New Guy

[Nigellopes]

Hello, Long time lurker, first time poster. Thank you Capt Patrick McCrary for accepting me. My name is Nigel, from brick NJ. In the past few years I have been searching to upgrade from my current boat to a better fishing platform. Ive spent hours upon hours researching and looking at different boats. I’ve always seen the 31’s out on the water, but the first time I saw one up close I told myself I’ve gotta have one. I been searching looking online, and I found one down in Virginia, had 370 Cummins motors in it, with an apparent 700 hours. I made an offer on the boat, owner accepted, but the deal never went through. I know the Cummins platform well and do not know much about other marine diesels.
Saw one for sale in cape May New Jersey, powered with Yanmar 6LPA-STP’s. Says the repower was done in 06, so I’m going to have to assume that the motors are either an 05-06 model. I joined boat diesel, and these motors seem to be a reliable power plant from what I’ve read. Does anyone on here have any real world experience with these engines that would be willing to chime in? How do the boats perform with this power? Any gripes?
Any thing in particular to look for on the 31. If anyone in my area ever needs a hand working on or is willing to show me around there’s I would greatly appreciate it. I would love to opportunity to learn as much as possible.

Thanks!
Nigel

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

Welcome

You will find that there are several members in your area. From Sandy Hook down to Cape May. There are several right up by you in Point Pleasant. There are several of us down in lower Barnegat Bay.

The Yanmars are very reliable. I run Cummins in mine, but I will let those with Yanmars tell you about any items you need to concern yourself with. The thing I like about the Cummins is that you can get a lot of the parts from Truck dealers.

As far as the boat in Cape May, do you have name on her. Someone on here might know something about the boat.

[Nigellopes]

Tony,

Thanks for the reply. I do like the knowing that parts are readily available and local. There is a big Cummins pets dealer right on route 33, allied diesel. If they don’t have the part in stock, they’ll have it next day. I used to be into the trucks, tore down a 24v rebuilt it, and went over to mechanical injector in the process. I know the motors well.

I’m hoping to hear some positives about the yanmars, or even eventually locate a boat with Cummins motors for sale.

The name of the Boat is Breakaway. It’s actually located in ocean city, don’t know why I wrote cape May, it was late and I was up dreaming lol. The motors have approx 1500 hours on them.

Link: https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1974 ... %20listing

Thanks,

Nigel

[Tommy]

Greetings Nigel and welcome aboard; you came to the right place for your questions. I owned Island Girl, a Bertram 31, and I had it re-powered with the same Yanmar 6LP-STE 315 HP engines. I maintained it "by the book" and had flawless service through my 10 year ownership. The Yanmars are fast (28 kt cruise), smooth, and relatively quiet (for a diesel). The subsequent owner of the boat reported to me several times that the engines continue to provide him good service. As long as the engines were properly installed and you have a good Yanmar service provider (or you or an independent mechanic have those skills) then you should get good service for years to come. I believe Mack Boring & Parts is the dealer in your area (located in Somerset, NJ). The boat you referenced appears to be priced right, but as always, you should hire a good marine surveyor to survey the boat and get a engine survey is well. If you get the service records, try calling the service tech and discuss the maintenance history with him; it may be that he remembers the boat, so to speak.

[Bruce]

Used the engines in numerous repowers and at last count about 14 31 Bertrams.

As Tommy said good maintenace is the key to keeping them up. Get a survey by a Yanmar certified dealer to be sure well worth it.

[Amberjack]

Nigel-You will see raging arguments on this board on both sides of the Cummins vs Yanmar question. They are both good engines and are the two modern marine diesels best fitted to our Bertram 31's. I installed Yanmar 6LP-STP's in Amberjack in 2004 and they have been reliable and comfortable (quiet, no smoke) ever since. Good oil is critical and change it annually, use the factory spec coolant and change it every two years/100 hours to prevent internal corrosion. I run mine year round every two weeks, under a light load at the dock in winter and out for a run in the season. The mechanic says to run them hard on a regular basis-it's what they're built for. Be sure you're not overpropped which will overload the engine, factory WOT is 3800 and I had mine propped for 3900 WOT. Change the r/w impellers every three years/150 hours and keep an eye on the heat exchangers which will degrade with deposits over time, about a 7 year cycle for mine. Just good diesel maintenance is all.

