Planning a restoration project B25. Soliciting Advice

[Ttownthomas]

OK,

I am not a boat builder and have no experiance with fiberglass work. I have restored cars and motorcycles and am considering a bertram 25 restoration project. I am not looking for opinions on if this is a good idea or not. I know this will be a many years long project. I'm looking for advice on picking the right boat for the project.

I have found a boat and here is the description and info from the pictures I have seen

1970's B25 Moppie
Sternrive Mercruiser 250's.
Pretty original fresh water kept boat. even has the original fridge
is supposedly seaworthy-ish as in she will float and run.
It has the dinette table interior configuration
has been recently serviced but the boat is in very bad cosmetic condition.
The motors and wells are filthy as are the outdrives
The canvas convertible top looks pretty ok
Every square inch of cloth and interior is stained, there is cracking in the gel coat all around the perimeter of the front deck
some cracking on the inside corners of the lower deck
glass windows look ok as does the aluminum
Comes with an old trailer that needs to be restored too.

Plan:
-I will strip every bit of wire and mechanicals out of the boat, re-power it and re-do all the mechanical and electrical systems. Therefore I am not particularly concerned with the current health of the motor and drives. I may rebuild the motors and outdrives but expect to at a minimum to a complete overhaul of them.
-I will sand/repair all the fiberglass issues from the bottom up and apply all new paint or gel coat but am hoping not to separate the decks from the hull.
-I will be getting a survey before buying the boat as it is not local to me. I will sea trial it prior to writing a check.

Questions:
Can someone give me some pointers on what to look for regarding structural issues. Specifically for the decks and hull. I believe Bertrams had all glass stringers but that it is important to make sure they have not come loose from the hull. Or am I just nuts and if I am gong to refit from top to bottom do I want to re-glass the stringers no matter what?

What else should I be looking for that would make this particular boat a bad/good restoration project?

What kind of a range is a boat like this worth?( original, fresh water, running, but filthy and ratty).
Under $3,000
$3000-$5000
$5000-10,000
$10k+

I know these are chevy truck motors. Are the mercruiser outdrives quality pieces when rebuilt?

Can these boats be converted to a closed loop cooling system? I will be running in salt water off the NC coast.

Be gentle please
Chris
Cary NC

[Ttownthomas]

OK. I found threads on here explaining that the stringers have a tendency to delaminate from the hull over time. Is there good access to inspect the stringers on a B25? Or does it take pounding on the hull to figure it out?

[John Swick]

Don't waste any time or $$ on that old iron.
Check the stringers with a scope through the bilge.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Good luck with your build and remember the golden rule...….
Figure out what you think you're going to spend and how long it's all going to take, then atleast double it.
Looking forward to your updates.
Cheers,
John

[Ttownthomas]

Do you mean the motors? As in repower with something different? or Did you mean rebuilt long blocks of the same vintage.

[John Swick]

Yes.
Performance and fuel economy of new technology single i/o or o/b options will make you giddy.
Might be slighly more $$ than screwin' around with that old gear, but that's kinda the idea, no screwin' around with old gear....at the most inopportune times.
Sounds like you're prepared to go deep with the rest of the project anyways.

[CamB25]

Good luck! Since you haven't bought the boat yet, here are a few items to check in pre-purchase inspection:

Pull the tank hatch...OEM tank? Fiberglass? If glass, you'll probably replace due to ethanol concerns
Check the wood in the cuddy ceiling around the forward deck hatch and vents. This area is subject to water intrusion which will rot the plywood. Pain to fix upside down.
You can check stringers in the bilge and fuel area for delamination. Not a big deal to repair.
Check the gel coat for crazing....spider cracking everywhere. This is a big deal...will require grinding down to glass and reconstructing the substrate for paint. Lots of work.
Check for signs of backyard structural modifications. Take pictures of weird stuff and post here.
Jump on the deck...check for soft spots
Closely inspect the chines and lifting strakes for damage. Might be difficult if the boat has bottom paint.
Ignore the 250s and outdrives...you will want to re-power with modern drives

I have completely rebuilt and reconstructed my B25. There is nothing on these boats that is not "fixable" with enough time and money.

Buy it as cheap as possible. I paid $2500 for mine in 2009. almost 100% original, not running (who cares) and on an old trailer.

One warning. If you pay someone to rebuild the boat expect the cost to exceed $100k. If you want to do it yourself, Plan on $99k. Also, I think it is absolutely essential to have an inside location to work the boat. I tried to work mine in my driveway for 6 years before I finally found a good inside work location.

