 23 and 25 knots.

I know Bob has other thoughts on that, but from what I know of you from your postings and how you use the boat, that might work out best for you. But you have to make the final call.

Tony

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » Mar 27th, '20, 22:54

tony the 370hp is easier to find than 270 hp and would not consider 250 hp version they are pre- storm block days. generally speaking the 370hp. is less money than 270hp IF you could find them. install the 370hp. and only throttle to 2600rpm maximum rpm.with throttle stop.tony not a open check book job!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 28th, '20, 20:46

Bob

I know the 270's have gotten expensive and hard to find. Sometimes you can come up with running take outs that are in good shape. That is what Ray did when Forked River Diesel did his last year.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Mar 31st, '20, 06:27

What’s happening now is the adjuster is not going to the boat yard because of the virus but working with the mechanic to have him slowly break down the engine and send pictures and then wait for instructions on the next step.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » Mar 31st, '20, 21:39

Peter

That might just work in your favor. Too bad the mechanic can't just destroy them for you.

My brother in law used to have a body shop. One day he had a car that he figured was totaled. The adjuster came in and said well you can start repairing it, it is just under a total. My bother in law told the guy to wait a second he walked over and put a hammer through the windshield. The adjuster said Totaled. True story.

Rocky · Post by **Rocky** » Apr 1st, '20, 21:03

Peter,
Hi, so be careful and if not completely ready to go diesel do not landlock your boat like I did. Instead get some fresh gassers in there and continue with your season and enjoy her.
It is a good time to get to know the tech looking over engines he may be wiling to give you options of how you want this to go down. At my work, (Toyota) there have been a few times where owners have stopped by to "steer the adjuster's findings" by having tech condemn certain parts. Our #1 issue seems to be rodents chewing on our soy based wire harnesses and making huge bills!
What I'm trying to say is be absolutely ready (time and financially) before diving into diesel conversion,
Just some food for thought.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Apr 1st, '20, 21:57

Peter,

Surprised there isn't some gelcoat/paint damage to you hull if the engines were left in gear and running. Is there any evidence that they hit the dock hard with some force? Check in the anchor locker. Look for joint separation like you would see if sheetrock joints were compromised. Even if there is no apparent physical damage, sometime a direct blow in the wrong spot could cause abnormal flex. Preloss condition applies to these areas too. You can choose to have a professional fix, fix yourself or not fix at all if it is not safety issue. You could put it towards the diesel kitty. But the reimbursement from the insurance company should be for a professional to repair.

Mark

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Apr 9th, '20, 06:24

Boat yard is shut down, just going to have to forget about this for a while.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » Apr 9th, '20, 10:35

Pete, I'm afraid its going to be one of those years where your stuck in a holding pattern ready to go...

I'm not going to offer a be happy to be alive and not being taken down by this virus story..but another Are you kidding me stories.

So buddy has a good beverage distributorship with a partner. Like many partnerships the relationship becomes strained.
My buddy is the early shift opening shift so he's out the door at 4am so he can beat traffic and find parking for the vehicles...he's in downtown Brooklyn so parking is a premium and they have several trucks. If there's snow and ice...he's the guy to get it cleaned up. Then he gets to deal with whose coming in, whose not coming in, who didn't show...trucks go out and then its who got into a fender bender, who is being ticketed cause for this, being stopped for that.
Then going home its bumper to bumper traffic...he has wanted to sell for quite awhile. His partner has kids in school so he wanted the full income and didn't want to...

Last year that changed when someone made an offer on the business. Months of negotiations and a deal was struck, money in escrow and they submit forms for the liquor license, 10-15 weeks they are told. Buddy knows he wants to go to Vegas to live and starts looking at homes...finds one he and his wife love, make an offer and buy. At 14 weeks the application for the license is kicked back, needs a correction and must be resubmitted.
Liquor Authority does not pickup where they left off its another 10-15 weeks...at 14 weeks my buddy finds someone who can look and see how its progressing and told its now up to 26 weeks to process an application.
So they wait and wait....house here they did not put on the market yet, but did clear most of the stuff out. They have a home in Vegas they go out and see every few weeks...He drove his vette out there months ago thinking they were close....

