Bertram 25 conversion to an outboard powered CC

spencer · Post by **spencer** » Jun 3rd, '19, 08:42

Pm me your email and cell
I’ll send photos any maybe u can post them
My photobucket account is not allowing me to grab
My pics

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 4th, '19, 12:55

a prize showed up today, quite heavy, going to be interesting installing.

Now I have to scramble to get the outside of the transom done. I ground the outside flush yesterday and need no more filling, I'm going to put 2 layers of 1708 over everything and those pieces are a little too big to do by myself and the backward lean of the transom.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Kv6dbgKZupTAszS6

I hope to make a template and figure out the placement of the bracket on the transom by the end of the weekend so I can then figure out the transom knees on the inside.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 6th, '19, 20:20

I did a job I was procrastinating on for some time, I glassed the inside of my front fishbox bulkhead underneath the cabin. I really don't like working in confined spaces as I don't want to get resin on me and as expected I got some on my arms trying to get the vertical sections.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xdGJa1yecUZyauKU9

This will make the under the cabin area forward water tight and I bought some chromed perko floor drains for the cabin floor and the thought is to just let them drain under the deck without a hose attached. I'm thinking of ways to get the water into the bilge so here are my thoughts

1. put some 1" ID PVC pipe through the bulkhead going into the fishboxes, I could put drain plugs in the PVC when I don't want fish stuff going the other way
2. drill 1" holes into the center stringer down low, water would go into the center stringer and straight back to the bilge.

am I over thinking this?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 7th, '19, 19:10

I took a 1/2 day and did some prep work for a while until one of my friends could come by and help me put 2 layers of 1708 over the flat of the bump out. I really appreciate my friends help because even with 2 people keeping a 34"x 60" wet out piece of glass on the negative angle transom was not easy, the second layer was worse as it would stick to the first layer of glass and try and pull that off.

I came up with a recycling idea to make my battery boxes, when I cut out the original battery boxes I left it as one peice. I tried fitting that in the boat as one piece and although it didn't fit right because the part had the center stringer in it and it fit high when on top of the center stringer it looked like it had potential. I cut off some extra pieces and then cut it down the center line and test fit. I think it looks good, puts all the batteries down low in the boat in front of the fuel tank and along the center line. I'll have to figure out how to span the rough edge
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xiH5gGDB4KNGTzjk7

I tried the pieces in the old motor well but they won't work as the starboard side covers the drain hole which I re-purposed in the past to use as a raw water pickup for my livewell and wash-down pumps.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZmHW885GuvD4aazs9

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 10th, '19, 08:49

did some work Sunday on the boat, nothing picture worthy but I'm making progress
1. got 1st round of fairing compound on the outside of the transom bump-out as well as the original scupper holes which I glassed in.
2. glassed the underside of the top cap on the starboard side where I made the deck bigger, this was a suck job as it is upside down and the resin was dripping on me as well as on the hull side as I tried to get the glass to sit on the vertical and underside of the top part. In order to get at all the areas I had to lean on the hull side and got resin on my shoulders. This has been another job I've been procrastinating on due the suck portion of it. I got so much resin on me I had to stop after and take a shower, when I do the port side tonight I'm going to put a tyvek suit on.
Picture of the area I'm talking about for frame of reference https://photos.app.goo.gl/mEV2nuZBn8MkLizx8
3. made a template for a transom knee to sit on the center stringer which will do dual duty of center support for deck as well as knee to take load from the transom. I'll post pics tonight after I clean it up but I made 3 layers of 3/4" Meranti plywood and glued them up using epoxy and west system high density filler as well as a little cabosil to stop the filler from moving so much. This was a pain to glue together because the parts wanted to move as they were clamped together. A woodworking trick I've learned was to sprinkle some coarse salt in the wood glue so the pieces would not slide against each other. Well I didn't know how the salt would act in this case with epoxy so I didn't use the method and the pieces were sliding as I was clamping. Anyone have a known good technique for doing this with epoxy?

When I made the knee, I wanted to have it come up to the top of the bump out portion of the transom plus not come out further than the front edge of the top cap, the result of this is not a lot of beef in the corner, maybe only 3" thick there. When I post a pic of it tonight, please tell me if it is even worth it to have the top portion as I'm not sure it would do all that much even with three layers of ply and 4 layers of 1708 glass over it.

mike ohlstein · Post by **mike ohlstein** » Jun 10th, '19, 11:25

ktm_2000 wrote:the second layer was worse as it would stick to the first layer of glass and try and pull that off.

