Flybridge Hand Rail Removal/Flybridge Paint Job

[jackryan]

I am prepping my flybridge for a coat of paint and was wondering if anyone has experience removing the hand rail on the side of the flybridge? There are large flat head screws on either end of the hand rail, and a small nut in the middle.

I attempted to unscrew the flat head screws at either end and I was able to get them to turn counter clockwise, but they just keep turning and don't come out. I am hoping that there is not a nut on the back side of the screws and on the back side of the small nut in the middle of the hand rail, because short of removing the headliner in the cabin and accessing from below, there does not appear to be a way to access the back side of the screws. (I'm not even sure this area would be accessible inside of the cabin from below if I did remove the headliner)

I guess the other option would be to mask off the flybridge hand rails and paint around them, but that's going to make the job a lot tougher.

Have any of the faithful attempted to paint their flybridge? I'm completely open to suggestions. I was planning on assisting a professional painter to roll and tip the flybridge. The cost to roll and tip is way less than paying for a spray job.

Thanks for any advice!

JR

[John F.]

As I remember, I had to remove the headliner and they were bolted on. I rolled and tipped my 31. Little foam rollers and foam brushes.

[Carl]

No advice from me sorry...

But please take notes and pics as what to do and not to do as this WILL be on my list of must does...provided of course motors run good, perform well and all that good stuff.
John- I'd love to hear your thoughts advise on the project.

Paint was the first Big thing I wanted to do from before I bought...only 26 years later and aside from waterline it hasn't been touched.
26 years ago the paint job was was 12 years old, I hated the color but was in ok condition. 38 years after paint job the color is still hated and the condition is less than satisfactory.

hmm...for no answer, it's a long post.

[Tony Meola]

Jack

Drop the head liner, you can get at the back side. If you have a stand up head, you will need to take that one down also.

[jackryan]

Guys,

Thanks so much for the replies. Thats not what I wanted to hear, but good to know how to do it. Wish I could just remove a couple of screws and a bolt and be done with it. It's funny, every time I do a project, at some point, I always seem to say in my head "nothing's ever easy." (sometimes I say it over and over)

John, How did your "roll and tip" paint job work out? I have a few questions for you:

1) What brand of paint did you use? I hear that Interlux Perfection was designed for "roll and tip.

2) What grit sand paper did you use and how much of the old paint did you remove? I've been using a random orbit sander with 240 grit, but had to drop all the way down to 80 grit to remove the black accent stripe.

3) Did you prime with "high build" primer? Any other "prep" suggestions?

4) Do you remember the brand of roller you used? Funny enough, I think the brand I've heard people mention before is called "Corona" brand roller.

5) How many coats of paint did you apply? I've heard others say that 3 coats seems to be the magic #

Many Thanks,

JR

[John F.]

Jack-

Try this:

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... nt#p114006

If you have any questions, just ask.

John

[jackryan]

Great stuff John! Thanks for taking the time to document all of that for us. Your details will be very helpful to me.

JR

[PeterPalmieri]

Having to remove the headliner during a project is always a pain in the butt. Walter recommended using a black and decker electric screw driver years ago. I’d add to that having 3 of them and a 6 pack of beer. Invite a couple buddies over who you invite out on the boat regularly. Get them started and then leave it in the garage until the project is complete.

I’ve always thought I could get a canvas guy to come up with a solution that would make it a lot easier to get it up and down simply but haven’t yet followed through.

[John F.]

When I redid Crows Nest, I made new plywood panels for the headliner. Its 3 pieces--one big piece for the port side, one piece for the starboard side, and a smaller piece for the head. I covered the panels in vinyl with a foam backing from Sailrite. I also made the panels so that they fit tight with no gaps so I could eliminate the teak strips. The panels are screwed in place using small stainless screws with finish washers. Long story short--I can take all 3 panels down in about 15 minutes with my little drill driver. This will give you the idea

http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... er#p113282

[pschauss]

My headliner is also in three pieces, one small access panel forward and center and two larger sections, port and starboard side. Dropping one of the large sections is relatively easy. The hard part of the job is holding one of these panels in place while I line up the screw holes which I solved that by using a welding clamp.

The last time I had the port side panel down, I added an access port positioned so that I can fish wires up from the engine room. I plan to do the same on the starboard side the next time I have that panel down.