Parts will be more expensive than for Cummins but parts are a small part of the cost equation, your mechanic's time will cost more. I would look for established service in your area and then buy a boat with a power plant that matches their profile. BTW the 6LP's are the power plant for diesel powered Land Cruisers and you see them all over the mid-East and Africa. Tough engines.

[SteveM]

Nigel,

Here's a youtube of my Yanmars, first day in the water.

https://youtu.be/8yfV2qDNrMQ

[Nigellopes]

Tommy, thanks for chiming in. I am glad to hear that you had flawless service through your 10 years of ownership. I saw some information on that boat on Bertram31.com, beautiful boat. I will most definitely get a marine surveyor and a separate engine survey as well. Service history records are a big thing, at least to me. Reason the last deal on the 31 in Virginia fell through was because when I met with the owner he claimed to have all the paper work but when I asked for it he couldn't provide it. I didn't see the value in the boat if the motors weren't what he said they were and there was no way in proving it. I will look into Mack Boring & Parts, and a reputable Yanmar marine engine surveyor.

Bruce, good to hear that it seems to be a popular re-power choice. I am impressed with the cruise numbers Tommy mentioned.

Amberjack, I appreciate the advice. I will keep an eye on that RPM's and bring it up to the engine surveyor, would be nice to see it turn 100 over max rated RPM so when it has a full Canyon load the engines aren't working harder then they have to. Most of the maintenance I would plan on doing myself other than the timing belts which I believe are every 1000. Definitely going to check to see if there is paperwork to see if they were done, that's if these models are the ones with the Belts? I believe I read somewhere that one of the Yanmar Models timing was gear driven much like the cummins. A few hundred bucks here and there extra for me in upkeep of the engines doesn't really scare me, other than the belts (a job I wouldn't tackle myself), its a drop in the bucket in the whole scheme of things.

Steve, thanks for the video! Boat looks like underwent a nice refit and those engines sound nice!

I called the broker, waiting for a reply. Hopefully looking at it this weekend or sometime next week. I appreciate all the advice!

Nigel

[Tony Meola]

Tony,

Thanks for the reply. I do like the knowing that parts are readily available and local. There is a big Cummins pets dealer right on route 33, allied diesel. If they don’t have the part in stock, they’ll have it next day. I used to be into the trucks, tore down a 24v rebuilt it, and went over to mechanical injector in the process. I know the motors well.

I’m hoping to hear some positives about the yanmars, or even eventually locate a boat with Cummins motors for sale.

The name of the Boat is Breakaway. It’s actually located in ocean city, don’t know why I wrote cape May, it was late and I was up dreaming lol. The motors have approx 1500 hours on them.

Link: https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1974 ... %20listing

Thanks,
Nigel

Nigel
\
You were probably thinking about the other 31 for sale in Cape May. That one has the 4LP in her.

[Yannis]

May I ask what you consider as “reliable service record” in the US?

Do you get written reports of every single oil change? of coolant? of zincs? What if you change all this by yourself?
I understand that if you get an overhaul there could be some record somewhere, but if not?

All I can provide is all possible purchase invoices of all consumables (oil, zincs, belts, coolants, filters etc) direct from the Yanmar dealer, which may mean that since I buy them I use them too. So that’s some kind of proof that the motors have been serviced annually and responsibly.
As for any mechanic’s invoice, forget it. Nobody wants to issue any invoice, the mechanic because he will show income and will have to pay taxes, the boat owner because he will have to pay 24% VAT.

[SteveM]

Yannis, 24% VAT?! Whoa! I gotta tell my friends in the Bahamas to quit bellyaching over 7% VAT.

I suppose if you keep a log book, (which I should be better at) of everything done, it is valuable to yourself as well as the next owner.

[Carl]

Reliable service record is when you ask about maintenance schedule or what has been done and the owner pulls out a log book with hours, service intervals, basic maintenance, problems, fixes along with the documentation to back it up.

Some people AKA- me, change oil and filters end of year and mid year depending on use.
Tune ups as required or prior to long trips, check and go over motors fairly routinely to check on conditions, change as needed. I run around boat every few trips checking all systems when running...temps, sounds, wear, belts, hot manifolds, risers, packing glands etc etc. Try to be familiar with what is normal, whats changing from normal.