If you let the first layer cure to a good tack, the subsequent layers will stay up better. As long as the previous layer hasn't fully cured, you still get a chemical bond between the two layers. In other words, You don't have to do a monolithic layup with this stuff. This is true for both polyester and epoxy, with epoxy being more forgiving if you wait too long (because it's an adhesive). And you should be using epoxy here anyway, so there you go.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 10th, '19, 12:31

Mike,

I would agree, I was trying to press on and get it done fast. In trying to conserve resin, I find that it is easier for me to setup a glassing table with plastic covering it, flip the glass over and wet out the mat side first, flip it back over and make sure it is wet out and then paint on some extra resin then lay the next layer on top mat side down, squeege it together and pickup resin from the 1st piece to wet out the mat side of the second, rinse and repeat for additional layers. From there pick off a layer and put it in place then manage bubbles.

In the case of the transom, the pieces were just so big and the backward angle of the boat made it more difficult so it was a pain I'm glad that there aren't too many tasks like that to do.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 10th, '19, 20:24

My wife had stuff to do after work so I had to get my kids and didn't get as much as I would like done tonight but did get the excess glue on the transom knee cleaned up. I ran it through the jointer a couple of times to flatten the bottom and back then rounded the exposed corners over with a router. Nice clean glue lines, I'm happy with the glue up.

outside the boat
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rgMEcKAC9Vf7JWi8A

In the boat, small board shows how the deck will sit on it, in the corner where board is, the knee is only 3" thick, for the top set of holes for the jackplate I will be getting one of those aluminum bars which spread the load of the outboard out and make a notch in the back side of the panel where the bar goes. The bottom set will have to be 2-3"x2-3" aluminum plates as I wouldn't want to cut any more material out of the area which there is only now 3" of material.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ywUKAtYxPBDKZWNi6

top view
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4UBS8zpncXMPmLgE7

cross section, what material did I start with??? 19mm x 3 = 57mm / 25.4 mm/inch = 2.44" inches
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FEKSuecNV9uheoVD6

Is the top part worth it? My father in law thinks the sharp 90 degree inside corner in the bottom will make a weak spot an it would break easy there. His thought is to use a hole saw to cut a nice 1/4 circle and then cut down from the top with a circular saw.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jun 17th, '19, 15:37

I guess I don't understand what failure mode you are trying to prevent with this knee/gusset. You are inserting a relatively weak brace from a really strong member (transom) to a weak stringer.

If you are concerned about:
1. upper jackplate bolts pulling out - use a long flat bar to distribute the load over a large area (just like every outboard uses when bolted to a transom)
2. Transom to stringer de-bonding - add more glass to the joint area
3. Transom "flex" - add a horizontal stiffening element across transom (plywood on edge, not flat)

If you are careful about the materials you use and how you attach your new deck to the boat, the deck will take care of #2 and #3. Make the deck a structural element. I would use Coosa or marine ply for that first deck panel (at least). Not sure what the shear rating is on the honeycomb panels in your pictures.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 17th, '19, 17:15

I think I was overthinking it............ I wanted to transfer load from the transom to the hull and as a side benefit break up the almost 4' span of deck in old motor well.

I agree with you on points 1&3 and am not sure about #2

your points:
1. I bought the aluminum bars to go on the inside of the transom
2. here's where I'm not sure, adding glass to which joint? I have 8 layers of 1708 going from transom to main stringers, I like your idea of using the deck and heavily glassing from the transom down onto the deck, I agree that the nidacore isn't as good as coosa here but my deck panels are all pre-fabricated and ready to cut to size and drop in so no rework in that area in my plans. I thought the knee would add value being able to tie from the transom down through the center stringer down to the hull bottom. I was thinking if the glass work from the knee to the stringer/hull bottom was done like I did the main stringers it wouldn't be considered weak anymore.
3. The flat portion on top of the knee was my attempt at preparing to do 2 layers of ply on edge as you described going transom corner to corner, I wanted to put a couple layers of glass on the inside of the corners first.