[Yannis]

I remember having seen a headliner in a 31 made out of a stretched elastic sheet. It was covering the whole cabin in one piece that was secured in place (with nails? pins?) only in its periphery. Kind of a roof trampoline. In the forward part it had a U shaped zip that, when opened, gave access to all the flybridge gauge connections.

[jackryan]

When these boats were designed, there were very few electronics in existence, so there wasn't much thought about making the flybridge area above the cabin easily accessible to run wires. I'm not looking forward to removing the headliner, but I think I'll take Peter's advice and chill some beer down and invite friends to help!

[Stephan]

Beer and friends make everything better,
I have been fortunate that my headliners went back up without too much fuss. What I did notice was that incrementally larger screws had been used over time.
A whole mess of bungs and a 1/4" drill - filled all the old holes and gave a nice tight fit when I reinstalled.
Good luck.
Stephan

[jackryan]

Update on the hand rail and headliner removal. Much to my relief, the painter that is awl gripping my flybridge said that he can work around the hand rails-so I didn't have to remove the headliner. We just taped the hand rails to to keep the paint off when he was rolling the paint on around them.

JR

[Tony Meola]

Jack

Is he roll and tipping the whole topside?

[jackryan]

Hey Tony,

He is actually only rolling, not tipping. Using Awl Grip Stark White. It matches the original color fairly well. I did most of the prep work/taping and am assisting where I can. He pretty much wants me off the boat and watching from a distance while he is doing the actual painting. (said the rocking boat throws him off his game)

He's using a small 4" foam roller that fits behind the hand rail. I taped the back side of the hand rail to keep as much paint off as possible. We're going to put the finish coat on tomorrow. I was surprised to learn that he doesn't tip the paint after rolling it on. It's just a technique he's been using for many years, but I have to say that I feel like it would have a glossier finish if he tipped it. All and all, I think it will turn out very nice, especially because I'll be spending SUBSTANTIALLY less $$ than having it professionally sprayed.

I asked him what his recipe is- He said he uses 2 parts paint, one part converter and one part reducer. He makes it look a lot easier than it probably is to actually do. I'll report back with a description of the final finish. I'm going to try to use some of the left over paint to Awl Grip my dinette table and the area under the trailing edge of the flybridge. I bought a quart of paint and a pint of converter and after 3 coats, we've used about 1/4 of the can of paint. This stuff goes a long way.

JR

[Stephan]

Jack-
One of the secrets from pro painters that I have been told and believe is that there is a difference between white paints/Awlgrip and and the darker pigmented coatings. For some reason (the presence of the pigments?) the whites can be thinned more aggressively and flow out better. I have put many more errors into a white Interlux Perfection job by rolling and tipping rather than just letting it level itself out. The balance of this is that the coats are thin and the job may require an additional coat.
Good luck with the job. I believe one of the benefits of a painter telling me to stand back is that I can know too much about a paint job.
Best,
Stephan

[Carl]

He is actually only rolling, not tipping. Using Awl Grip Stark White.

JR

I just recently watched a UTube Video on this "only rolling" process...so you know, that makes me a bit of an expert!

Kidding of course on the expert part. I was intrigued by the process and I was thinking of buying some paint to give it a try. My boat NEEDS a paint job badly, been 36 or 37 years since it was painted. I never liked the color when prior owner had it applied. Anyway the paint being rolled was "Alexseal" paint and they recommend just rolling it. When I say they its the company, not the painters saying to just roll it...the product was developed to be rolled. From the video I was impressed. Have rolled and tipped interlux "Perfection" I was impressed with the results...I'd say my results, but I suck as a painter and the results were due to the paint, not the painter.

I was looking around on U-Tube to see what was being said about doing the hull in "Perfection", I was thinking of maybe attempting. Only Perfection has some hold up issues and I think touchup ones...This Alexseal is supposed to hold up and touchup great. More research for my project after a project.

[jackryan]

The guy painting my boat said he wants me off the boat because he is concentrating on painting, and afraid he will fall off due to the rocking of the boat as I walk around on it.

Carl, I think I might have watched the same video on Alexseal paint. I watched a "Boatworks Today" video and he compared the results of just rolling vs. rolling and tipping. I agree that the results were better with the panel that he just rolled. I read pretty deep into the comments section and several guys that seemed to know what they were talking about said that Andy mixed the paint and then talked too long before starting to paint the panel that he was rolling and tipping. They also said that he started tipping on the wrong side of the project, I guess you tip the paint you lay down first because it flashes off quickly after its rolled on. I was ready to go get some Alexseal and do it myself. Andy does a great job with his videos.