I'd prefer to buy a boat from someone who pulled out a log book with documentation...but couldn't go wrong buying from me either. Just a buyer would not know if I did what I say I do and stay ahead of issues or let them creep up till big problem then deal with them.
Likewise an owner with a log book highly detailed who hasn't a clue his motor is running warmer then normal as he has a blocked intake or impeller lost a blade or perhaps a tick/miss has developed but continues to just run it as maintenance was done...

Buddy bought a boat that has impeccable records. Shows each time the previous owner had anything done to it and every time he ran...or I should say "Tried" to run over a sandbar. Definitely explained why the shafts were bent, mounts shifted and...

Great to have records, better NOT to NEED the repairs...

[Yannis]

Steve, yes, 24% but there is also a low coeff of 13% for food and necessities. In other EU countries its around 18-22% for the high coeff, but consider, my mother is at a good (not state of the art) public hospital a week now, she’s been given serious treatment for a microbial infection in the blood, she’ll have to stay at least for another week or so, with daily blood checks, doctors etc. The final cost after all this? Zero. Without any private insurance. Somebody somehow has to pay for all this...

Carl, I keep a log book too, but I bet you a case of champagne if you can read and decipher what is written in it...good luck!
I wish one day I will find the time to sit down and make the matching of what is written to the corresponding invoice.

I guess the invoices of everything purchased, which I keep in a file, show quite a bit of what has been done, in other words, if I buy 20 liters of oil every year and 12 engine zincs and 6 or so filters etc every season, it is obvious that I do something with all this...if you also match it to the log book that, for a given period, says”oil change” or “annual service” I hope all this can count as a “service record” of some sort.

I left to the islands last week but was called back immediately upon my arrival, so I only have a few pics so far, will try to post.

[Amberjack]

The 315 hp Yanmar 6LP's have timing belts which require periodic replacement but 1,000 hours is a heck of a lot of seasons for most of us.

[Nigellopes]

Tony, you are correct. That’s the boat I was think of. That boat seems a tad bit pricey, I haven’t seen anything other than pictures, but the boat seems to have been neglected a bit. Are the 4LP’s four cylinders? Would you consider this a bit underpowered?

I finally got through to the broker, had to call twice and leave messages with his secretary. I don’t understand but every boat I’ve ever called on I’ve had to make multiple calls to try and get through to the broker, and ended up only looking at one. I guess these guys don’t really want to sell? Anyway, he said the boat won’t be available to show until July 4th weekend because the owner is using the boat this weekend. Claims he has paperwork for the motors, and maintenance log. I’m curious to see what I looks like, I guess time will tell.

I’ve been on the hunt to see if I can find any others for sale, but there aren’t many. I guess it’s slim pickings and beggars can’t be choosers.

The inshore bluefin tuna bite has been hot off jersey, I’ve ran off twice and did well both trip. Anyone else out there fishing?

[Carl]

Are the 4LP’s four cylinders? Would you consider this a bit underpowered?

Today that is a very subjective question.

If your happy cruising in the low 20knot area then 4 bangers are not underpowered.

If you need to be in the mid to high 20 knot range...your going to be underpowered with 4's.


I might be wrong, but seems most fall into these categories- -

250hp is about the midrange point for our boats.
250hp seems to cruise in the mid 20's

200hp gives a cruise in the low 20's

270-300hp brings cruise into the high 20's-30knts



Then go back to when the boats came out with 453's at 140hp cracking a 14 knt cruise.

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

I believe Doug has the 4 KLP's in his boat. Hopefully he will see this and chime in, but as Carl said cruise will be around 22 knots. Moving up to 6LP's will probably give you a 28 knot cruise. I have 270 Cummins and I am running around 24 knots.

Remember it is only a 31 foot boat so cruising at 28 knots will be done mostly in the bay and on flat days offshore. Heck a week ago I was out and it was hard running in Barnegat bay at anything over 18 knots. That short chop just beats you up.

But both the 4 and 6 in the Yanmars are reliable engines.

[Yannis]

I have the 4 lha stp's (240 hp in Europe) on a B 28.