In the grand scheme of things, I think my mind was and may still be still thinking I have to prepare for a weakened transom which is notched. by keeping the transom whole, a lot of my perceived problems don't exist.

btw, the wife has veto'd me working non-stop every night after work and 1 day a weekend so I'm probably looking at a next spring launch. I still want to get the deck in and glassed by the middle of july so I can uncover the boat and do more cosmetic work than what I planned on doing this year.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Jun 18th, '19, 06:54

I hear you. I am the poster child for over-thinking and creating complexity from simplicity.

My suggestion is to not use that knee. I don't think you need to augment the transom at all, but if you are looking for margin, use the deck panel and other elements to add stiffness. If in doubt, add glass.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/Ih ... KaGb5BkDVW

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jun 18th, '19, 08:35

had to do daddy day care so I didn't get started working on the boat till late and got 1hr in and all I got done was to sand the transom for another round of fairing compound and I put a couple of small pieces of glass on the hatch frame which will go over the fishbox. I'm trying to do the entire deck in poly/vinylester so I can gelcoat the deck. It was kind of nice to work with vinylester as the glass went over the compound curves of the hatch frame much easier than if I were to use epoxy.

here's a pic of the hatch frame after I cut it down to only fit one side of a original hatch, I've been glassing the joints from the top and will reinforce the bottom tonight.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/X8aAxN8D38ieB1uK9

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jul 1st, '19, 20:04

It seems to me that I haven't got a lot done on the boat the last 2 weeks but here's an update
1. did several glassing sessions on the fishbox hatch frame reinforcing where I cut it to make it smaller. It is reinforced well from the top yet needs quite a bit of sanding and some fairing. I reinforced the bottom with 2 layers of 1708 overlapping the cut joints so they would have at least 4 layers.
2. I found a craigslist ad for a guy selling 4 commercial bomar aluminum hatches for $160, I will need 2 for my project and thought I could sell the other 2 and reduce my cost for them. The Mainer who was selling them was a nice guy and he told me that they were "worked hard" . I've spent a fair amount of time in Maine and most folks up there are quite honest so I was somewhat worried that they would be completely shot and non-rebuildable. The guy said the were so I took a risk and as a kicker my wife had been bugging me for a weekend of Maine, so off we went. The hatches were dirty and all need gaskets, none of the frames were warped, some missing parts, but the guy gave me a 5th one for the same price. We spent the rest of the time in an ocean front motel in east boothbay harbor and enjoyed ourselves quite a bit. here's a photo a short walk from the hotel https://photos.app.goo.gl/U1pAvR3hjQQmNq7G9. When I got home I took one apart and the center gasket was completely shot, it was also held in via wood screws (the worked hard bit). I will drill out and put in heli-coils to refurb. I also took a grinder to it and it cleaned up nicely with a 36 grit flap pad. the hatches will cost me some labor and parts to refurb but If I resell a couple, I should save the $1k that they would have cost if I bought new.
3. Transom bump-out glass. I've done 3 passes of fairing compound and sanding, its pretty flat now but still not perfect, will put on one more and call it quits. fairing is not my cup of tea.....
4. Storage area in fishbox - I glassed it in and put a center divider on top of it which will pick up the load in the center of the hatch.
5. Picked up my fuel tank

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Jul 2nd, '19, 20:05

I got a couple hours of work in today, started by cleaning up the excess glass that I put on the backside of the fishbox hatch because rather than cutting the raw glass exact to size I let the excess hang over the edges.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EhBykDDZX78N4h279

from there I test fit the hatch in the boat, I needed to do some fine tuning of the center supports to allow it to sit flat. The darkened wooden beam is going in under the deck to spread the load of the doghouse and give it a good spot to through bolt it to the boat. I made the piece out of marine ply, rounded over the bottom edges and glassed the bottom side which will be exposed in the bilge. The storage space in the front took me a lot of effort to make, there isn't going to be a lot of storage on the boat so anything I can add will help.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NvTM2Q5i77LvATrX7

Here's a shot with the hatch in the hatch frame after I ground the rear support to the correct top height and made a space for the center support to rest in. I think the glass I added to the frame is going to be enough as I walked over the hatch and there was no flexing.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ej9czYSpqfUQAXi99

I also ground all the gelcoat off the old batter boxes and made them fit in the space right aft of the fishbox
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BEPcwDLcDsj7y2gA7

the night was finished mixing up some resin and filler and glueing down the pieces of nidacore I am using to raise the deck to the correct height so I can use the lip I left of the original deck around the perimeter of the boat.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 09:13

I haven't posted in a while but have been making progress on the boat SLOWLY. I had a rough stretch where the family issues got in the way and we had to do some re-arranging of priorities... no fun

work on the battery box:

I have the battery box in and glassed, this took WAY more time than I anticipated to re-use the piece of glass that was the original battery box.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zm99yQuL8RBKTNSn7

The pieces were too short in both directions so my thought was to use both pieces as a pattern, glass them together with 4" extra in the middle to get the extra material that I needed. I clamped it down to a work table covered in plastic and screwed 1/4 ply under the other and glassed it together one direction, scribed it to fit the boat then glassed it together in the other direction.