Monday March 16th the license was approved...two days later the Governor shut down all non-essential businesses, so no lawyers to put the deal through...new to be owners are now getting killed in their other business and may not have the funds when this Pandemic is all said and done. My buddy mostly serves caterers, bars and restaurants...you know the businesses that are closed...So he closed too...

and now they sit home and wait.

So when you say...just going to have to forget about this for awhile.

Laugh and say...it's not so bad.

It will happen in due time.

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » Apr 9th, '20, 14:15

Peter,

I think that many of us are in a similar situation this year.

Early in March I broke my prop puller trying to get my port prop off and decided to have the boat yard finish my stuffing box replacement project. Now with all of the marinas on Long Island closed I suspect that it is unlikely I'll get in the water at all this summer.

The positive side is that this has given me time and a motive to catch up on some maintenance and repairs to my sailboat.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 5th, '20, 17:53

What a mess. Insurance company hasn’t sent the adjuster, he just got some pictures from the yard. They sent me a check for $950 which in the notes says estimate. The yard never game an estimate but based on storage fee of $25 a day they’re already about $500 short. It seems like it’s just impellers, water pump and some hoses so that’s good news. I’ve lost patience with insurance Co at this point. I’ve given them some leeway with not wanting to send an adjuster out to the yard but I’ve now had it.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 5th, '20, 20:54

Peter

Do not cash the check until you talk with the yard. Make sure everyone is on the same page first. Find it hard to believe if they left it running without water and the engines shut themselves down, they had to be pretty dam hot. I would say glowing red.

See what the yard did as you can.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » May 6th, '20, 07:24

Peter,

Agree with Tony on the check...especially if there is any verbiage anywhere that indicates "final". Did you receive a Proof of Loss statement with the check? If not and the check or another attached document doesn't indicate that the settlement is final, the insurance company probably sent out a preliminary based on there own internal estimate. But on a loss that small, I don't see them issuing more than one check. Hopefully, your yard is communicating with you first before communicating with the insurance company. Remember back to pre-loss condition. That includes paint, wires, metal fatigue, etc.

Mark

bob lico · Post by **bob lico** » May 6th, '20, 15:57

i confused here!!!! there is no AUTOMATIC shut down on those engines and they will not shut down by themselves for no water condition which means RUN until seized

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 6th, '20, 19:55

bob lico wrote:i confused here!!!! there is no AUTOMATIC shut down on those engines and they will not shut down by themselves for no water condition which means RUN until seized

If I recall the ignition was left on...doesn't mean the motors were still running. They could have shut to stop alarms from ringing

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 6th, '20, 21:10

Carl

If the gas engines had alarms. Ours never had alarms, just the gauges.

Bob

I think they left them running. Peter will have to tell us.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 7th, '20, 06:27

PeterPalmieri wrote: The ignition switches were left on and the motors were in gear with some throttle. Probably they left it running and the motors eventually stopped running during the night.

They could have nosed it into the slip and shut motors to keep the noise down.

-or motors could have stalled.

-maybe someone hit the battery switch while looking for the seacocks

Could two motors overheat to the point of seizing and then just start up after they cool? Is there anything that causes enough friction or resistance when overheating to stall the motors at a low idle...circulating pump? Did a hose blow? maybe shorted out the ignition...then again On Both Engines?

Did exhaust manifolds or heads crack? maybe they ingested coolant...but that would have been picked up in the oil I'd assume. How burnt did the oil smell?

I lean to nosed it into the dock and shut motors letting it glide in.

Lots of possibilities with lots of guesses...unless we find out both motors seized, culprits fess up, video is found or....

If motors were running that long without water...your exhaust hoses from the dumps should be charred.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 7th, '20, 06:48

I don’t know all the answers. The engines could have been running until they stalled, doesn’t seem they seized. Hose burst on port side but not starboard. They were left in gear with the ignition switches on. Being this was the first start after winterizatio I wouldn’t be surprised if they stalled out.