I have the impression that with the same power, the 31 is a bit faster than the 28 because of the longer waterline, but I do welcome comments on this.
Anyway, with 3000 rpm I cruise at 24-25 knots all day long...and they are more economical than the 6 models. I know, because my buddy in an Albemarle 30 or 31 has the 315's and they consume at least 30% more, albeit at a slightly higher speed, maybe by 1-2 knots.
Also they are a lot cheaper to buy AND service.
They are lighter and require less space.
They are like the old Singer sewing machines, quiet and reliable.
And as Tony and others say, how often would you really be able to go that fast on the choppy seas?

PS: Over the years I tried many times to find the most economical rpm/speed ratio. I tried 2700 rpm, 2800, 2900, 3000 and realized that the 2900-3000 rpm range is the most economical! As a matter of fact the 2700 is visibly less eco. Beats me but that's how it works on my boat. Also, these motors like to be pushed, I believe that Yanmar proposes 3100 as the optimal cruise rpm (out of the WOT 3300).

Doug has the 230's, which I think are producing a faster result with even more economy than mine. I burn around 60 liters per hour at 24-25 knots cruise.

[ranjr13]

Our 31 Express with 230 Yanmars does 18kts @ 2,300rpm/7.5gph combined, 22kts @2,700rpm appx 10gph, max speed 29kts @ 3,300rpm. Great motors. Best of luck.

[Nigellopes]

I appreciate all the replies, I like having the idea of having the extra umph when you want it, but those cruise speeds mentioned are quick and like Tony has mentioned cruising that face would really be in the bay or flat days. Flat days are hard to come by only being able to run Sat-Sun most of the time anyway. Im glad to hear that the Yanmars are a good option for the boat and that so many people on here like them. I cant think of another boat built that gets the economy, has the seaworthiness, the fishing room, the speed, and can come with the reliability of diesel power other than the 31 Bertram. Guess that's why im so hung up on getting one.

The broker stopped answering me, was suppose to take a ride down this weekend. Waiting game at this point.

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

Depending what type of project you want to take on, The 31 that winters next to me may go on the market. Still has gas in her. If he decides to put her up for sale, I will let you know. He told me in May he was thinking about it.

[Nigellopes]

Tony,

I appreciate it. Might be an option, if condition of boat and price is right. Preferably would like to get into something with good power and fix things around it as I use the boat over the years. Could also take on a project, pull tower, haul it to my shop, strip it down, work on it, then bring it somewhere to have the repower done. I’m confident enough in my ability’s to remove and replace engine, but to swap is a whole different animal I don’t know that I’d be able to take on. I’d assume I’d be near 90k to install two diesel powered engines.

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

The reason 90 is probably close is due to the fact that you basically will need to rebuild the whole back end. Probably a new bulkhead, fix the strut area, glass in the shaft tubes, then wiring. Yes close.

Your best bet would be the right size diesels that are take out running engines. Can be had cheaper. They are out there, you just need to search.

[DanielM]

Nigel,

Welcome to the board. I don’t want to hijack your thread but I’m intrigued by your comment above.

“I used to be into the trucks, tore down a 24v rebuilt it, and went over to mechanical injector in the process. I know the motors well.”

I have twin 24v Cummins in my 30’ CC tournament sportfisherman and have thought about swapping out the VP44 injection pumps for mechanical. I have a couple inline nippondenso mechanical injection pumps but have never really done my homework on the swap. I’ll PM you my contact number. I’d like to talk with you if you get a chance.

Again, welcome to the board and good luck with your search.

Daniel

[Nigellopes]

A bit of an update. The broker completely stopped answering me, left a few messages with the secretary and she said he would get back to me and it never happened. Guess I’m giving up on this one. Still on the search, hopefully something will pop up, the closer to home the better.

DanielM, I have been busy with work, I will get you all the information on the process of the swap and the kits available to do it ASAP, I apologize I haven’t done it yet.

[Tommy]

Nigel,

I'm not a boat broker, but I am a commercial real estate broker. In my business I have a fiduciary responsibility to my client, which means I am to serve his best interests, and the state real estate commission requires that we maintain professional ethics. The boat broker you mention is either (1); lazy and incompetent, or (b) he's a crook; as there is no reason to not provide you with the courtesy of a response. If I were you, I would try to reach the boat owner and let him know his broker is not serving his best interests. The broker may have a prospective buyer, that is a friend, that he hopes to secure a deal for. If it turns out that the broker is being non-communicative at the direction of the owner, then maybe they are both just jerks.