Pic of it glassed together before cutting it in 1/2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/bBP6dZwiV1Hr8zkG7

After all was fitted, I glassed the pieces into the boat
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AaqfKCeB2Qn7QRV56

After 2nd round of fairing compound
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8FbUNPzQmS7gNyPf8

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 09:24

here's the work on the motor well

I cut down the excess on the knee that I built then glassed it in and glassed the center stringer down with 4 layers of 1708 ( Cam, I heard you that the center stringer wasn't strong). In addition 2 plates were added in to
have places for the bilge pumps to mount. The back plate is for a 2000 gph normal every day bilge pump, the higher front plate is for a 3700 GPH crash pump
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4qzxRKokFgdNjv5H8

got some bling for the boat, transom thru-hulls and shut-offs for livewell output and crash pump, as well as strainers and locking hatch handles for the fish boxes and
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hMPyhikadbpRKS9g6

Something with the epoxy that I'm using is strange when it is interacting with marine plywood. I cut a 3/4" piece to back the sea-cock and glued it down with thickened epoxy then put 4 layers of 1708 over it. It looked good more than 1/2 hr after finishing and cleaning up when I took this pic
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WhCYnmT3y5NrzktA8

I came out the next day and there was a bubble (arrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh) which required 2 more steps to grind down and glass again. If anyone knows how to avoid this I am all ears!!!!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZRVro9qZv3MBZFb69

some fairing has been done on the motor well, hopefully I can finish the fairing this week and start priming and painting.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/N2srCxh7PDyFrFtj8

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Aug 26th, '19, 09:27

Looks good! I can relate to slow progress! It took essentially 2 solid days to install the new rub rail.

I've stopped calling this a project, now that I am beyond the 10 year mark, I call it a hobby!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 09:27

Fishbox is coming along well but slow too.

the fishbox has had 2 passes of fairing compound. This area has taken a lot of time as I'm 6'1" and don't fold up all that well to get into spots to sand

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mXsGteJ2tep2Yrnk7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 09:36

last piece, the transom is for the most flat, there are some areas that are 1/8" off but they are below the water line. it is ready to prime, I'm waiting on the internal areas to be done before priming it, in the mean time it is covered in plastic.

I also decided this weekend to glass in the vent so I'll have a place to put the name of the boat, more sanding and fairing items on the to-do list....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3odKowaPLUQe459M7

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 10:15

Hobby? I don't know what to call it? Self-torture sessions, that works.........

I can't wait to get out of the bilge so I'm not trying to position myself on some type of sloped area and turn myself into a pretzel to work.

Some thoughts...

I spend way too much time measuring and mixing resins, if I were to take on a project like this again, I need a better way. I am quickly loosing my mind counting to 60 five times in a row switching hands stirring each minute.

The cups I am using works out well to make 10oz and 20oz of resin, smaller jobs I'm finding myself bunch them up.

Making up fairing compound is slow, microballons and cabosil seem to take forever to mix in and get to the right consistency, the mixture also seems to want more filler late, in other words the resin doesn't fully saturate the filler and after using 1/2 the cup of mix, the 2nd half wants more filler added / mixed in.

I'm burning through mixing cups like it is going out of style. I was lucky and habitat for humanity had some for $.25 so I bought 100.

Any work I can do in Vinylester is much easier / faster than work with epoxy. Almost all the work under the deck has been in epoxy, once I glass in the deck, I'm going over to vinylester so I can gelcoat the deck.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Aug 26th, '19, 11:23

Ha!

I use the metered pumps for small batches. Large batches I use the mixing cups - one for resin, one for hardener, one for the mixed goo.

I sacrificed an old cordless drill to serve as the official mixer. I use the red, small bladed mixers in the drill. Works great and fast!