Here is a link to the video I watched: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... e=emb_logo

My job is looking good. It's definitely not a 10, but looks very good. I think if I want to I could paint my entire hull with 3 or 4 coats with the paint I have left over after painting the flybridge.

JR

[Tony Meola]

You guys are tempting me. My problem is that my bridge has a lot of creating and would probably need to be striped to green glass.

[Yannis]

Im in the same situation but I thought of fake teak instead. I’ve seen a good one that looks like real teak, shouldn’t be that expensive for the fb floor real estate. No care needed afterwards.

[Carl]

JR,

Yes that was the series. I was most impressed with the 1st segment. Andy travels to the facility and is part of a group introduced to the product in a hands on session. I think that gave me the true indicator of what rolled to tipped difference is or could be.

If you watch, In this segment Andy primes both panels differently. I forget but I think one is thinned or he uses a brushing agent and the other did not. While a great idea your not offering the same primercoat to compare rolling to tipping.

Then as you said and I think Andy even comments on it...he was yaking too long before he started the tipped panel and the paint was hanging up a bit when rolled on. He stops adds more agent to thin and continues. I think that is where you can kinda see some tipping marks.

What I liked...the less I need to fiddle and retouch, the better. When tipping my side panels if I didn't try to make something better by re-touching a good stroke I thought I could do better I'd have been better off.

Ah- your painter is painting the boat In The Water...makes sense your moving could throw him off some. Hope he knows water moves too and boats can go by. But I get having someone aboard can be more abrupt...and continuous.

A ten paint job I assume will add a few expensive zeros to the cost. I'd rather have a seven I can afford and enjoy, an 8 would be nicer.




https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aO2u2RShmZs

[jackryan]

Tony,

My bridge had a black accent stripe painted near the top of the bridge. It took one hell of an effort to get that black paint off of the bridge, and in areas, I ended up going through to the green glass. The rest of the bridge, was in pretty good shape for the most part, just some gouges and a few holes to fill. I used Total Fair from Jamestown Distributors. Great stuff and easy to work with.

The guy painting my boat starts out with what he calls a sacrificial coat of paint to show areas that need attention. The accent stripe area looked really bad after the sacrificial coat of paint. You could see lots of gouges and it was not "fair" at all. He ended up putting several coats of fairing compound over the whole area and we did a lot of sanding to get it fair. I would worry that you would have to fair your entire bridge if you took it down to green glass--and that would be a real job. If you can just repair gouges and holes with fairing compound and sand the rest of the bridge, it might be easier than taking the whole thing down to green glass.

Carl,

Thanks for the link to Andy's earlier video on roll and tip painting. I hadn't seen that one. You're right, he didn't thin the primer on the panel that he rolled and tipped. The primer on that panel didn't look quite as nice as the thinned primer on the panel that he used to demo "only rolling" the paint on.

I think my paint job will end up between a 7 and 8, and like you said, I knocked a few zeros off of the price.It will look great from 15 feet, but if you get right next to it, you'll see some imperfections.

We are painting my boat in a covered slip in the back corner of a protected marina, so not much traffic/boat wakes back there.

On a side note, I went out yesterday morning to sand the flybridge to prep it for the final coat. The last step after sanding was to wash the bridge down with water to remove the dust. I was using a brush that connects to a hose so that water is flowing through the brush. What I didn't realize is that my son had used the hose to wash the cars and there was still some soap in the reservoir in the head of the brush. As I stepped from the dock to the cockpit gunnel, some soapy water sprayed on the gunnel from the brush. It was low tide and about a 3 foot step down to the gunnel--when my foot hit the gunnel it was a slick as ice. I went flying and hit the cockpit with a loud thud.

There was a guy working about 3 slips down that heard the thud and checked to make sure I had survived. What a klutz. I had a large bathroom tile propped up along the transom (I used this to mix the fairing compound on) that cut into the top of my scalp. I hit the ice chest sitting in my cockpit with my thigh and that caused a hematoma the size of an ostrich egg on my thigh. The thigh hurts pretty good today, but I'm able to hobble around. It could have ended a lot worse if I had hit the tile with my face or had a more direct blow to the head. Could have ended tragically if I had fallen the other direction into the water, I may have hit my head on the concrete dock and gotten knocked out on the way down (and there was a 4-5 foot long alligator sitting in the water right where I fell) My painter had good advice after the fact--always have one hand for you and one for the boat.