[neil]

Nigel there is a very nice express at south jersey yacht sales on beaver dam road in pointpleasant brokers name is drew,beautiful boat totally redone

[DanielM]

Nigel,

No worries, I’m in the middle of a house swap moving to our new digs here in town. Doing a little remodeling on both the old one and the new one. Between that and work I haven’t had any free time either. I would like to pick your brain about the conversion, but no hurry, I’ll catch up with you a little later.

Thanks

Danny

[thuddddddd]

not to steer you away … but … take a look at the top 2 listings on the for sale topic.... the 35 would make a heck of a project …(I'd have bought it if I didn't get the 38 Topaz express ) or .. as a project the 31..... if you have time to do a restoration

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

Timmy is right on the 35. If you aren't a boat that will eat up and spit out a 10 foot head sea the 35 us the nnoa t tgga t will fo it.

I have never seen either boa, but is worth talking to Whaler about their condition.

[Nigellopes]

Bit of a success, we’ll sort of. I ended up looking up the boat name on a boat doc website, found information on a boat with the same name, same length, and same location as listing, paired with an address. I said what the hell, it’s a shot in the dark, but I’ll send a letter in the mail.

Three days later (yesterday) I get a phone call from a random number, answer it and it’s a boat broker, he tells me the owner got my letter, managed to get out of contract with the other broker because he was extremely unhappy with him, listed it with a new broker and gave him my number. I’m driving down this Sunday to go take a look at the boat.

In the midst of all this waiting I decided to take a look at a 29 Blackfin, very clean boat 5 minutes from my house. I’m actually meeting with the broker tonight to show me the boat. Only down side is it comes with 3116 Cat motors. I have made various phone calls and no one will touch them other than Cat themselves. I’m in Local 825 Operators Union, so I called some older gentleman I know that we’re mechanics and they all told me the same thing, great motors, but the injector cups are made out of Brass / Copper and tend to leak over time, and to sync the injectors is a PITA, you need special cat specific tools, you better hope you get a tech that actually knows what they are doing, and have your check book ready. So ultimately, I think I’ll be passing on this boat.

If the Bertram is sound, and the Yanmars are sitting on aluminum frames, and seem mechanically sound I’m going to make an offer, and proceed with an engine survey and hopefully get the boat.

I sold my boat last weekend so now I’m itching to make a move.


Neil, I was over there earlier in the week standing on the dock drooling. Unfortunately that’s out of my price range, but man that boat is pretty! The Blackfin I speak of is in the same lot, has sat in the hard all summer. Didn’t go in this year for whatever reason.

Daniel, I’ve been reading through old threads on the swap to 100% refresh my memory and going through old photo albums, I’m going to send you a write up on as much information I can give you on the swap along with my phone number.

Wish me luck guys. Hopefully this works out.

[PeterPalmieri]

Hey Nigel are you still talking about breakaway? If those motors check out that is a great power package at a very reasonable price. I hope it all works out for you.

[Nigellopes]

Peter, yes that’s the one I’m talking about. I hope everything checks out.

[PeterPalmieri]

Peter, yes that’s the one I’m talking about. I hope everything checks out.

I hope it works out for you but I’m a bit sceptical. That same boat in similar condition with gas power is going to fetch more then 30k to be listed just above 50k means either something is up or the owner is super realistic. Hopefully the owner wants to be the best deal on the market and you are the fortunate beneficiary.

[Tony Meola]

Nigel

Good luck. Hope to see you cutting across Barnagat Bay.

[scot]

Daniel,
You can install the P7100 pump in those 24Vs. It's a thing among the rolling coal crowd

[DanielM]

Nigel,

Thanks for putting some info together on the 24v. No hurries though, like I said earlier I’m doing some remodeling projects and the boat is way down the list right now. But, it would be cool to talk to someone that has actually made the swap, I’ll catch up with you eventually.

Good luck on the B31 with the Yanmars, that should be a sweat ride if it checks out ok.



Scot,

Yep. It’s a thing in the trucks. I wound up with the P7100s by accident from a guy that was going to convert a couple 24Vs but sold the boat he was going to put them in. I’ve had them around the shop for a while.