For fairing compound, I use the 2-part kits. Never bothered to make my own.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Aug 26th, '19, 12:20

I hear you on the pre-mix fairing compound. I've got a 5 gallon kit of the vinylester compound waiting for me for when I do the deck.

I really want to get away from epoxy the 24 hr cure/wait time is a killer too. I did the battery box extensions with vinylester resin, glassed one side at night, next morning flipped it glassed back side, wait 2 hrs cut in 1/2, glassed together the other way, wait 2 hrs flip and glass the other side. so 4 glassing sessions in under 24 hrs on one piece. if done in epoxy, 4 days ....

I have an old drill, I think the batteries are cooked though, I'll have to charge one up to see if it will work for mixing

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 9th, '19, 14:25

been getting more work done, hit a major roadblock but am trying to get around it.

I finished fairing out the bilge areas and coated with interlux epoxy bilge coat then sanded it out to 120 grit paper, came out real good.
fishbox
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WpPuuZU4zMwU163P6
motorwell
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WkYFyPcY6Ug484jS8

then here's where $hit went south FAST. I couldn't get the bilge paint the folks here recommended and went with Jamestown Distributors Totalboat bilge paint. When I did the interlux primer, I used 2 quarts, when I used the totalboat paint, I used 2 pints so 1/2 the paint. It was 80 degrees out and sunny, the paint went on fine and seemed dry to the touch in 4 hours.

The stuff just didn't cure, I tried 1 day later, paint wouldn't sand, 2 days later no go, 4 days later same, now 8 days later same results.

I've had to start taking it off using acetone and scrubbing with a scotchbrite

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 9th, '19, 14:43

in waiting for the paint to cure so I could sand it out I worked on cutting out my deck and got the first deck piece cut to size then cut the hole for the hatch and installed the hatch frame in with vinylester bonding compound.

rough fitting
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Du8kexJsQX6T4P856

needed to contour the honeycomb to fit the underside of the hatch frame
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1cz1Dgturg2KzToB6

glued in and clamped down
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hXG7QC91mTRB4MhMA

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 9th, '19, 14:49

also during the paint wait, I started building a leaning post

made a jig, cut panels to size and ground off gelcoat where glass was to go
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Yd5HDZK42ygTqfZU6

glassed inside
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VkXeESVitVPGsmEt5

Ground off outside corners, then added thickened resin back in to make an outside radius
https://photos.app.goo.gl/W28GDxMRziRxBhEG9

ground down the outside to a radius
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PJaMmH71v5LBK2Zx7

Glassed the exterior with a layer of 1708 then 1.5 oz mat, pic is after sanding glass
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RN3rua4QorMpxiL36

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 9th, '19, 14:53

I cut the back out of the leaning post to put in a livewell and tested the fit, then fabricated a top piece for the livewell portion and filled one side with thickened resin and a piece of skin left over, then the other side with thickened resin and 1.5oz mat

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZAEUKJ43Zhx45PgJ9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/6HyMa8SYvKZavBJC6

filling the core
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HKkHnZEDpf9FsKkp6

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 9th, '19, 15:23

You applied it too thickly which resulted in solvent entrapment (skin cures and inhibits the cure in the bulk). I did the same with the sole of my center console and I had to mechanically remove all the goo and re-apply. Use the very tight foam rollers and thin coats. I have been using the Total Boat product.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 9th, '19, 16:09

Cam,

your theory is probably correct but I find it hard to believe. If it is true they should tell folks to use some type of brushing thinner to give it more open time.

I used 2 pints to cover most of the bilge where I used 2 quarts of the epoxy primer coat, so 50% less material went on, I didn't go over spots a 2nd time, used a 1/4" nap roller. I've never come across a paint which was so particular along with such disastrous results if off even slightly what a nightmare.

I've purchased interlux's product for the next round, their can says 16hr cure at 70 degrees, I can live with that if I can get the existing crap off.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 10th, '19, 07:54

I used a short nap roller for my console sole with the same result. It's a royal pain to get it all off and start over. Killed a day at the boat shed. Once it's on and cured, it seems to perform very well.

scot · Post by **scot** » Sep 11th, '19, 17:49

As you are into some heavy glass work, might I suggest a tool.
I spent years in the "fiberglass fog" of grinding. The Makita 9031 (1-1/8" belt sander) is a fantastic replacement for that mini-grinder with flapper wheels. The front handle easily comes off and it goes into tight spots the mini-grinder cannot get into. Put the 40 grit on it, turn it up and it will eat anything in its path.. finer paper and turned down (they are variable speed) and it will do fine shaping, etc. BEST TOOL I own for large scale fiberglass work. BEST $225 I have ever spent on a tool. Took me a while to let go of the money for a specialty piece like this.. wish I had done it years ago!