JR

[Tony Meola]

Jack

Sorry to hear abouff the fall. I bet they gator was thinking chow time.

Unfortunately I am getting a lot of order cracks on the front of the bridge. I don't think there is anyway to get around going down to green glass.

[jackryan]

Thanks Tony,

I'll definitely be more careful in the future. I normally have my boat up out of the water at a dry stack facility. I walk all over the boat when it's out of the water. A fall to the ground from up there would be really bad. I'm going to be way more careful now.

I have a video that I shot of the gator right before I fell. He wasn't too big, but I'm sure he would have enjoyed snacking on my toes and fingers.

JR

[Joseph Fikentscher]

I rolled without tipping on my Bridge. Came out great. Left it one coat short since I will be doing the entire top area soon and I can make the last coat look seamless.

[jackryan]

I took the boat out into the sunlight yesterday for the first time since painting, and I gotta say, I'm impressed with the finish. It looks great. Looks very glossy and you really have to look close to see the imperfections.

[Carl]

Jack-

Your a lucky man!!

Wow...that could have ended so much worse. It is a lesson though about one hand for you and one for the boat, its always when your not expecting something to happen that it does.

About the video, I wish he had done a straight-up comparison..but I was happy to have watched it as the results really made me rethink doing it myself. I love the finish on the dingies at the beginning. If I could get close to that and have a tough surface that is repairable...that's what I have been looking for. Perfection falls a little short in that area I believe...been a while since I looked at the write ups.

I think I could be very happy with a 7 or 8 if I did myself.


Tony- I wonder if you could just sand aways the crack, crazed areas then fill and fair those. I'd think it's easier to have a good surface to build up to then fair and sand as a whole. Could just be my inexperience talking though...

[Tony Meola]

Carl

I thought about that, but think about how a pane of tempered glass spider cracks when hit.

[Carl]

Oh...lots and lots of little cracks, gotcha.

That is something to look into in my off time. Best ways to prep those areas before painting. I know grinding or peeling off all the cracked surface removes the chance of the cracks bleeding through in the future...but is the extra work worth it?? I have a buddy that believes the more work, time, and money he puts into a project the better the outcome. Sometimes he's right, sometimes a little more thought goes further.

[Yannis]

Carl,

I thought many times to paint my boat.
It is beaten by time, the elements and my own way of treating things.
It would look much better in a new shiny “costume” ...

But then, it would have lost all this patina of time.
It would somehow resemble those bubble like boats we see around so often.
But the WORST thing of all is that I would be forced to use it in a different manner. One that would have me get up and go place that speargun gently into its slot under the gunnel, as opposed to just throw it out there on deck and watch it slide to its destination. And this latter I just can’t give up. I’m already a slave of all boat mechanicals and security considerations because I have to, for my own safety and that of others, as well as my (sort of) guarantee that I’ll have a pleasant time with less hassles.
But become a slave for the looks of it, or what other people might think of how my boat should look like...never.
That’s also why I don't paint the hull dark blue which I love. Because I would have to wax and shine all my life. Never!

[Tony Meola]

Carl

I had a guy redo my deck non skid. Did a great job. Talked to him about painting the boat. He had a sail boat he was doing. He was experimenting giving the boat a coat of Interprotect before painting. But from what I understand the stress cracks still showed up after a while.

It is a shame because the Hull itself only has one stress crack in the transom, easy fix and one up front from a ding. Otherwise the hull is really clean, and has a great shine when waxed. No chalking.

[jackryan]

Tony,

How did your guy go about redoing the decks with non-skid? I started a post a while back about that and have not decided which way to go. Several guys recommended Kiwi Grip. The guy that painted my boat with Awl Grip scoffed at Kiwi Grip and said that I should go with a 2 part paint with nonskid mixed in (probably because that's what he does.) I'm still not sure how to proceed. My deck paint and non skid are functionally fine, just don't look as good as I would like.

JR

[Carl]

Tony,
The guy that painted my boat with Awl Grip scoffed at Kiwi Grip and said that I should go with a 2 part paint with nonskid mixed in (probably because that's what he does.) I'm still not sure how to proceed.
JR

I'm sure 2 part paint with non-skid mixed in would be perfect (but doesn't that make it a 3 part paint?). I'm also fairly sure I'd apply it less than perfect. But if I was paying to have done, I'd go with the recommendation of the painter and be happy. Also have a strong feeling as you said your painter is partial to what he does. And one more for the other side to keep the flip flops floping equal as nobody like uneven waffles...I need to do my deck over again, after 12 years of mostly being non covered the Kiwi paint did need a refresher...after installing two motors, fiberglass work, grinding, cutting, painting, I have little choice but to redo. I am buying the Kiwi stuff again.