The mechanic has had his hands tied by the insurance company so I think they’ve had more contact and the mechanic is moving forward.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 7th, '20, 09:44

Peter- Your right, I doubt we'll ever get the answers...but guessing and surmising does get my mind off work for a short period of time.

Assuming you are happy to still have the boat...your really lucky as this could have turned out to be far worse.

If it's only some rubber products and your lost time and aggravation your far ahead of "the what could have beens".

If they took boat and its gone...what are you replacing it with.
If they took boat and it sank or they ran it into something expensive...you have insurance, but oil leaks, pulling it up...repairing another boat on top of your wrecked boat...at some point the insurance company tightens the pocket. Or they look at you...
What if boat was just left drifting and not found by a faithful.

I'm sure you already had the sound in your head of a pair of fresh diesel in her belly purring down the channel. It will happen in time...if not this boat another.

Insurance companies can be really lousy to work with...but if you can get them to see a cost-benefit for them to move your boat project along, be sure to present it.
If you are friendly with your Insurance agent, put some pressure on them to get this moving. Pictures and receipts of damage should be permissible if they can't get their agents to evaluate in a timely manner, I think we already passed that point.
Last is Be That Squeaky Wheel...its unfortunate, but true.

We used to have a record store not too far from us as a kid. Remember those??

Anyway, I wanted an automatic 45RPM adapter that held several records for my turntable...

I asked and looked everywhere I could get on my bicycle...finally, this guy at a record store said no problem, he knew where he could order one for me. I gave a small deposit and he said a week. 7 days later I walk in, it didn't come in, said next delivery is in a couple of days. I came back, not yet so I called before they closed, when I got home from school, stopped by way too often for a couple weeks. Till one day he just stopped what he was doing, got on the phone with the owner of the place he was ordering it from told him he needed the dam thing to go out now by UPS, which at that time was a big whooped dee doo or he wasn't ordering from them anymore. At the time this was THE Record Store...actually it was called Our Record Store...but now getting way off track on my off track story so I don't have to go back outside and work... Funny...guys don't want to come back to work now that they are getting unemployment benefits plus a $600 weekly bonus on top of that....but I digress even further. AND they Call it Unemployment...REALLY, I'm Pretty sure my Governor TOLD me to release several people to reduce the work staff...President told the rest to stay home. Ooops off base even further to the point of hitting the Political section.

ANY HOO00...Next day I show up after school...the guys there waiting for me with my 45 adapters. Hands it to me with a store credit for a couple albums...much more then the deposit I left. He apologized for letting it go so long... Think I was maybe 10 at the time...it was about the first time I think I was taken seriously enough by an adult to get an apology.
So Its 40 years later and I'm dealing with this nice older and somewhat annoying guy I have been doing small odd jobs for. This last project was a real ball buster so I kept putting it off and he called daily about it...
Finally its done, I tell him I'm sorry it took so long and there will be no charge. He laughs telling me he was sorry for being a pain calling daily, but he learned years ago about the squeaky wheel getting oiled. Then he goes into this story about this little kid coming into his Record Store years ago for a record he ordered that just never came in...and he'd stop in and call constantly. I stopped him and told him it wasn't a record, it was an automatic 45rpm record adapter. He gives a yeah right and the mouth opens... I'm not sure who was more taken back.

Karma...what goes around comes around, small world...call it what you like. The squeaky wheel does get oiled.

jackryan · Post by **jackryan** » May 7th, '20, 10:32

Peter,

Sorry to hear about your boat. It may be worth putting a Cellular/GPS tracker on your boat so you can tell where it is at all times. You can even put a GEO Fence around your dock and get a text if the boat moves more than a couple of yards. I installed one of these on my vehicle and it's amazing. You can look at a map online and see where your boat/car is at any time. It also leaves a bread crumb trail to see where the boat has been. There's a $19 monthly subscription fee, but thats cheap insurance. Here's a link to the unit that I use:

https://gotrack.com/product/gotrack-3-wire-monthly/

Here's a battery powered unit with a 3 year battery life:

https://gotrack.com/product/gotrack-ttu ... year-data/

JR

MarkD · Post by **MarkD** » May 7th, '20, 15:27

Great story Carl!!