Cam

[Ttownthomas]

Cam, if all the OEM tanks were fiberglass then this one has been replaced. It's welded so I'm assuming aluminum. I'll post some of the pictures I have later this morning

The B25 will fit in my garage once the window frame is removed. I don't think I could do this outside.

[Ttownthomas]

UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_15ed by ttownthomas, on Flickr

[CamB25]

Looks like metal to me. You'll probably want to pull it and have it tested for piece of mind.

[Ttownthomas]

Will it wiggle out once the batteries are out or does the deck have to come up?

[ktm_2000]

The fuel tank hatch on different B25 models was either 1 piece for the 4 cyl models and 2 piece for the 6 cyl models. from your pic, it looks like you have only 1/2 of the 2 piece model fuel tank hatch opened.

you should be able to take the other 1/2 up and get at the fuel tank.

In my case I had stringer damage forward under the drop down section on the port side. I am not sure what percentage of the B25 have had the same damage as my hull. If one were to check to see if it was the same as my hull, you could put one of those 4-6" circular inspection ports outside of the stringers and another set inside the drop down and use mirrors or some type of flexible inspection system to look further.

Hopefully your hull doesn't need the work that mine did.

[CamB25]

I eliminated the tank hatch in my re-imagined B25. I know where it is, and where to cut, if needed. Of course, at my pace, it may not see any fuel for a looong time! I'm in rigging hell now. It's fun, but it takes alot of time when every bit and piece is a custom fit.

https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/-6 ... ZLhE5Z845j

[Ttownthomas]

Looking good

[Waytooslow]

I am currently in the middle of a B-25 project. In fact I am waiting on two new fuel tanks to be shipped to me at roughly $700 per x 2. Mine had been replaced with aluminum in the past but they had holes in them.

As to cost of the boat--my boat cost the same as a decent bar tab to buy (eBay special) but I had to buy a new trailer to bring it home which was 1500 miles away and I decided to have a hauler bring it-- so all in about 4.5K on my doorstep.

For a rehab budget to give you some idea I recently finished up a brand X 25' Center Console complete rebuild. It was an 1987 model that needed stringers deck, fuel tank, transom, top cap repair, re-gelled the bottom, new deck. enlarged the console to put a head in it and rewired and re-rigged every inch. I figured that I had about 13K in the fiberglass work and another 12K in rigging bits (rub rail, steering cleats wiring deck hatches pumps etc.). I really shopped hard and bought a few used and surplus items to hold the cost down. I also bought and rebuilt a trailer for 5K and found some good used motors for 4K that took another 4K to fix, hang and clean up including lower units and paint. So in the end about 40K for a really nice boat that looks new.

My B-25 is not in nearly as rough a condition as that prior boat (and apparently what others are starting with) and my stingers have not delaminated. I am also not looking or a showpiece-- I like stuff nice (why I do projects) but the B-25 does not need to look new--more basic and rugged. I will add that the B-25's are really very well built boats and the difference is readily observable once you open them up. So my plan is a general clean up including new paint on the outside and filling the I/O holes and putting a bracket on as a card carrying member of team outboard. I am also going to shorten the engine hatch and rebuild the deck hatch and plug many holes below the waterline and above. I have about a 10K budget on the fiberglass work and paint (planning on rolling and tipping as much as possible) mapped out. I expect the rigging will be about the same as the other boat except I will have to buy a bracket which I am budgeting about 3K on. Then just motors and my ideal power would be a couple of 200 mercs. Hope that helps.

[ktm_2000]

I'm not sure how long the other folks who are re-doing their B25s have own/run their hulls prior to their projects but I wanted to share that I've owned my B25 for 15 years with I/Os and love the way that the boat rides but just couldn't handle constantly fixing the motors. My experience with the hull has been quite good, she has got me home in some nasty conditions and allowed me to fish when it has been rough out as well as it is pretty economical with @2nmpg with the 4 cyl I/Os, has plenty of room to fish 4 guys, can make offshore runs if needed. To me the work I am putting in is worth the effort to get the ride.

For the conversion project, Cost wise I will be in @40k with a brand new suzuki 300 and Simrad electronics with me doing all the fiberglass work. In terms of rating the project 1-10, It won't be done to 9.5/10 the level of Cam's project but won't be dog ugly either, I'm trying for 6/7. Yes I am going to put in a stupid # of hours and if I payed myself $100/hr of a boat yard labor costs it probably wouldn't be worth it but I couldn't afford the alternative of 100k plus for a comparable new boat.

[Ttownthomas]

Thats great info. Thanks. I have a thing for old motors but breakdowns on the water are another thing altogether