The glass dust coming off the tool tends to fall into concentrated areas, for easy clean up and not sent air born in a fog. Used with the tool in one hand and a vac hose in the other, your area will stay fairy clean and dust free. The tip is a great for detail shaping, inside radius etc. the flat section of the tool will level out your work. The key to using the tool is keep it moving! This is the tool the guy uses on Boat Works Today Youtube videos.

Next suggestion: Goldbond with 4% Lidocane for the itch. Numbs the skins, stops the itch!

Took a few years to figure that one out as well LOL.

Nice looking project, good luck!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 11th, '19, 21:44

thanks Scot,

I've seen the videos from Boatworks today. There has been several times which a tool like that would have come in handy.

As for my project, I put a 500 watt halogen on the port side over last night then moved it to the starboard side during the day. When I got home from work I started sanding the crap paint with 80 grit and some places sanded but the paper clogged within 5min. I thought about Cam's theory of trapped solvents and came up with the idea of going over everything with a coarse grit paper with the hopes of putting holes in the paint skin letting the insides cure out. I put on a 40 grit pad on the 6" DA and went over everything lightly and it didn't clog with paint, hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! something worked.

I then went back over the area and put more pressure on the pad and it started taking the paint off. It wasn't the typical paint dust, it was tiny little balls of rubbery material, If I press them together they would stick. Any which way I was able to fairly quickly sand most of the fishboxes down and only went through 2 sanding pads doing it. I didn't finish because the light was poor and the mosquitoes came out in force but I am feeling much better about being able to start over and get the bilge painted.

My sanding was probably too aggressive and I did take off a lot of the epoxy primer so I'm thinking if I can get it sanded out tomorrow night with the 40 grit to get rid of it all, then come back through with 80 to get a smoother surface I might be able to put down another round of epoxy primer friday then some Interlux bilge coat on over the weekend.

I also took the 1st deck panel out of the boat and inspected the bond and the hatch seems to be in good. There is not a lot material aft of the hatch opening and stepping there, there was a little flex so I think I am going to reinforce the underside of the front and back of the hatch opening with a few layers of glass. The sides are over the stringers so no issues there. The nice part about this is that it is out of the boat and I have multiple different things that I can work on, if something takes a long time.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 11th, '19, 21:54

Scott,

here's how I deal with fiberglass dust....... I do almost all my work with full workboots, windpants and a long sleeve golfing windbreaker. To top it off, I use a dusk mask, and full face shield. I cut a hole in the shrinkwrap in the front of the boat and run a large window fan to move dust out.

Boatbuilding over the summer for me is a workout on the sander and a FAT reduction plan as I sweat my A$$ off being fully covered up and have to drink large amounts of water.

How is your project coming along? I seem to remember you doing a single screw prop pocket on your B25.

Yannis · Post by **Yannis** » Sep 11th, '19, 21:58

Scot,

If I were a Makita manager, I’d hire you ...immediately!

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 12th, '19, 06:30

I need one of those tools soooo many times! Can't believe I never bought one.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 12th, '19, 11:35

I've been thinking about this a bit, I will have to sand the deck to hull side connection soon which has a lot of curves and that type of tool would probably work out pretty good there.

Is the harbor freight $35 1/2" wide cheap model worth trying out before plunking down a good amount of $ on the obviously better version?

for all the small detail stuff, I've been using a 1/4" angle die grinder with a 2" diameter sanding pad running off my compressor which works ok but years ago I didn't realize the difference between a oil vs oiless compressor and bought the less capable. It has been on my wish list to upgrade my compressor as well.

anyone know of a electric version of that tool?