Jack, when in doubt, flip a coin, neither answer is wrong and both would make you happy.

I'm feeling very much like a politician this morning. oh..that sent shivers down my spine! and not in a good way

Carl
Talked to him about painting the boat. He had a sail boat he was doing. He was experimenting giving the boat a coat of Interprotect before painting. But from what I understand the stress cracks still showed up after a while.

I was reading up on that last night and that seems to be the way that is recommended, two coats of an epoxy sealer or something then paint. I'd hate to do all that work and see the stress cracks show up again. I'd really get flipping pissed if I paid good money for a paint job and they showed up again.

Carl,
But become a slave for the looks of it, or what other people might think of how my boat should look like...never.
That’s also why I don't paint the hull dark blue which I love. Because I would have to wax and shine all my life. Never!

We used to go offshore wit dads boat all the time, 5 gallon buckets of chum brought out on the deck and could be put anywhere, rip the top off and start ladling. If not tied the bucket slid across the deck. dad wasn't thrilled about that...but not a big deal. Beach days we were always barefoot, cooler slid in under the rear transom, pulled out to open for drinks.
Dad spent the entire Winter and a good portion of the Spring season laying down a teak deck, came out gorgeous. Boy did I want that on my boat one day...when I got a boat. We were sharking and the bucket of chum he was about to put overboard slid across the deck scratching as it went....I thought he was going to cry. It was at that moment I knew I never wanted a teak deck. That was reaffirmed by scorched feet on hot beach days. Cooler no longer stayed on the deck for drinks...had to go up on the motor boxes...but slid occasionally. Had to be removed to get something inside the box, had to be moved to check motor. Special care and upkeep...Looks great, too much work.

That said, I wouldn't be a slave to the looks. If I can't have fun with it, I don't need it. If dark blue made me happy, I'd paint dark blue and be fine if it was dirty from time to time. I'd also enjoy cleaning it as It would make ME happy.

When I had my vette I wanted it painted Flash Red with Satin Black side pipes. You know how many people told me no, it's not the cars stock color, side pipes are old fashioned. For awhile I listened...then realized who gives a rats tushy what they think, its my car and I'll do what I want. Obviously that was BW time Before Wife, although we were dating and her opinion was, its your car, your money.

[Yannis]

Haha, if I’m to paint and have the cooler go back and forth and make scratch marks, then I’m not painting.

And since the cooler, or worse yet, the motorcycle or the dinghy outboard WILL go back and forth, then, you guessed right, I’m not painting...
To paint, you have to be like Mike, or Bob who have immaculate boats and probably spend copious hours keeping it that way.
Other type of people!

[Tony Meola]

Tony,

How did your guy go about redoing the decks with non-skid? I started a post a while back about that and have not decided which way to go. Several guys recommended Kiwi Grip. The guy that painted my boat with Awl Grip scoffed at Kiwi Grip and said that I should go with a 2 part paint with nonskid mixed in (probably because that's what he does.) I'm still not sure how to proceed. My deck paint and non skid are functionally fine, just don't look as good as I would like.

JR

Jack

He used Alex Seal shot through a gun with the non skid mixed in. It came out great. I had purchased a gallon of Kiwi grip but just was not sure about how it would look. I initially got a price of $800, that included sanding down the old non skid which was done by thickening Gel coat with cabosil and then rolling it on. Believe it or not that lasted for 20 years but the last few years was getting kind of tired looking and in the final year was really not doing well as a non slip.

He found an area that had to be repaired so he added $200 to the price. I figured the initial number of $800 was not worth my sanding it down and rolling the paint on, when I could get a good spray job. He even gave me a clean border around the edges and the hatches. I had to bring the deck to him which really was not a problem since my deck still comes up in 3 pieces.

[jackryan]

Thanks Guys,

I had a crew inspecting and measuring my boat today to give me a quote on Awl grip rolled on with non skid. It'll be interesting to see what the quote is.I may have to do it after the fishing season. Like I said, it's still functional, just doesn't look great.

JR