Wiring Diagram

[mikepelham]

Well I ran my new Bertram up from Avalon to LBI and it was a success! First time on a Bertram and I fell in love. The one motor has some knocking but it is not consistent which makes me think it could be timing or points. The owner ran 30W oil but I was thinking of using 15-50 for the 454's. The wiring is an absolute disaster, nothing works. I was debating this winter of tearing our old wiring and starting fresh. Any comments? And does anyone have a wiring diagram for one of these. There are so many cut wires it is amazing.

[CaptPatrick]

Mike,

As discussed here before, the old factory wiring and all modifications made by previous owners should just be scrapped in most cases... Original wiring diagrams are about equally worthless.

You're better off to make your own diagram, consistent with your onboard electrical equipment, & pre-plan for options that may not already be aboard, but could be. Things like a generator, additional lighting, additional pumps, etc. These "not onboard yet" items will have basic wiring runs made and be actually tied into your distribution panel with the breakers labeled as "Spare".

Label all new wiring runs, both inside the electrical distribution panel, wherever they re-immerge after being concealed, & near the point of connection to the device. This will save a lot of time somewhere down the road when tracing a particular wire & not having to deal with a multimeter just to check continuity to identify the two ends of the same wire.

Formalize your diagram, after all wiring is completed, and print several copies. Keep one copy handy onboard, one copy in your boat files at home, & one copy sealed into a ziplock inside if the distribution panel.

Nigel Calder's Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Manual will give you all the know how needed to do the job...

Other books of interest can be had through my onsite Book Store. I do get a small commission on books purchased from Amazon, if the buyer's entry into Amazon originated through my book store section. Ain't much, but better than nothing...

Br,

Patrick

[Bruce]

I havn't seen Nigels book, but most of what I've seen is enough to get most begginers in trouble with mass confusion.

There have been a few good threads here regarding wiring and how to start and the layouts and planning. I know I've done a few, but I hate typing the same stuff over and over.

If our guru of Texas tells me how to do a sticky, (get your minds out of the gutter) I'll post some stuff.

[mikepelham]

Bruce:

I have read through manu of your informative posts and am certain I may need to use your expertise as I have A Ton of work to do. I did try searching but my firewall does not alllow results, it is a quirk. I will try at home.

Thanks

[John F.]

Mike-

Bruce posted a great explanation on rewiring basics on 10/22/2004 that I printed out and have in front of me. My B31 is in need of rewiring also. If you can't find Bruce's post, I can fax it to you.

John F.

[CaptPatrick]

Mike,

John is referring to a post made on the old board: http://www.bertram31.com/bb/bbs.cgi?noframes;read=58442

The thread starts with a post from Bob S entitled Battery Chargers: http://www.bertram31.com/bb/bbs.cgi?noframes;read=58392

Bruce's post is as follows:

Wiring in general is easy.
On new wiring a diagram is not needed.

1. Sit down and make a list of the DC and AC devises you will have. Check it three times and then again. If you think you will need something later plan for it now.

2. Write down next to each item what the current draw will be.

3. You now have the size panel you need and the size breakers you need.

4. Other than cabin lites and outlets, don't piggy back circuits to save MONEY.

5. Use tinned wire, heat shrink and sealed lugs.

6. Determine where the panel and devises are to be mounted.

7. Run cables from point A to point B.

8. Bundle cables securly and watch for possible chaffing.

9. As UV said run a #2 red and black(is this politicaly correct now a days?)from the feed battery thru a battery switch(red only)to the panel for the DC.

10. Determine where your shore power inlet is and run a three wire #10 cable from it to the panel. #10 will handle 30 amps. If you have a gen set run the appropriate size cable from the gen set location to the panel. Again securing.

11. If you are going to use a zinc saver between the ac ground and bonding system, figure out where it will go and install as wiring directions tell you.

12. At each device that may need replacing over the years, leave at least a foot of wire curled up. Running it tight then cutting to replace a pump can leave the wire short and then you will have to splice a section in.