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 12th, '19, 13:58

I am not aware of an electric version. I fought buying a good compressor for a long time, but now wish I had bought it early on. I bought two 3M sanders on craigs list years ago on a whim, this one has been a go-to tool for areas like the deck/hull joint. I run with a 10 cfm compressor (50 gallon storage) for relatively short periods of time.

https://www.tooltopia.com/3m-automotive ... xeEALw_wcB

scot · Post by **scot** » Sep 13th, '19, 12:59

1/2" belt will get into tight spots, but too narrow IMHO. Harbor Freight sells one-time use tools, which I buy on occasion. Go with the 1-1/8" 9031 Makita, it will turn into your "go to" tool. You will not regret the money spent. BTW...don't let it sit in one spot, keep it moving!!
Yes, mine is a straight inboard conversion. Since the addition of an awning and a decent shop, the project is progressing nicely. Getting the project out of the weather was critical for me to move forward, rains tooooo much down here.

Cam, I also setup the Oneida cyclone vac system (Dust Deputy). No more clogged vac filters, vac suction stays high. Silly little thing works great, drops 99% of the dust (itching powder) into the 5 gal pal.

Belt sander makes little piles, vac system sucks it up. Stay fresh my friends.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 13th, '19, 21:16

I sanded 3 more hours today after work, I think I've got 90% of the totalboat paint off but it is still not perfect. I'm going to sand a bit more tomorrow before painting. I'll get most of it but not all, the spots that are left will be the tight spots which I won't be able to get a tool in to clean out, like the flange on the center stringer.

Here's my issue, what primer do I use? I've got a quart of the 2 part epoxy based primer and a quart of the one part primer. The first round I was over bare epoxy based repairs so I used the epoxy based product. This time I'm sure that I won't have all of the totalboat paint off and am worried about the 2 part paint curing right over the not cured single part paint.

I think I'm going to go with the single part primer, what do you think I should do?

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 14th, '19, 14:18

I changed my mind and went with the 2 part primer.

It started raining right after I got done. I'm glad I went with the 2 part.

I'm not going to tempt fate and try to get anything else done and will go to the cape and spend some time with the wife and kids, will come home tomorrow afternoon and hopefully get the first layer of topcoat paint on.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 16th, '19, 08:53

Yesterday afternoon was like deja vu...........

I sanded out the epoxy primercoat, this time with 220 and it was cured out fine after 22hrs. I then vacuumed and solvent wiped the surface and mixed up some Interlux Bilge coat with some of their brushing thinner and painted away. I was done by 3pm and left the fan and window to the shrinkwrap open till 6pm then closed up the shrink wrap and swapped out the fan for a small electric heater which I ran all night.

hopefully this stuff cures by 5 tonight so I can put another coat on tonight. The can says 16hrs at 70 degrees, the heater should have done that for me overnight. by the time I get out of work it will be 26hrs later so I should be good to go.

this incident of non-curing paint has cost me dearly.
1. $100 in sandpaper / acetone, gloves, paintbrushes, etc to get the crap totalboat paint off
2. $60 in an additional quart of epoxy primercoat
3. $109 in a gallon of Interlux bilge coat
4. $34 in a quart of Interlux brushing thinner
5. 2 weeks of project time
5. This one is the kicker - about 20 hours of labor to get the paint off and get back to the point where I was at 2 weeks ago.

I had posted on thehulltruth about the paint and received 8 private messages from others that the paint didn't cure for them either. This is obviously a defective product which Jamestown Distributors will not acknowledge that they have issues with. If anyone is considering using the Totalboat Bilge paint - DO NOT DO IT.

The money I don't care about, it is the time.

CamB25 · Post by **CamB25** » Sep 16th, '19, 10:33

Sorry for your troubles, but it's not the Total Bilge product. I've used it almost everywhere that I need a bilge coat and it worked fine in all areas except the center console sole where I applied it much too thickly.

If that's the only part of the project you have to re-do, you'll be very lucky!

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 16th, '19, 12:32

Cam,

What I am ticked about is the time, I should have had my deck in by now and had 2-3 weeks of time to finish it and work on other items such as my doghouse before the weather gets to a point where I can't work with resins. If I get done painting the bilge this week and the rest of my deck panels cut out and fitted this weekend, I should be able to bribe my buddies for a large scale glassing operation the following weekend. The nidacore panels have 2 layers on the bottom and one layer on the top, I want to glue them down then tape them together at the seams and edges, then put 2 more layers of 1708 on top then a layer of 1.5oz mat to fill the weave and give me something to sand.