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » May 7th, '20, 18:13

Carl,

I read your story to my wife who is a retired English teacher. She asked me to read it a second time and was so touched by it that she cried.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 7th, '20, 21:14

Carl

Small world. Pretty funny. But you know what, you both did the right thing. That is just good business.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 8th, '20, 05:59

Great story Carl.

Sorry I haven’t responded sooner or longer. I’m working from home and helping the kids with school work while my wife drives into the city for work.

I just haven’t had time to really be on top of the boat yard or the insurance company. I think I pushed a few buttons to get things moving in the right direction. Haven’t been down to the boat since the day in March we had it towed to the yard.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 9th, '20, 19:32

pschauss wrote:Carl,

I read your story to my wife who is a retired English teacher. She asked me to read it a second time and was so touched by it that she cried.

Thanks for sharing that.
I imagine being a teacher your wife has given many students life lessons they will always carry with them.

Two people from different generations impacting the lives of each other then 40 years later offering those lessons to the other unknowingly is an unbelievable movie line I'd never believe.

What's cool about life is it doesn't have to be believable to be true.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 9th, '20, 20:11

PeterPalmieri wrote:Great story Carl.

Sorry I haven’t responded sooner or longer. I’m working from home and helping the kids with school work while my wife drives into the city for work.

I just haven’t had time to really be on top of the boat yard or the insurance company. I think I pushed a few buttons to get things moving in the right direction. Haven’t been down to the boat since the day in March we had it towed to the yard.

Pete, sorry to highjack your post.

Life has gotten real interesting with this virus. I saw many things holding up my conversion....a pandemic wasn't in my wildest dreams.

Not being on top of getting boat and insurance is quite understandable. All in time

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 13th, '20, 12:37

With the boat was stolen instead of untying it from the boat cleats they took all the lines off the dock and the polls one was missing and one was torn in half. The boat was hauled today and one of the lines was wrapped around the prop in the prop has a nice gouging it

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » May 13th, '20, 13:09

Good, so one engine stalled right at the beginning, probably that one is not cooked!

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 14th, '20, 06:17

https://imgur.com/gallery/nSxvJgV

Props

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 14th, '20, 07:57

Yup, props been tweaked. Although nothing a torch and a big hammer can't fix.
Make sure they check the shaft for straightness.

MarkD · Post by **MarkD** » May 14th, '20, 11:24

Peter:

Looks like a good COVID project for you - cleaning the running gear and slapping on some new zincs!!

In this case, poor seamanship and a bad thief saved an engine!

Mark

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 14th, '20, 21:43

Like Carl said prop can be fixed. Probably saved that engine. Have them look at the transmission also. No telling how fast they were going when that engine came to a stop.

Stephan · Post by **Stephan** » May 15th, '20, 10:32

Maybe the engine was in reverse and not running at too high an RPM at the time it wrapped? - it looks like the trailing part of the blade is what got tweaked from those pictures.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » May 15th, '20, 12:47

Good point Stephan!

So if this happened as they were getting out of Pete’s slip, it stalled right away and saved that motor.
Not being able? to guide the boat on one prop, they abandoned it down the canal...

On second thought, and having grabbed a few ropes, I don't think the prop can cut a rope like this. It leads me to think that the rope snapped (while already around the prop) as the boat was moving in some direction by the thrust of the other prop.

On third thought, if you try to untangle the rope carefully one can find perhaps which direction the prop was turning before it got tangled with the rope.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 15th, '20, 14:47

That port motor with the line wrapped around the prop is also the engine that had the coolant hose burst. The starboard motor is the one I replaced last year, seems unharmed except it was the one that was in gear with the ignition turned on when I found it.

Fluids were all clean but until we get the props back we can’t run the boat and confirm everything is okay.