13. At the panel leave enough to open and close panel if needed.

14. Wire size and amperage:
#16/ 10 amps
#14/ 15 amps
#12/ 20 amps
#10/ 30 amps
#8/ 40 amps
#6/ 50 amps

15. For those with a seperate house battery to charge under way it can be done two ways.
a. Use an isolator from one engine to the house battery.
b. Use a two bank isolator, one feed from each engine to the isolator.

Use the appropriate size isolator and wire size for your altenator output.

If you do not use an isolator, the engine can pull starting current from the house battery thru the smaller charging wire and burn it up.

The connections should not be made battery to battery because if the house battery goes down, it will pull voltage from the engine batteries and they could discharge also.

Isolators use diodes which allow current to flow in only one direction.

16. If you have a device that pulls 16 amps, don't use #14. Always go to the next size up.
The same goes for a breaker.
What ever the breaker is rated for, use that size wire.

17. If you have a devise that pulls 15 amps, don't use a 15 amp breaker. Use a 20 and the appropriate size wire.

18. If you don't want to use a seperate breaker for each electronic on the bridge, measure all loads and run the appropriate size wire and breaker to a buss bar on the bridge along with a ground the same size. Mark the breaker bridge electronics.
Tie each device to the buss bar with its own fuse that comes with each devise.

19. A breaker is there to protect wire from getting hot and burning up in an overload along with the devise.

20. Always use a battery switch between engine and battery.

21. Tie bilge pump auto circuits to battery feed side on house switch and use a fuse for each pump.
This way if you turn your house battery switch off, you still have the auto circuit hot.

22. Tie battery charger wires to feed side of battery switches not to batteries. Only thing on battery posts should be the main feed cables.

Don't cut corners and be cheap. Doing it right costs money but will last a life time.

Br,

Patrick

[Rawleigh]

Mike: I have a wiring diagram for my '66 if you want it. Send me your email.

[Mikey]

Mike,
Bruce posted the lengthy item that Patrick copied above just as I was creating my wiring diagram. My boat had nothing in it but memories so I was creating all new. Using his instructions and Nigel's and several others I started. First, patience. Start with a battery and work from there. You will restart many times. Don't scratch things out and draw over the scratchouts. Start fresh every time you find a problem. I divided my project into several separate sheets: house D.C., house A.C., bonding, bilge pumps, charging. For the engines I use the Cummins service manual. I copied these sheets and took them to the boat for reference while working. Didn't have to sit and noodle out again things I had already done.
When you're done with the diagrams to your satisfaction get someone else with knowledge and preferably a Bertram to go over your work. Bruce and Chiles reviewed mine and saved me a bunch of money and embarassment. Now, with a completed diagram in hand visualize where things will go and measure lengths, add 10% for dumb s#*t moves and make a list of components. Now, unless you're rich and careless with your money stay away from West and the other retailers. There are several internet sources for wire, connecters and other components that will be muuuuuuuch cheaper. Let me know and I'll send you Chiles list of internet sellers with my additions.
HAve fun

[gplume]

Mike-

Go for it! I had as imilar "rats nest" and just did mine, and am not sorry I did. Agree with Capt Pat, get Nigel's book. Bruce''s guide is very good (wish I had seen it before i started). Mikey set me straight on West Marine...you will get ripped off beyond belief if you buy your wire from them. Numerous online outlets...way cheaper. About the only thing I can add is that the liberal use of terminal strips can help break the sections into "bite size chunks". Ditch the Federal Pacific Breaker box that comes from the factory ( I thnink..mine had one). I will also echo...better to over size than skimp. Lots of amps at 12 volts.

Best Regards
Giff

[JC]

How many days on average to do a complete rewiring?? I have a guy who ive seen here that does a good job but he wants to give me a rate per day.. I will negotiate amount of days... Thanks for your input...

JC

[Bruce]

If all the wiring is ripped out already, an experienced wiring tech with all parts on hand and a written plan should be able to do all AC/DC wiring in 4 to 5 days.

[JC]

THat sounds right... I was expecting to hear about a week (7 days) .. the guy here is telling me it would take him around 15 days which sounds like way too much time for me if I give him a written plan ...

JC