If things go to my new plan I will have a week to fair and get gelcoat down and have to push everything else out till next spring.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 16th, '19, 19:41

I got the 2nd coat on the bilge tonight, the 1st coat of the paint sanded up to a fine dust with 220 on an electric DA. There was one spot where I had a drip near the corner of the lip of the fishbox storage area where the paint was a little rubbery, I moved away from that spot and did everywhere else then hit it when I changed pads. With the new pad it came right off and left a smooth surface.

One thing I noticed with this paint is that I have black vibram soles on my old hiking boots that I work in and when I stepped in the fishbox made black marks. The total boat paint the black marks went in for good and couldn't be cleaned off until I completely removed the paint. The interlux paint was easy enough to wipe the area with some denatured alcohol and the marks came off completely.

I've got an electric heater on it now and will let it go all night and tomorrow during the day as the high temps tomorrow is supposed to be 65. I don't know if I will get a 3rd coat on tomorrow or if I will wait till wednesday. It looked pretty good after 2 coats, I'm planning on doing at least 3, will have enough paint for 4 coats if I want to spend another night at it.

I'm really happy to be moving forward again.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 17th, '19, 19:41

the heater did the trick and I was able to get the 3rd coat on tonight. I'm going to need a 4th coat in a couple places but for the most part it is looking pretty good.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 17th, '19, 21:30

Scot, I took your suggestion and ordered the Makita, will be here thurs /friday, just in time for me to sand the hull to deck joint with it.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 18th, '19, 08:25

My buddy sent me this link to a B25 CC on the hull truth https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale ... st12940092

What do you think about the console placement within the boat? Personally I think it is a little too far back, I will have the back of my leaning post/livewell where the back of his console is now effectively leaving me the space where the coaming dips down back as free and clear cockpit space.

PeterPalmieri · Post by **PeterPalmieri** » Sep 18th, '19, 08:59

ktm_2000 wrote:My buddy sent me this link to a B25 CC on the hull truth https://www.thehulltruth.com/boats-sale ... st12940092

What do you think about the console placement within the boat? Personally I think it is a little too far back, I will have the back of my leaning post/livewell where the back of his console is now effectively leaving me the space where the coaming dips down back as free and clear cockpit space.

Looking past the weight balance of the boat, where you are standing while running the boat is going to effect how it feels to you, further back less up and down. Other then that if you are trolling or drifting from the stern having more real estate will be beneficial. If you are running and gunning with guys up on the bow or are planning a coffin box, further back will help. I think you make those judgments first based on balancing the boat and secondly how you plan on fishing her...

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 18th, '19, 10:09

Peter,

I mostly do inshore striped bass fishing where I either drift live bait or troll wire line. I will be putting a set of swivel rod holders forward of the helm for extra coverage drifting or so I could put wire line out and snap the wire from the helm.

for tuna, I either run an gun or troll for smaller fish, I have no desire to mess with Giants, although I will setup the transom with swivels to be able to run a set of bent butt 80s. I have enough stand-up gear to run a 7 rod spread of 4 50s and 3 30s

Ideally I want a large clear cockpit so I have decided to push my console further forward than what the other guy did. I also cut away 22" out of the cabin and made it deck space so it kind of balances out. From the ride perspective, I had my console in that position for many years now and the ride is quite good. Effectively my position at the helm was over the center of buoyancy. Loosing weight from the I/Os may change that though and I will have to see how it impacts the ride.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Sep 18th, '19, 10:34

As Cam advised keep batteries together somewhere on center line as far aft as possible or as Peter advised for balance purposes. You did may want to consider location of battery switches while planning. Don’t want to create 2 long runs of cables, one to switches and then back to motors.

ktm_2000 · Post by **ktm_2000** » Sep 18th, '19, 11:33

it is all a set of decisions, one decision drives another.

I moved the batteries from the stock location in order to get a larger fuel tank. It probably would have been easier to grow the fuel tank forward and move the cross bulkhead there than grow it to the stern and move the stock battery box. I chose to go the way that I did because I was more concerned with loosing strength in the main stringers in the 1st 1/2 of the boat where I believe the most stress is on them.

I would have liked the batteries in the old motorwell, there was just no way to do it without putting them almost on the bottom of the hull as there is not a lot of depth there, nor would there be room for 2 bilge pumps, macerator pump, livewell pump, washdown pump to be in the same place as the batteries.

I will need large and $$$ battery cables to make sure there isn't voltage drop for starting the motor. As for wiring runs for all the accessories, no matter what I did there would be long runs for those items as long as I wanted the switches for them at the helm.