Tooeez · Post by **Tooeez** » May 15th, '20, 17:51

From the way the line is wrapped it looks like the wheel was in reverse when the line went in. Also, the line is not around anything fixed, like the strut or a cleat, so that shaft should be able to turn with the line in place, so don't assume that the line stopped the engine before damage was done.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 18th, '20, 06:33

A broken line was attached to a cleat still. Not sure if they cut it or maybe the prop cut it

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 25th, '20, 18:44

Back in action and out on the water. Feels good.

pschauss · Post by **pschauss** » May 25th, '20, 22:50

Great news. What repairs did they make.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 26th, '20, 06:16

Great news!

It may not have been what you wished for...but if you got what you wished for you'd still have a good amount of time before the boat hit the water.
Not sure if your a Garth Brookes fan, but gotta love the lyrics...

Sometimes I thank God
For unanswered prayers
Remember when you're talkin'
To the man upstairs
That just because he doesn't answer doesn't mean he don't care
'Cause some of God's greatest gifts
Are unanswered prayers

So git out and catch em up!!

Mark · Post by **Mark** » May 26th, '20, 07:47

Peter,
Great News!! All things considered..haven't missed too much. Put everything through its paces to make sure all is functioning as prior and then enjoy!
Mark

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 26th, '20, 17:12

Didn’t see a bill yet but I think it was just coolant hoses on one engine. Impellers and pumps and the prop. But we will see.

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 26th, '20, 20:47

Peter

Good to hear. You may want to set up some kind of chain and lock set up to one of the cleats to make them think twice next time.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 27th, '20, 06:22

Tony Meola wrote:Peter

Good to hear. You may want to set up some kind of chain and lock set up to one of the cleats to make them think twice next time.

A false sense of Security is all there is.

...a chain to a cleat can be a nice deterrent though. Then again did you see Jaws when Mr toothy takes the weekend roast then takes off with the dock.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » May 27th, '20, 11:18

...or in a case of emergency (fire on a neighbor, wind etc) the guys at the marina just look at your boat unable to move it!

Tony Meola · Post by **Tony Meola** » May 27th, '20, 21:29

Yannis

I've got News for you, any marina I have ever been in, if a boat catch's on fire, no one is in a rush to move the boats around it. They usually run for the hills until the fire department shows up. Plus, these fiberglass boats go up so fast there is just no time.

Carl, yes it might be a false sense of security, but they would not want to take the time to cut the chain.

Next option is to move the battery switch's into the cabin under the bulkhead seat, and turn them off. Then they have to break into the cabin and find the switch's, takes too long, they can not be bothered, or put an extra kill switch in.

I am not a fan of kill switch's but if mine was stolen, I would probably become a fan.

DanielM · Post by **DanielM** » May 27th, '20, 22:17

Peter,

Glad you’re back on the water.

One thing you might look into is throwing a Wyze camera on the boat. They’re dirt cheap. 25-30 bucks or so and drop dead easy to set up. It will give notices on movement or when a person is in the frame. They’re not the greatest but good for a little cheap monitoring. I have them on my fish camp and I like them. Again not a top notch security set up, but a quick and easy view into the boat. Good luck, I doubt you’ll ever have to cross that road again, but it might be nice just to be able to take a quick look on the phone every now and then.

Quick edit - I just snapped to the fact they (Wyze cameras) are WIFI dependent, so maybe not an option in your marina.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » May 28th, '20, 06:44

Not sure I want to give away my security features on a public forum but I definitely have a bat in the back of my truck.

Carl · Post by **Carl** » May 28th, '20, 06:58

Tony Meola wrote: Carl, yes it might be a false sense of security, but they would not want to take the time to cut the chain.

Deterrent almost for sure a chain is. Call me Yoda.

Brings me back to my last marina and the last round of dock boxes. The lock I had didn't fit so I left it without a lock. In the following couple weeks, many of the boxes were broken into...not mine. And what's funny, mine had better stuff in it.

I could argue both sides, a chain is a deterrent and makes a tougher mark.
The chain is an eye catcher...hey, must be something valuable, let's go see.

Could always go with the battery-operated flashing Red light indicating the Alarm is set.